These three either can co-exist or explode into a combustible confetti of rainbows, hate speeches, etc.
With Lawrence messaging me this today:
Quote:
This infuriates me. An atheist transgender vlogger criticized a faith healer on her channel and the faith healer responded by calling her out for being transgender and taking her to court for all other sorts of bullshit claims. The vlogger's channel name is ThinkStephtically.
It has gotten me thinking on what we, as a community feel about all this mudslinging.
I do ask that this discussion be civilized, as it is quite the hot button topic in the media these days.
Posted: Wed May 20, 2015 8:50 pm
Oh boy I was waiting for this topic. Disclaimer: I do not look down on anyone of any background who has chosen any kind of religious path and it does good for them. I do how ever look down on those who actively seek out and destroy others for not conforming to said path.
I grew up in a Christian family and was raised Christian and boy did it take its toll on me. I have a lot of complicated, pent up, and angry feelings because of the turmoil these things have caused me in my life. We definitely did not go to a "nice" church. I didn't realize until recently this year just how ******** up it was and how much its effected me but that's a little off topic. I grew up being told anything remotely gay or 'queer' was wrong, disgusting, and that those people would go to hell unless they became straight. I also used to think not 4-5 years ago that it was a choice to be gay, which caused TONS of issues for me. Since I was around 7-8 years old I never fully felt like a 'girl' i just kind of 'was' because what else was there? I clearly wasn't a boy, according to what I was told. I'd often have thoughts especially in middle school of admiring girls and finding them more attractive than boys at times and because I was so in denial I could be anything but straight at all I thought it was just normal because "girls can be like that" (?????)
Gender was an entirely different can of worms, and bless one of my friends who came out to me as FtM and I told him at the time that I didn't accept it and would call him female pronouns and that it was an insult to god. We still talk and he's forgiven me and I'm one of his biggest supporters now but god it still haunts me I said and believed things like that.
I'm disgusted by how much of my life I'd spent being a biggot, and then had to spend trying to find myself because I was angry at god, and slowly realizing the turmoil LGBTQ people faced as well as having increasingly weird gender feels. Now that I've grown up, broken away and made my own decisions, religion is definitely NOT for me and I am 100% agnostic. I've been there and done that, and even though it can be a good thing for people and bring people together and such it's hard for me to see past all the damage that has and will continue to be caused by radical religious people all over the world.
I don't like the fact that I can only be out to my mother and brother because if my dad knew half of anything about me he would probably disown me entirely and my moms support of me could turn into an ugly and potentially violent divorce.
Anyway, I've seen it work for others. I know LGBTQ people who are active christians and its fine for them and I think that's great. I just wish things were radically different and everyone could just be chill about beliefs and not stake so many on the hate and marginalization of others.
My religious history both helped and stunted me as far as figuring out my identity goes. It's quite a weird one, to be sure. I was baptized Episcopalian (aka Anglican), but a lot of my early memories of religion are muddled and sort of blend together into a ******** of different churches, temples, chapels, beliefs, rules, restrictions, philosophies, and so on. My parents were soul-searchers, my mother more than my dad, and by the time I was thirteen I had been Baptist, Methodist, Assembly-of-God, visited a Greek Orthodox church (I think? Could have been Jesuit or one of the outskirting Catholic denominations), Mennonite, Messianic, and then, finally, Jewish. My dad's parents were both Methodist and my mother's parents were both Catholic, although we later discovered that we were bona fide Jewish by maternal heritage.
As such, I was a practicing Conservadox Jew for most of my adolescent and early adult life, with Messianic and Mennonite Christianity being the second and third most memorable practices I've been a part of. Because of all the consistent inconsistencies when I was a child, you can imagine how confusing it was for little Lawrence. Add onto the everchanging house rules the unmedicated (or way too medicated) OCD and the gender dysphoria that kind of exploded like a bomb in my early teens, and it's no surprise that I was a very conflicted little freak until recently, when I finally got the gumption to do research, self-examine, and understand two things: One, that I am an atheist and have been for much longer than I admitted it to myself, and two, that I'm not psychotic, I'm not mentally deficient or handicapped -- I'm transgender.
TRIGGER WARNING emotion_jawdrop
As for religious LGBT... Well, I feel truly sorry for them, to say the least, and honestly feel that they would do much better to confront the reality of what their chosen religion's doctrine has to say about them than cherry-pick so they can ride the fantasy wagon that has caused so many of their fellows to kill themselves, hate themselves, commit or destroy themselves both physically and mentally for fear of an invisible being or beings. Religion and faith in the supernatural has done more harm than good to everyone in the full run -- let's be fair -- and I'm honestly a bit of an anti-theist in the sense that I hope it dies quickly.
For the record, though, I don't consider religious people to be automatically stupid, corrupt, or evil in the slightest (although some undeniably are). I consider the majority of them innocently misled and don't have a problem with them believing whatever they want, as long as they don't use it as an excuse to condemn others or vote away their Human rights.
Update/More details on the ThinkStephtically situation: The afore-mentioned faith healer is one of those "Unification Church" people, and in his critique he not only called her a charlatan and accused her of misrepresenting him and slandering his practice and abusing copyright; he also called her a liar and used her old name repeatedly and deliberately while rebuking her. He got a bunch of other people involved as well, and they called her a liar for presenting as a woman (rather than a transwoman or a biological male). She has a GoFundMe set up for court expenses, because it looks like the asshat is legitimately planning to take her to court.
Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 5:53 pm
/sigh
I do not have anything too relevant to add here, as my thoughts on the matter have been covered. I hate how religion is used as a reason to treat another person differently. Living in the Bible belt, I see all sorts of approaches. Luckily, while I have found people who openly disagree with LGBTetc., I have not personally met any people who took the extreme approach to things.
My family for the most part believes in God, but is not overly active in the community. That said, everyone in my family is accepting of my uncle (who is gay) and me, for those who know.
I think religions cover up a big part of my life/interests, but I usually tend to keep that and my gender identity apart from each other. I was baptized into Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland and was able to officially quit it when I turned 18. My mother is a member of Finnish Orthodox/ church and holds some conservative beliefs but isn't being a nazi about it, not often.
I haven't been able to figure out my dad though, being "namely Christian" ("nimikristitty") is pretty common here, meaning that you belong to a church because of family ties but that doesn't actually tell anything about if they're religious or what they believe. I remember when I was kindergarten age my dad taught me how to draw five point stars like pentagrams and told me I'm supposed to write small letter "t" like an inverted cross. But when I was a teen we came along a man preaching on the streets and back then I thought those people are ridiculous but my father stopped me and said "we have a moment, lets listen to him" and the man told his stuff, my father staring somewhere into distance not actually listening Jesus-saves-you rambling and we moved on: "You don't have to believe that stuff but you see, it made his day better. He thanked and blessed us, so it's not too much if we spare some of our time, right?" my dad told me as we walked away.
Right now I'm studying theology and I'm really interested about different beliefs and religions, myths and cultures. I remember my mother figuratively hitting me with a Bible when I told her I don't want to take part in the "Finnish confirmation camp" /Lutheran Church ritual youth camp stuff when I was 15 and then hitting me with Bible again when I tried to explain my transmasculinity to her couple of times.
Nowadays if anyone dares to bring up the argument "Bible says there are only men and women" I'll let them know that actually in the creation myth human was genderless before the creation of a woman, it's plain as a day if you look up the Hebrew version, which should held the greatest authority over the translations of Bible anyway.
I want religion, spirituality and LGBT to coexist, or infact: I want them to be irrelevant to each other, casual. And yeah I often feel that I'm in an environment where it plays out like that. None of my student friends batted an eyelid when I came out to them as trans, all of them were really supportive "despite" being religious (Christian, Buddhism + other) or agnostic or atheists. I like that it's not a question of your religion and I feel that's how it should be too.
Also I don't know my own religious/spiritual identity, I don't want to label myself that much anymore. I haven't been a Christian since childhood, if ever, and I have been having philosophically satanistic/atheist phases, I'm drawn into old paganism of my land but more than anything I want to learn about religions/traditions and I feel like I can do that best if I personally "don't take a side". I don't even want to say I'm an atheist because I'm not sure if I truly understand/fill in the definition myself. If someone says there is a god and it's an absolute truth, I want them to question it. And if someone says there's no way gods are real and all humans should accept that, I want them to question their reality. I'm never satisfied when it comes to world views, simply because I think there's not just "one truth" for some chosen people, more like there might not be truth at all for anyone.
Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 10:11 pm
Riivaaja
But when I was a teen we came along a man preaching on the streets and back then I thought those people are ridiculous but my father stopped me and said "we have a moment, lets listen to him" and the man told his stuff, my father staring somewhere into distance not actually listening Jesus-saves-you rambling and we moved on: "You don't have to believe that stuff but you see, it made his day better. He thanked and blessed us, so it's not too much if we spare some of our time, right?" my dad told me as we walked away.
That's really cool and it's a nice perspective to have. Street preachers don't usually bother me too much -- they're more amusing and sad than anything, and I try to steer clear of them when I see them -- but my sister and her classmates had a rather troubling encounter with one on her college campus. The preacher was spewing all kinds of accusations, calling my sister a "Jewish whore" and her Muslim friend a terrorist. I have no qualms with people preaching on the street, just... really?
Then again, it's the USA. We're cursed with, as Valenas mentioned, the Bible Belt, as well as Westboro Baptist Church and their now-Supreme-Court-sanctioned hate speech.
As for bible camps, my siblings and I attended our grandmother's Methodist church's "Vacation Bible School" from when we were very little to even after we began practicing Judaism. The idea was that it made my grandmother happy and was an educational opportunity, while also giving us a chance to spend a week with her during the summer. Unfortunately, we don't participate at all anymore, because the last time we went together to the VBS, my little brother was bullied and slandered by the church authorities, and in the end my grandmother believed the authorities and sent her own grandson packing. My mother was furious, of course, and took us all home early together.
I volunteered one more time after that by myself, but... Well, she's always been religious, but I think she's gone a bit crazy as well. To be honest, I largely blame Christian TV, which is all she watches now that my grandfather's dead. When she saw my dragon-pet (if you haven't heard of them, they're these), she started telling me about something on TV about how a paralyzed boy was wearing a witchcraft bracelet "a lot like that" and that some missionaries healed him by cutting off the bracelet. She then said outright later that day that she wanted to cut its tail off. Oddly enough, despite her strangeness, she didn't seem too bothered when I visibly wore my binder both around her house and in public, but she has made it clear that she will not put any of my recent pictures on the wall with her other grandchildren until I look like "myself" again. This includes more a ban on cosplay and costume than gender-passing, though; I haven't come out to her yet and I don't plan to. As much as I dislike the things she says and believes about the world and people, I love her enough to let her die thinking my soul has a chance.
That's really disgusting, sorry your sister and her friends had to hear something like that! I really dislike it when people use religion or a deity to justify their hostility and bad decisions. My problems are not with gods or religions (whether new or institutionalized), it's that there always seem to be folks who twist around things until they're ugly and deformed.
I'd like to share a song in this thread, if anyone reading this is highly religious, I think it might be somewhat provoking, but I would say it's a song about misuse of religion which matches a bit how I feel about things.
As for LGBT, I remembered that some churches also hold special "rainbow masses" ("sateenkaarimessu") from time to time with LGBT themes + discussion. I think it's pretty nice, even though I don't partake myself, but maybe it helps to turn the tide of "church dislikes gays" thinking.
Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 4:27 pm
Riivaaja
That's really disgusting, sorry your sister and her friends had to hear something like that! I really dislike it when people use religion or a deity to justify their hostility and bad decisions. My problems are not with gods or religions (whether new or institutionalized), it's that there always seem to be folks who twist around things until they're ugly and deformed.
I'd like to share a song in this thread, if anyone reading this is highly religious, I think it might be somewhat provoking, but I would say it's a song about misuse of religion which matches a bit how I feel about things.
As for LGBT, I remembered that some churches also hold special "rainbow masses" ("sateenkaarimessu") from time to time with LGBT themes + discussion. I think it's pretty nice, even though I don't partake myself, but maybe it helps to turn the tide of "church dislikes gays" thinking.
I love that song! "Hell in a Handbasket" is also a favorite of mine by Voltaire. It's so upbeat and jazzy. XD
That's really interesting about the rainbow masses. I suppose it's a nice gesture for LGBT who still want to cling to what they were raised with, and I can certainly understand why they would want to. There are a few megachurches here in the States that also welcome most (if not all) of the LGBT community. In all honesty, though, I feel very uncomfortable with the idea of people cherry-picking, let alone completely revamping the face of their religion so they can say their church isn't a discriminating one. I liken it to the analogy of a bully getting in trouble and, the next day, coming to school in an MLP hoodie or toting a "No H8" banner so he can say, "See? I'm nice! I'm not a bully! You can be friends with me again!"
In other words, it feels hollow and two-faced. People should admit that their religion is what it is and should definitely admit when they've been stupid or cruel, rather than completely restructure and misrepresent their religion to suit how they want to feel about themselves. I don't like being lied to, I guess, and if God is an absolute being, he shouldn't change his mind so damn much, LOL.
I will wade in with my perspective on things. I was forcefully raised Catholic but ignored pretty much all of it. I went to church to sing in the choir, once I was old enough I refused to go any more. Despite being Catholic on paper I didn't know what I was in terms of belief but needless to say I settled on Heathen in the end, more specifically Lokean (a heathen follower of Loki).
When I was growing up the term transgender didn't exist as such. (Yes I am showing my age here). My father wasn't really approachable on the subject of religion and my mother on the other hand forced me to go Sunday school and her answer to everything that didn't agree with her interpretation of Catholicism was "it's not God's will" and all that bull crap. No offense to any Catholic guild members meant,I am speaking from the perspective of dealing with my mother. When I tried to mention that God made me wrong, that I should have a boy's body, I was beaten. Not to mention she told my doctor at the time I was a compulsive liar and attention seeker. I think she said it because of whatever religious reasons but yeah, Catholic church has no room for anyone that is not heteronormative.
On the other hand when I left home at 19 and joined the navy I had more time to find myself both in terms of who and what I am, the literal sense and the spiritual sense. During those sea trips I found my spiritual self and put myself on the path of a Lokean Heathen. I didn't initially come out as Trans but I didn't need to, most of the pagan community here in the UK doesn't give a rat's arse about gender identity or orientation providing you don't break any laws. For the most part I have found that the friends I made within the pagan community have been completely supportive of my transition, and the ones who are not I don't associate with anymore. Maybe I am lucky but the pagan community seems to be more accepting of the LGBT crowd however there are still the haters and bigots though that will be true of any religion. Though I get more stick for being Lokean than I do for being trans. I guess pagan religions are more accepting of the LGBT community than most faiths because we have gay, lesbian, bisexual, genderless and gender bending deities across the various paths and pantheons.
Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:02 pm
I hate when people throw religion in the face of those they see 'doomed' just because the bible claims that so many things are sins. I hope the vlogger can handle the court and least call out the faith healer for whatever wrong he's done. Its only fair 3nodding
= Though I'm open to religion (I'm agnostic) I've yet to experience a good person who follows. My mother follow Catholicism, along with many of my family and each time genders come up or sexuality. Its always the same. If you're not straight you're sin, if you're not going by your birth gender- you're doomed. But I can be saved. I just gotta stop finding girls attractive the same way I find males attractive, I gotta just accept the fact that my birth gender is what it is and I should stop trying to change. I've had it shoved down my throat at an early age, which made it difficult for me to openly tell my mother I was bisexual. Even when I did such, its always brushed under the rug and my mother always refers to me as straight cause god forbid I would never date a girl (when I have in the past) and since I'm with a guy as of recent. I'm straight. It wasn't until recent that I met a co-worker of hers that religion was once more thrown in my face and I was told I still have a chance to be saved. This woman verbally attacked me in front of my mother about my sexuality, about how there was no such thing as anything besides straight and gay and that religion could save me. For the first time, I had to defend myself against a friend that my mother sided with. Pretty horrible experience seeing how it left me in tears and all my mother said to me after the ordeal was that my tears are the sign that god wants to save me and I should stop shutting him out. As if such a experience was to suddenly make me turn to religion. After all that, I refuse to be near the woman, even look her way or even acknowledge her when she's within the house. Probably a sucky way to go about it but its better then being attacked and dealing with another bible thumper. As much as I would love to be more open to my family about my gender, about how I'm not like those within our family. They've taught me that being silent is better then anything cause if you aren't going by the usual boy/girl you're not accepted and if anything religion could always fix/save you sweatdrop But, I've heard small stories of actual people who aren't so horrible when it comes to religion, who would accept you no matter what and help. Small faith in humanity but I've yet to meet anyone or even befriend someone like that. so is become more of a lost cause.
I hate when people throw religion in the face of those they see 'doomed' just because the bible claims that so many things are sins. I hope the vlogger can handle the court and least call out the faith healer for whatever wrong he's done. Its only fair 3nodding
= Though I'm open to religion (I'm agnostic) I've yet to experience a good person who follows. My mother follow Catholicism, along with many of my family and each time genders come up or sexuality. Its always the same. If you're not straight you're sin, if you're not going by your birth gender- you're doomed. But I can be saved. I just gotta stop finding girls attractive the same way I find males attractive, I gotta just accept the fact that my birth gender is what it is and I should stop trying to change. I've had it shoved down my throat at an early age, which made it difficult for me to openly tell my mother I was bisexual. Even when I did such, its always brushed under the rug and my mother always refers to me as straight cause god forbid I would never date a girl (when I have in the past) and since I'm with a guy as of recent. I'm straight. It wasn't until recent that I met a co-worker of hers that religion was once more thrown in my face and I was told I still have a chance to be saved. This woman verbally attacked me in front of my mother about my sexuality, about how there was no such thing as anything besides straight and gay and that religion could save me. For the first time, I had to defend myself against a friend that my mother sided with. Pretty horrible experience seeing how it left me in tears and all my mother said to me after the ordeal was that my tears are the sign that god wants to save me and I should stop shutting him out. As if such a experience was to suddenly make me turn to religion. After all that, I refuse to be near the woman, even look her way or even acknowledge her when she's within the house. Probably a sucky way to go about it but its better then being attacked and dealing with another bible thumper. As much as I would love to be more open to my family about my gender, about how I'm not like those within our family. They've taught me that being silent is better then anything cause if you aren't going by the usual boy/girl you're not accepted and if anything religion could always fix/save you sweatdrop But, I've heard small stories of actual people who aren't so horrible when it comes to religion, who would accept you no matter what and help. Small faith in humanity but I've yet to meet anyone or even befriend someone like that. so is become more of a lost cause.
Christ on ice im so sorry you had to deal with all that. :/ And I'm really with you on the small slivers of hope. My mom, though she doesn't understand everything has come to realize what I and my friends go through when it comes to gender and doesn't believe that being anything that isn't straight is against god but she's still trying to be a devout christian. (I honestly think its what keeps her hanging in there, considering living with my dogmatic dad is a nightmare but thats another story) I remember being on the phone once and she was talking to me about a friend of hers from church whos child 'crossplays' characters at anime cons and it made her wonder if that could potentially be an early sign of a different gender identity, similar to what I did and she was like 'i just want other parents to know, and find ways to help comfort their kids' and i was just liek WOW GOSH i wish more christians were like you mom!!! So I largely hate religion, in the dogmatic sense anyway. But yea....small and few ahaha (sorry i got way rambly there)
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:05 am
sigishooter
Glitched Existence
I hate when people throw religion in the face of those they see 'doomed' just because the bible claims that so many things are sins. I hope the vlogger can handle the court and least call out the faith healer for whatever wrong he's done. Its only fair 3nodding
= Though I'm open to religion (I'm agnostic) I've yet to experience a good person who follows. My mother follow Catholicism, along with many of my family and each time genders come up or sexuality. Its always the same. If you're not straight you're sin, if you're not going by your birth gender- you're doomed. But I can be saved. I just gotta stop finding girls attractive the same way I find males attractive, I gotta just accept the fact that my birth gender is what it is and I should stop trying to change. I've had it shoved down my throat at an early age, which made it difficult for me to openly tell my mother I was bisexual. Even when I did such, its always brushed under the rug and my mother always refers to me as straight cause god forbid I would never date a girl (when I have in the past) and since I'm with a guy as of recent. I'm straight. It wasn't until recent that I met a co-worker of hers that religion was once more thrown in my face and I was told I still have a chance to be saved. This woman verbally attacked me in front of my mother about my sexuality, about how there was no such thing as anything besides straight and gay and that religion could save me. For the first time, I had to defend myself against a friend that my mother sided with. Pretty horrible experience seeing how it left me in tears and all my mother said to me after the ordeal was that my tears are the sign that god wants to save me and I should stop shutting him out. As if such a experience was to suddenly make me turn to religion. After all that, I refuse to be near the woman, even look her way or even acknowledge her when she's within the house. Probably a sucky way to go about it but its better then being attacked and dealing with another bible thumper. As much as I would love to be more open to my family about my gender, about how I'm not like those within our family. They've taught me that being silent is better then anything cause if you aren't going by the usual boy/girl you're not accepted and if anything religion could always fix/save you sweatdrop But, I've heard small stories of actual people who aren't so horrible when it comes to religion, who would accept you no matter what and help. Small faith in humanity but I've yet to meet anyone or even befriend someone like that. so is become more of a lost cause.
Christ on ice im so sorry you had to deal with all that. :/ And I'm really with you on the small slivers of hope. My mom, though she doesn't understand everything has come to realize what I and my friends go through when it comes to gender and doesn't believe that being anything that isn't straight is against god but she's still trying to be a devout christian. (I honestly think its what keeps her hanging in there, considering living with my dogmatic dad is a nightmare but thats another story) I remember being on the phone once and she was talking to me about a friend of hers from church whos child 'crossplays' characters at anime cons and it made her wonder if that could potentially be an early sign of a different gender identity, similar to what I did and she was like 'i just want other parents to know, and find ways to help comfort their kids' and i was just liek WOW GOSH i wish more christians were like you mom!!! So I largely hate religion, in the dogmatic sense anyway. But yea....small and few ahaha (sorry i got way rambly there)
That's only the tipping point. At one point my mom had me put in a room full of older religious woman who demonized being anything but straight in order to scare me. Not just me, but my lesbian sister too. as if that was going to change us. like these old people were trying to show us the light of god and to get away from satan cause god forbid. Satan is tied to being gay or anything less then straight and so on. It wasn't cool cause the both of us had to literally swallow our pride and tears and sit there for a solid 30 minutes. Then they tried to get us to sign some paper that said we accepted god/bible and that as long as we live we won't straight. My sis did it (maybe to just get them to let us go) but when the paper was given to me I just handed back. As if I was going to sign something I wanted nothing to do with and its bad enough my father side of the family are always giving me bibles/little bibles every year for my birthday/holidays. lol i got quite the stash in my closet. I'm pretty sure Cross cosplay/Cosplay in general rarely lead to gender identity problems, right? Or am I too new to this to really understand? O_O;; cause through high school I knew girls who always dressed as boys for their cosplays and were 100% with their birth gender. So kinda sounds weird to assume. I don't hate religion as much, I try not to but with the bad experience I can physically feel my mind closing off to the idea of it. I know I've met wiccans/pegans who are fully accepting/apart of the LGBTA+ and I'm actually pretty good friends with a priestess who usually tells me that "When one religion shuts you out and does harm, another is waiting for you to go to them with open arms" and I kinda believe her. And Lately I been thinking of just going into that sort of thing. lol but I'm pretty sure if I dare convert to such my parents would have a heart attack cause they're all catholics. -don't apologize ^^
I hate when people throw religion in the face of those they see 'doomed' just because the bible claims that so many things are sins. I hope the vlogger can handle the court and least call out the faith healer for whatever wrong he's done. Its only fair 3nodding
= Though I'm open to religion (I'm agnostic) I've yet to experience a good person who follows. My mother follow Catholicism, along with many of my family and each time genders come up or sexuality. Its always the same. If you're not straight you're sin, if you're not going by your birth gender- you're doomed. But I can be saved. I just gotta stop finding girls attractive the same way I find males attractive, I gotta just accept the fact that my birth gender is what it is and I should stop trying to change. I've had it shoved down my throat at an early age, which made it difficult for me to openly tell my mother I was bisexual. Even when I did such, its always brushed under the rug and my mother always refers to me as straight cause god forbid I would never date a girl (when I have in the past) and since I'm with a guy as of recent. I'm straight. It wasn't until recent that I met a co-worker of hers that religion was once more thrown in my face and I was told I still have a chance to be saved. This woman verbally attacked me in front of my mother about my sexuality, about how there was no such thing as anything besides straight and gay and that religion could save me. For the first time, I had to defend myself against a friend that my mother sided with. Pretty horrible experience seeing how it left me in tears and all my mother said to me after the ordeal was that my tears are the sign that god wants to save me and I should stop shutting him out. As if such a experience was to suddenly make me turn to religion. After all that, I refuse to be near the woman, even look her way or even acknowledge her when she's within the house. Probably a sucky way to go about it but its better then being attacked and dealing with another bible thumper. As much as I would love to be more open to my family about my gender, about how I'm not like those within our family. They've taught me that being silent is better then anything cause if you aren't going by the usual boy/girl you're not accepted and if anything religion could always fix/save you sweatdrop But, I've heard small stories of actual people who aren't so horrible when it comes to religion, who would accept you no matter what and help. Small faith in humanity but I've yet to meet anyone or even befriend someone like that. so is become more of a lost cause.
Christ on ice im so sorry you had to deal with all that. :/ And I'm really with you on the small slivers of hope. My mom, though she doesn't understand everything has come to realize what I and my friends go through when it comes to gender and doesn't believe that being anything that isn't straight is against god but she's still trying to be a devout christian. (I honestly think its what keeps her hanging in there, considering living with my dogmatic dad is a nightmare but thats another story) I remember being on the phone once and she was talking to me about a friend of hers from church whos child 'crossplays' characters at anime cons and it made her wonder if that could potentially be an early sign of a different gender identity, similar to what I did and she was like 'i just want other parents to know, and find ways to help comfort their kids' and i was just liek WOW GOSH i wish more christians were like you mom!!! So I largely hate religion, in the dogmatic sense anyway. But yea....small and few ahaha (sorry i got way rambly there)
That's only the tipping point. At one point my mom had me put in a room full of older religious woman who demonized being anything but straight in order to scare me. Not just me, but my lesbian sister too. as if that was going to change us. like these old people were trying to show us the light of god and to get away from satan cause god forbid. Satan is tied to being gay or anything less then straight and so on. It wasn't cool cause the both of us had to literally swallow our pride and tears and sit there for a solid 30 minutes. Then they tried to get us to sign some paper that said we accepted god/bible and that as long as we live we won't straight. My sis did it (maybe to just get them to let us go) but when the paper was given to me I just handed back. As if I was going to sign something I wanted nothing to do with and its bad enough my father side of the family are always giving me bibles/little bibles every year for my birthday/holidays. lol i got quite the stash in my closet. I'm pretty sure Cross cosplay/Cosplay in general rarely lead to gender identity problems, right? Or am I too new to this to really understand? O_O;; cause through high school I knew girls who always dressed as boys for their cosplays and were 100% with their birth gender. So kinda sounds weird to assume. I don't hate religion as much, I try not to but with the bad experience I can physically feel my mind closing off to the idea of it. I know I've met wiccans/pegans who are fully accepting/apart of the LGBTA+ and I'm actually pretty good friends with a priestess who usually tells me that "When one religion shuts you out and does harm, another is waiting for you to go to them with open arms" and I kinda believe her. And Lately I been thinking of just going into that sort of thing. lol but I'm pretty sure if I dare convert to such my parents would have a heart attack cause they're all catholics. -don't apologize ^^
JEEZ i dont know how these people think those kinds of things are going to work??? And on what my mom said--so have I! I know that for me though cross-playing was an early expression because I always felt so much cooler, more attractive and always strived really hard to be seen as "a boy" and I later realized that was kinda me feeling things out? I think she said that because she only knows my experience. I explained to her that it doesn't inherently mean any of those kids are trans, and she understood. I just mentioned it because it meant a lot to me she was even thinking of something like that. She's trying haha. And hey! I'm an ex- christian turned agnostic witch so heyooo
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 2:28 am
sigishooter
Thats the family for you lol thinking it would work but in the end push us further from it/scare us away. The one good experience I could say was when I was walking around down town with a group of friends, we saw some bible group walking around with signs and an old guy looked at me while I was holding my friend hand. He just placed his hand on my shoulder and told me God loves me no matter what and it kinda made my night. Cause it was a night I was actually dressed rather girl ish and when me and my friend are together she's always all over me (as if we were dating) and before they got near us I was kinda angry like ohgeeze. They're gonna call us faggots and just tell us we're gross and going to hell- but this guy didn't. Even the others who passed us were just as nice as him and I just was pretty happy about that. Even if it was short. What I was thinking, crossdressing/cosplay is usually ways people find themselves attractive and more open. Least she understood for the most part? I'd kill to have my parents understand. Least be open to it instead of either closing me out/ brushing what I say under the rug sweatdrop Oh wow, really? XD Lately I find myself reading up on different religions, curiosity getting at me and wondering if I can ever find one to be part of/call my haven. but as of late, agnostic is fine with me.
Thats the family for you lol thinking it would work but in the end push us further from it/scare us away. The one good experience I could say was when I was walking around down town with a group of friends, we saw some bible group walking around with signs and an old guy looked at me while I was holding my friend hand. He just placed his hand on my shoulder and told me God loves me no matter what and it kinda made my night. Cause it was a night I was actually dressed rather girl ish and when me and my friend are together she's always all over me (as if we were dating) and before they got near us I was kinda angry like ohgeeze. They're gonna call us faggots and just tell us we're gross and going to hell- but this guy didn't. Even the others who passed us were just as nice as him and I just was pretty happy about that. Even if it was short. What I was thinking, crossdressing/cosplay is usually ways people find themselves attractive and more open. Least she understood for the most part? I'd kill to have my parents understand. Least be open to it instead of either closing me out/ brushing what I say under the rug sweatdrop Oh wow, really? XD Lately I find myself reading up on different religions, curiosity getting at me and wondering if I can ever find one to be part of/call my haven. but as of late, agnostic is fine with me.
Oh man that thing with that old man is awesome! Imagine how much a difference they'd make if everyone religious was like that. :l
And yeah! Witchcraft itself actually is not exclusively a religion, people tend to think so but it's not. I just practice witchcraft, not wicca, which is religion based witchcraft. But yea do what works well for you! At this point, I personally don't believe there is a god, and if there is I'm quite mad they let s**t go the way things go. I'm happier thinking there is nothing to be mad at and the universe just is how it is.
