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 Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:14 pm
For our first week, we have Amy leading our discussion on trans terminologies. Feel free to ask questions, give your two cents, etc.
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:40 pm
gaia_crown
I’m king of it all
Hello!
So, for our first roundtable, I thought I'd start us off on the conversation that kind of began in the thread.
People may have been various shades of gender non-conforming since people first existed, but transgender/transsexual identities are still relatively new as a thing.
Pair with this the creation of the internet and light-speed idea-sharing and you have a recipe for a culture that just moves too damn fast sometimes. Something that was 'okay' just a few months ago may suddenly become verboten out of nowhere.
Many people argue that the word tr*nny should no longer be used, that it's too associated with violence against us.
Some insist we use the asterisk when saying 'trans', others argue we don't need it, that it's obsolete.
In the thread, we often use MtF or FtM to denote what kind of status we are, beyond simply being transgender. But there are those who disagree with the very notion of a gender binary. There are those who go through transition only to become more androgynous in their presentation.
The point being, existing in this world as someone who defies the old notions of gender includes doing a lot of adjusting to change. And while I have my opinions about how to approach these and other issues, I also recognize that... well... it's tough!
So I thought I'd open up this forum to have a nice, in-depth, friendly conversation about these things.
What do they mean to you, if anything?
Do you have a preference for terminology?
Do you get offended when someone does the opposite of you?
gaia_angelleft ~EDIT~ gaia_angelright
Heeeeey, everybody!
Couple quick updates...
First and foremost, please note that the questions I threw out were just examples of stuff we could talk about, so feel free to add more questions to the mix or answer variations on them or whatever you feel comfortable with!
Also, there seems to be minor confusion about what exactly I meant by "terminology". As it stands, we already have a page where y'all explain your pronouns so there's no need to repeat that information here.
I was more curious as to whether or not you put an asterisk after trans, if you have an opinion about whether or not we should talk about folks being MtF/FtM, things of that nature.
Although Lawrence Eugene has definitely added an interesting point! The truth is that I'm heavily involved in social media and social justice. I read a lot of articles, listen to a lot of people on Twitter and Tumblr and I try to stay on top of what folks are saying.
This brings me to one last hitch that I didn't think to mention the first time around. As more and more people come out as being non-binary, agender, or gender-non-conforming, we're also seeing a lot of new pronouns. How do you all feel about that? (examples: ze, zir, hir, or someone who prefers they/them)
The belle of the ball
gaia_diamond
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Posted: Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:43 pm
What do they mean to you, if anything?
That T-slur, I was very unaware of it until I found out that it was something bad against the trans community. Now, I try hard to not listen to things containing said word as well as correcting people when they use it.
Said asterisk, I'm impartial to it, as I don't have a strong opinion for this.
Do you have a preference for terminology?
Him/he/his
Do you get offended when someone does the opposite of you?
Very. I've had to correct people at my work cause of this.
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:58 am
What do they mean to you, if anything?
As far as terminology goes, I still hold to the "textbook" definitions. Call me a hipster. Granted, I'm not very active in the trans* community, so I am not familiar with a lot of the in-group slang and diatribes concerning which label means what, but to me, they'll always mean what the root words say they mean. However, as I said before, I am not a very active person in the community, so odds are my opinion is wrong. I'm also not a big fan of labels, so I tend to avoid talking about them unless it's absolutely necessary.
Do you have a preference for terminology?
I do prefer being addressed with male pronouns.
Do you get offended when someone does the opposite of you?
Please explain; I don't understand the question.
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TheCreatureOfHabit Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:02 am
Typically people do not introduce themselves as trans or wanting to be referred to by specific pronouns, that comes later. I really do not care what people choose to go by, but I do need a transition period to get used to using different pronouns for them, especially if they are outside of he/him/his, she/her/hers, or they/them/theirs.
I get a little annoyed if people do not refer to me as male on Gaia because there is no reason not to. As far as offline areas, I do not pass for male and I do not expect those who I am open about it with to even stick to using male pronouns. It makes things a lot easier on me to keep it that way, too.
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:51 pm
gaia_crown
I’m king of it all
Hey kids, I wanted to go ahead and throw a few wrenches into the conversation so far. Check my first post for some edits/updates
The belle of the ball
gaia_diamond
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TheCreatureOfHabit Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:07 pm
Quote: I was more curious as to whether or not you put an asterisk after trans, if you have an opinion about whether or not we should talk about folks being MtF/FtM, things of that nature. I've used the term "trans" by itself, but only as a form of slang (IE "My friend is a talented trans artist", rather than saying the complete term "transgender"). I use the asterisk after the word "trans" when I mean to indicate a potential term rather than a finite, sort of in the same way that Boolean phrasing is supposed to work. I can properly refer to the "trans*" community in this way because the asterisk is basically a prompt to fill in the blank. It's all-inclusive. In response to talking about people being MtF/FtM, I would have to ask why we shouldn't. Sure, it shouldn't be treated like an alien thing or some kind of spiritual movement, but it shouldn't be a subject to shy away from or take for granted either. It's a subject worth talking about, even (and especially) with other trans* people. It's how we learn and develop a clearer understanding of who we are and where we stand as individuals. Quote: As more and more people come out as being non-binary, agender, or gender-non-conforming, we're also seeing a lot of new pronouns. How do you all feel about that? (examples: ze, zir, hir, or someone who prefers they/them) The new pronouns are fun to learn and don't really phase me as much as they seem to phase most others. The reason for that could be that I grew up being a huge fan of Star Trek and remember my first introduction to alternate pronouns being in the book series "Star Trek: Excalibur", in which one of the main characters, belonging to a species that has only one gender including both male and female reproductive roles, was referred to via pronouns such as "s/he said", "said to herm" or "hish possession", etc. Reading a whole book series with a character like that got me easily acclimated to unusual pronouns as well as the idea that something that was neither female nor male (or both in one package) could exist. The fact that most of them are made-up or derived from bastardizations of Greek and Latin isn't really that odd, either, when you consider that for his plays and poems, Shakespeare had to make up words as well. That's how language works: if there isn't a word for something, make it up and it will become a word.
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Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:25 pm
Am I partial to the Asterisk?
Yes, I am. Personally I feel that it's more inclusive and shows that there is more to the community and group than just what the 'normal' person might originally view as Transgender.
Referencing the existence of a gender binary.
I believe that in a sense, acknowledging that the binary does exist is almost crucial to how people in the world perceive us. Just because all Trans* people don't identify necessarily within the binary doesn't give us the right to nullify it. We don't want people to nullify our identity so why nullify those that identify within the binary.
Preference for terminology.
I enjoy looking into all terminology that I find to educate myself on all terms so that I have some standing when I talk to people about the topic. After all, telling someone to 'not be ignorant' or 'look it up' doesn't help your argument any.
New Pronouns being introduced.
If you found a new way to identify yourself with your pronouns, go you! Not my place to say pick something else. Yeah, it's kinda interesting to see everything that is coming into light. Not much more of an opinion on that though.
Transgender vs. Transexual?
Just curious about other peoples opinion.
Personally, I only use Transexual for those that are post-op it's just how it was originally introduced to me.
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Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:29 pm
gaia_crown
I’m king of it all
Oooh, that's another good one.
Yeah, there's an interesting divide about trans-sexual/gender
Personally I like transgender more. When I was growing up, transsexual used to be much more.... almost negative. But I've noticed that English folk are much more likely to use it.
For me, even if I go through any operations, I'll probably still stick with trans or transgender. It doesn't have any loaded connotations from my childhood, it's the first time I heard a time that actually applied to me.
But, y'know, folks that wanna identify with other words are great and totally should. I think the most important thing in the world is to find something that you feel comfortable identifying as.
The belle of the ball
gaia_diamond
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Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:03 pm
Transgender vs. Transexual?
I took think of transexual as post-op for the same reason as RynDraik. Transgender to me is a catch-all term for people identifying as anything other than cisgendered...but that's tricky too, because I'm not going to deny a FtM who wants to be considered a cisgender male (as an example). But then that's why I like the asterisk! The gender spectrum seems to be widening all the time, so it's just the easiest way to show an all-inclusive term, especially when educating people who have never imagined something other than "boy" and "girl" before.
The gender binary is frustrating because I think it has to be simultaneously acknowledged and challenged. I'm sure not going to deny someone identifying within the binary, but I'm going to push back every step of the way when someone tries to force that binary on me. Even typing that I think "gosh, that's unfair of me since most people don't even know gender is a spectrum." I'm genderfluid so that's not something people are going to know unless they ask or I tell them and I'm still working on my comfort level with that.
I love learning about pronouns because it's neat how a language evolves. Before I understood a gender spectrum existed I would refer to myself as singular they/them as well as applying it to someone whose gender I didn't know. When I learned plenty of trans* people do the same thing it was a relief because I didn't feel so alone!
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