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Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, conduct, love, faith, and in purity 

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Daily Discussion 10/6/13 ~ Rebirth

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Nenanah

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 9:42 pm


What does it mean to be Born Again?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:40 am


Nutshell: to put Adam's nature in us to death, and be born into God's family through the second Adam (Christ), taking on the actual family name/character.

Details:
    • Right now God is renewing our soul/mind, the body comes later. Currently, we're being given a new heart, God's law written on it, and a new spirit/attitude, one that wants to sincerely keep his commands (as preserved by the Jews, which Jesus was), not loop-hole our way out, nor merely keep the letter while attempting to dodge the whole intention of a command (i.e. "it's not fornication, it's just porn, it's just oral sex, it's just a sexual fantasy I play in my head", ignoring the intention: to avoid lusting after someone you're not in covenant with. No excuses, no one is making you fantasize about said person nor forcing your eyes to linger on their body or your mind to linger on lustful thoughts, let alone sexually stimulate another person you're not in covenant with, or yourself. We're not suppose to stay in a state of lust, hence marriage to satiate the desire lawfully or you ignore the fleeting desire, not feeding the flame through sensory input [what you watch / listen to]).

      Verses: Romans 8:22-23; Hebrews 8:10; Ezekiel 36:25-27; John 4:22; Matthew 5:27-28; Job 31:1

    • By definition, one who is born again no longer hates God nor his laws (since you have them on your heart), nor hates Christians/the body of believers (and by extension doesn't oppose them if they're in sound doctrine). They no longer allow the pleasures of the flesh to determine their decisions, but rely on his word for how to do a thing or if to do it at all. You're reconciled to Him. Have let your worldly ways of thinking go and accepted his higher thoughts and path—a path the Holy Spirit moves you to obey in adherence to his commands.

      Verses: 2 Corinthians 5:17-20; 1 John 2:9-10; Matthew 4:4; Isaiah 55:9; Ephesians 2:1-3; Colossians 3:5-10; Galatians 5:19-24; Philippians 2:13; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 John 4:6; John 15:26, 16:13; Psalm 119:43

    • The literal new birth will happen at his return, at which point, we'll be made into another creation, one that is immortal like the angels.

      Verses: Luke 20:35-36; 1 John 3:2; 1 Corinthians 15:52-55



Summary: to be "born again" is to undergo a spiritual—and eventual physical—transformation in conformity to YHWH's Will. Consent required.

real eyes realize

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Iesu Christo

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:38 pm


PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 3:19 pm


My thoughts basically echo Real Eyes. Being reborn, to me, is being awakened to the truth that Jesus is who He says He is. Our world shifts from one that is centered on earthly things to one that is centered on the Lord.

Ophelias Bathwater
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real eyes realize

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 4:40 pm


Iesu Christo
May God help those who seek the truth

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0022.html


Just a heads up, but that website has error. They're not taking into account the thief on the cross.

Quote:
Luke 23:38-43 (NIV)

38 There was a written notice above him, which read: this is the king of the jews.

39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]”

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Footnotes:

a. Luke 23:42 Some manuscripts come with your kingly power


The thief died on his cross. He wasn't baptized, he didn't go through any ritual, yet he was taken to paradise upon death, instead of the torturous side of She'ol. That which leads a person to undergo a ritual in the first place is what saves you—believing in what Jesus said. No ritual, in and of itself, actually does the saving or regenerating, that's the error of that website (and I suppose the Catholic position since it's claiming to be Catholic?). The literal baptism ritual is not what regenerates you. A second reason is because Cornelius received the Holy Spirit without going through a baptism to begin with, in Acts 10:47-48—though Peter didn't deny him a baptism afterwards; at that point, it was more of a ceremony to officially welcome them into the congregation, especially since Jesus, during his earthly ministry, had told him not to go to the Gentiles in Matthew 10:5.

And first-hand experience tells me that position is not so: I know people who were baptized yet decades pass and they've shown no signs of hating sin as defined by the Father, none whatsoever. They do not have the law written on their hearts the way the prophets and the apostles describe in the scriptures; by definition, they're not regenerated. People have to be cognizant of what they're repenting about, and acknowledge their sin, in order to receive any regeneration. Not everyone who undergoes a ritual confesses that, sincerely I mean. Some continue loving and justifying their sin, thus not regenerated. Yet that is something the thief did do: recognize his sin for the wrong that it was.
PostPosted: Mon Oct 14, 2013 8:29 am


real eyes realize
Iesu Christo
May God help those who seek the truth

http://catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0022.html


Just a heads up, but that website has error. They're not taking into account the thief on the cross.

Quote:
Luke 23:38-43 (NIV)

38 There was a written notice above him, which read: this is the king of the jews.

39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[a]”

43 Jesus answered him, “Truly I tell you, today you will be with me in paradise.”

Footnotes:

a. Luke 23:42 Some manuscripts come with your kingly power


The thief died on his cross. He wasn't baptized, he didn't go through any ritual, yet he was taken to paradise upon death, instead of the torturous side of She'ol. That which leads a person to undergo a ritual in the first place is what saves you—believing in what Jesus said. No ritual, in and of itself, actually does the saving or regenerating, that's the error of that website (and I suppose the Catholic position since it's claiming to be Catholic?). The literal baptism ritual is not what regenerates you. A second reason is because Cornelius received the Holy Spirit without going through a baptism to begin with, in Acts 10:47-48—though Peter didn't deny him a baptism afterwards; at that point, it was more of a ceremony to officially welcome them into the congregation, especially since Jesus, during his earthly ministry, had told him not to go to the Gentiles in Matthew 10:5.

And first-hand experience tells me that position is not so: I know people who were baptized yet decades pass and they've shown no signs of hating sin as defined by the Father, none whatsoever. They do not have the law written on their hearts the way the prophets and the apostles describe in the scriptures; by definition, they're not regenerated. People have to be cognizant of what they're repenting about, and acknowledge their sin, in order to receive any regeneration. Not everyone who undergoes a ritual confesses that, sincerely I mean. Some continue loving and justifying their sin, thus not regenerated. Yet that is something the thief did do: recognize his sin for the wrong that it was.



St. Dismas



by Saints Editor on March 25, 2013 · 0 Comments



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All that we know with any authority about this saint is what we have from Sacred Scripture and Sacred Tradition. Tradition tells us that his name was Dismas and that he was the good thief who was crucified next to Jesus on Good Friday.

There is a story, which is not substantiated and considered myth, which comes from the Arabic Gospel of the Infancy. The story is that the two thieves who ended up on each side of Christ at His crucifixion actually had a run-in with the Holy Family when Jesus was just an infant. In this story, the thieves held up Mary and Joseph as they were fleeing to Egypt with the infant Jesus to escape Herod’s soldiers. Apparently Dismas bribed the other thief, named Gestas, with forty drachmas to not harm the Holy Family. At this point in the tale, the Infant Jesus predicted that the thieves would be crucified with Him in Jerusalem and that Dismas would accompany Him to Paradise. Again, this story is not substantiated and is considered myth.

The only valid information we have on Dismas is the account in the Gospels. This account is from Saint Luke’s Gospel:

Two others also, who were criminals, were led away to be put to death with Him. And when they came to the place, which is called The Skull, there they crucified Him and the criminals, one on the right and one on the left. And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.” And they cast lots to divide His garments. And the people stood by, watching; but the rulers scoffed at Him, saying, “He saved others; let Him save Himself, if He is the Christ of God, His Chosen One!” The soldiers also mocked Him, coming up and offering Him vinegar, and saying, “If you are the King of the Jews, save yourself!” There was also an inscription over Him, “This is the King of the Jews.” One of the criminals who was hanged railed at him, saying, “Are you not the Christ? Save yourself and us!” But the other rebuked him, saying “Do you not fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? And we indeed justly; for we are receiving the due reward of our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong.” And he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into Your kingly power.” And He said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with Me in Paradise” (Luke 23:32-43).

Questions frequently arise from this Scripture verse concerning Dismas. One usually posed from non-Catholics is that the good thief (Dismas) was taken to heaven and was apparently not baptized, surmising that this must mean baptism is not necessary for salvation. Another question concerns good works. If this man apparently lived a life of sin and was being crucified for his sins, thereby not able to do anything good before his death, how is it he could go straight to heaven?

In response to these questions, the Catholic Church teaches that in cases where there is no baptism of water, there may be a baptism of desire. This can occur in situations where there is no opportunity for baptism. Vatican II documents and the Catechism of the Catholic Church state: “Those who through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, but nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do His will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience — those too may achieve eternal salvation.”

Dismas certainly proved by his words to Jesus and to the other thief on the cross that he fit the criteria and received baptism of desire. Secondly, according to Scripture, (1 Peter 3:19-20 and Ephesians 4:8-10) and the Nicene Creed, Jesus descended into Hades, which is also known as Sheol (or the place of the dead, where both the righteous and unrighteous went) between Good Friday and Easter Sunday. So if He descended into the abode of the dead and preached to the prisoners (1 Peter 3:19) then He didn’t go straight to heaven. The Paradise he spoke of to Dismas was Hades or Sheol, which we might call Purgatory. It wasn’t heaven, but a place or state of being where the dead would be before they could go to heaven. Furthermore, Scripture states that Jesus didn’t actually ascend into heaven until forty days after His resurrection (Acts 1:3, 9-11; John 20:17).

Remember Jesus’ words to Mary Magdalene when she saw Him outside the tomb on Easter Sunday: “Do not hold Me for I have not yet ascended to the Father” (Luke 20:17). So when Jesus said to Dismas, “This day you will be with Me in Paradise,” He must have meant that Dismas would first go with Him to Paradise (Sheol) to preach to those there, before taking the righteous to heaven.

Lessons

Some feel that it is not “fair” that Dismas was a criminal who not only was apparently not baptized but also had lived a life of sin and then in his last minutes of life on earth was saved. They feel that it doesn’t seem right that someone could lead their whole life in sin and then be saved at the “last minute” whereby they have striven all their lives to be good and righteous. Recall the parable of our Lord in Matthew’s Gospel about the householder who went out to hire laborers to work in his vineyard. In this parable the master (who symbolizes God) hired some workers early in the morning to work in his vineyard. Around noon he hired more laborers and then at the last hour of daylight, he hired more laborers. At the end of the day, he called them all together to pay them their wages. When all received the same wage, those who had been hired in the morning and worked all day protested that they should be paid more than those who had been hired at the end of the day and only worked for an hour. The master replied, “Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity? So the last will be first, and the first last.”

Prayer

Lord Jesus, help us to be merciful as You are merciful. Let us see that all are Your children and remember that we are not to judge. When we look on one such as Dismas, let us see an opportunity to offer hope and salvation. Let us witness the good news of salvation to the sinner and never judge anyone as unworthy or hopeless. Just as Dismas repented at the last moments of his life on earth, let us see that this is great hope for all and grant that we never grow weary in our efforts to bring the light of salvation to all. Amen.

Other Saints We Remember Today

Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary

St. Margaret Clitherow (1586), Wife, Mother, Martyr

reference: http://catholicexchange.com/saint-dismas/

Iesu Christo

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