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 Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 8:22 pm
*Do you think that the people who work in a shop, or factory, or fast food joint are capable of doing admin and supply s**t with a few weeks training?
*Do you think that people who live in a building can collectively work s**t out in terms of how to look after the building?
*Do you think that the workers who actually run the trains in the subway know more about how to deal with timetable and runtime issues than management?
*Do you think that the population of an area can come together as both workers and consumers to talk about what is produced, how it is produced, and so forth?
*Do you think that there are tonnes of jobs that simply don’t make sense, like janitors and admin staff, which can be done by the production workers themselves on a rotating basis, or advertising and goldworkers and s**t that produce stupid luxury goods that have no use whatsoever outside of conspicuous consumption for property owners?
*Do you think that if we put all those ‘unproductive’ workers, and the mass of available unemployed and under employed to work in productive jobs, that this would result in lower necessary working hours for all with an increase in output?
*Do you think that with the huge amount of stuff produced, both in the USA and globally, that there is no actual scarcity, there is just property owners refusing to supply food and housing and whatever surplus they have for free?
*Do you think that production would seriously decline if people weren't scared of starvation?
*Do you think, based on all this, that ownership of factories, and rail, and ships, and planes, and hospital even makes sense in terms of production for human need, as opposed to profit?
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Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:10 am
Quote: *Do you think, based on all this, that ownership of factories, and rail, and ships, and planes, and hospital even makes sense in terms of production for human need, as opposed to profit? I am not able to understand how any of these ones could possibly work better in terms of profits. Never was able to understand. Never will.
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Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:11 pm
For the nationalisation of the commanding heights of the economy and industry, to be brought under democratic worker's control!
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Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 10:35 pm
Vladimir Trotsky For the nationalisation of the commanding heights of the economy and industry, to be brought under democratic worker's control! "Today, as the factories close in Detroit, Manchester, Alsace and Bochum, we would like to see the Leninist left come and explain to the "labor aristocracy" how it "benefits" from imperialism; we would like to see it call for "nationalization under workers' control" of decrepit 70-year old factories." That was written in 1981' after the electoral consolidation, under Thatcher/Reagan, of attacks n the working class which started in the mid-1970's. However more on point is that I am against advocating the state do anything. Nationalization of the commanding heights of industry, under capitalist rule? No, not gonna happen. So it's pure fantasy to talk about putting those nationalized industries under worker control, democratic or not. In addition, in the core capitalist countries, what are the commanding heights of industry and the economy? Well for one, there are no commanding heights of industry any more. On the other hand, the commanding heights of the economy are a bunch of financial firms and banks, and why should they be allowed to exist? They simply don't make sense under workers control. So what is left? Well, the community, i.e., those who work in/on/with the s**t, and the consumers who need it, not the nation, taking hold of the entire economy, abolishing entire industries, and remaking others. The only state that should have anything to do with it is the armed working class, but that 'is not a state in the proper sense of the term'. I short, I don't think those boilerplate slogans have much validity >_>
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Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 11:49 am
Le Pere Duchesne Vladimir Trotsky For the nationalisation of the commanding heights of the economy and industry, to be brought under democratic worker's control! "Today, as the factories close in Detroit, Manchester, Alsace and Bochum, we would like to see the Leninist left come and explain to the "labor aristocracy" how it "benefits" from imperialism; we would like to see it call for "nationalization under workers' control" of decrepit 70-year old factories." That was written in 1981' after the electoral consolidation, under Thatcher/Reagan, of attacks n the working class which started in the mid-1970's. However more on point is that I am against advocating the state do anything. Nationalization of the commanding heights of industry, under capitalist rule? No, not gonna happen. So it's pure fantasy to talk about putting those nationalized industries under worker control, democratic or not. In addition, in the core capitalist countries, what are the commanding heights of industry and the economy? Well for one, there are no commanding heights of industry any more. On the other hand, the commanding heights of the economy are a bunch of financial firms and banks, and why should they be allowed to exist? They simply don't make sense under workers control. So what is left? Well, the community, i.e., those who work in/on/with the s**t, and the consumers who need it, not the nation, taking hold of the entire economy, abolishing entire industries, and remaking others. The only state that should have anything to do with it is the armed working class, but that 'is not a state in the proper sense of the term'. I short, I don't think those boilerplate slogans have much validity >_> I can see where you are coming from. Certainly, Industry is on it's a** after the neo-liberalisation of the advanced capitalist countries over the past 30 or so years. Thatcher made sure Industry took a back seat to Finance because she had to destroy the Industry in order to break the strong militant layers of the working class like the Miners, the Dockers etc... What Industry we do have left however, should not be run by private companies, and instead should be nationalised. Worker's control isn't possible at this stage since we haven't actually smashed the state i.e there hasn't been a proletariat revolution. As for the commanding heights of the economy, it would again take a revolution to bring them into public ownership. I am not saying that we can achieve democratic, public ownership and worker's control under capitalism. What I am putting forward is a transitional demand. Taking the class where they are at and trying to advance consciousness. In the UK, 750 billion lays idle, hoarded in the banks of big business and they wont invest it because they can't find a market in which they can make a quick buck. 125 billion goes avoided/evaded in tax by big business every single year through the legal or illegal exploitation of loop holes and tax havens. So to transfer the minimal demand into the maximal transitionally:
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