Welcome to Gaia! ::

Saving Christianity from Christians

Back to Guilds

a Guild for teh eBil liberals 

Tags: Liberal, Christian, Exegesis, Study 

Reply Main Forum
Manipulating the bible

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

CheyenneServant

PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:13 pm


PLEASE HELP ME EXPLAIN THESE MISINTERPERTATIONS OF THE BIBLE. I DID NOT CREATE THIS LIST. IT WAS SENT TO ME AND I WANTED TO DEFEND CHRISTIANITY.
1."I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)
2."Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)
3."You shall not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:1smilies/icon_cool.gif
4."Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)
5."When the men would not listen to his host, the husband seized his concubine and thrust her outside to them. They had relations with her and abused her all night until the following dawn, when they let her go. Then at daybreak the woman came and collapsed at the entrance of the house in which her husband was a guest, where she lay until the morning. When her husband rose that day and opened the door of the house to start out again on his journey, there lay the woman, his concubine, at the entrance of the house with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, 'Come, let us go'; but there was no answer. So the man placed her on an a** and started out again for home." (Judges 19:25-2smilies/icon_cool.gif
6."And the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity." (Romans 1:27)
7."Jephthah made a vow to the Lord. 'If you deliver the Ammonites into my power,' he said, 'whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites shall belong to the Lord. I shall offer him up as a holocaust.' ... When Jephthah returned to his house in Mizpah, it was his daughter who came forth, playing the tambourines and dancing. She was an only child: he had neither son nor daughter besides her. When he saw her, he rent his garments and said, 'Alas, daughter, you have struck me down and brought calamity upon me. For I have made a vow to the Lord and I cannot retract'." (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)
8."Then God said: 'Take your son Isaac, your only one, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah. There you shall offer him up as a holocaust on a height that I will point out to you'."(Genesis 22:2)
9."Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)
10."Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:1smilies/icon_cool.gif
God says it's not just OK to own slaves, but it is also A-OK to beat them to death. As long as they take a couple days to die. That's royally ******** up, and it's found in Exodus 21:20-21. Also see Leviticus 25:44-46, Ephesians 6:5, and 1 Timothy 6:1-2. Nowhere in the Bible is there any instruction that slavery is bad.

- God accepts sex slavery and ritual human sacrifice. As long as it's to him, rather than some competing deity. I'd talk about the Abraham and Isaac story, but that one has slight ambiguities which apologists love to exploit. Not so with Numbers 31. The cliff notes version: God tells Moses to take out revenge on the Midianites by doing the ethnic cleansing thing on them. All the Midianite men were killed. Livestock and material goods were taken as spoils. Women and children were taken as P.O.W.'s. Moses was angry that the women were allowed to live, since they might infect the Israelites with anti-YHWHistic ideas. Moses ordered all the boys and non-virgin women killed. The virgin girls were kept alive, and were taken by individual Israelites. The text doesn't explicitly say so, but anyone with half a brain knows that those young virgin girls were kept as sex slaves. 32,000 of them. On Moses' command. (Strangely, Moses didn't seem to think those virgin girls would entice people away from YHWH like their non-virgin counterparts would.) The virgin girls were divvied up between the warriors, the congregation, and the priests. And God. 32 virgin girls were given as a tribute offering to God (verses 40-41). Not to the priests. To God. And no complaints whatsoever are heard from God or anyone else in the Bible. That's royally ******** up.

- More total ethnic cleansing in 1 Samuel 15. God told Samuel and Saul to wipe out the current generation of Amalekites, since their ancestors opposed the ancestors of the current generation of Israelites during the Exodus (verse 3). It was reparations, of a sort: death. Men, women, children, babies, everyone. It was supposed to be everything as well, but Saul kept livestock and material goods and the king. God was not happy. God had wanted Saul to destroy everyone and everything. That's royally ******** up, and it's in the Bible.

- God mauled 42 boys for calling his prophet "baldy". 2 Kings 2:23-24. Apologists love to claim that "boys" is mistranslated, and it should be something more like "street thugs", and that calling Elisha "baldy" should be interpreted as a threat on his life. One might wonder where the hell apologists get such an idiotic notion from, but even if it were true, that still would not excuse such an action from an omnipotent deity. An omnipotent deity could easily have chosen to protect Elisha without harming the "thugs", via magical forcefield, or some other similar measure. But did he? Of course not. God's answer to pretty much any situation is death. (Noah's ark, anyone?) That's royally ******** up, and the Bible is absolutely brimming with it.

- How does god show of his power? In Exodus 11, God kills all the firstborn of Egypt (verses 4-5), purely as a display of power. Apologists will say God was forced into such drastic measures, because Pharaoh would not let the Israelites go, but this is not true. Pharaoh was already compliant, but God hardened Pharaoh's heart (Ex 10:27 and 11:10), in order to make a grander show if it all (Ex 11:9). That's royally ******** up, and it's promoted by the Bible.

- Enough Old Testament for now. On to Jesus' "family values". Have a look at Matthew 10:34-36. The "Prince of Peace" came not to bring peace, but to bring division, and to set family members against each other. That's royally ******** up, and it's promoted by the Bible.

- Even though it's a later insertion into the text, most churches love to talk up 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. That's the "don't be unequally yoked" s**t.

- More of Paul's misogyny can be found in 1 Timothy 2:9-15.

- Oh, and just for good measure... God hates everyone, according to the Bible. Romans 3:10 says everyone is a sinner. Psalm 5:5 says God hates all sinners. Not just sin. He hates all sinners. QED, God hates everyone. (Except Job, who was blameless (Job 1:1), and got tortured for his accomplishment.)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:09 pm


Welcome to just a few of the reasons, I stopped taking the bible literally... and only one of the steps that lead to my abandonment of Christianity as a whole.

I shall try to help with understanding, but, my sight isn't perfect[far from it]. First off, take in mind that it was in a different time. When it was alright to take slaves, and women was treated as second class citizens or worse.
Second, a lot of the verses are cut short of their meaning, and taken out of context if you will.

Quote:
1."I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)

9."Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)


Jesus said something about this in the gnostic text of Thomas

(114)
(1) Simon Peter said to them: "Let Mary go away from us, for women are
not worthy of life."
(2) Jesus said: "Look, I will draw her in so as to make her male,
so that she too may become a living male spirit, similar to you."
(3) (But I say to you): "Every woman who makes herself male will enter
the kingdom of heaven."

If you take this, and replace female with sinner, and male for forgiven. It paints a whole knew picture....if not then it says, transexual augmentation is needed. I don't see some omni-thing, playing favorites with men and women, And half of the stories of the bible are about humans trying to please the invisible and silent.


Quote:
8."Then God said: 'Take your son Isaac, your only one, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah. There you shall offer him up as a holocaust on a height that I will point out to you'."(Genesis 22:2)


This was supposed to be a story of obedience. and is taken out of context... slightly better with the full story.


Matthew 10:34-36
Everything Jesus said, was in riddles, this was no exception. He doesn't mean to go toe to toe with you parents, brothers, sisters; lest I never took it that way, but instead break from them, and find your own truth.

Sorry, but lost of time.

Southern Cross Nemesis


rmcdra
Captain

Loved Seeker

11,700 Points
  • Forum Sophomore 300
  • Partygoer 500
  • Contributor 150
PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:28 pm


I'll answer but I don't think you'll like the answers.
Jesuslittleprincess
1."I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. She must be quiet." (1 Timothy 2:12)
Paul never wrote any letter to Timothy. It is a letter attributed to Paul and got accepted into canon because it refuted the rivaling theology of Marcionism.
Quote:
2."Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses." (1 Samuel 15:3)
The event probably never happened but if it did it was recorded to show Hebrew superiority over other nations. Basically the story is to show that you don't need to accept help from your enemies and to do what G-d says to do. Their disobedience to this command had consequences later in Samuel.
Quote:
3."You shall not let a sorceress live." (Exodus 22:18
It's a mistranslation, the verse is about Hebrews who pray to other gods. G-d in the OT didn't like his children breaking his covenant of praying to other gods. Also back then what gods you prayed to said a lot of what your national allegiance was. It'd be considered an act of treason to pray to other gods.
Quote:
4."Happy those who seize your children and smash them against a rock." (Psalm 137:9)
Take the verse in context. Psalms 137 is a song about the destruction that will come to Babylon. They destroyed Israel, Israel will take vengeance on Babylon.
Quote:
5."When the men would not listen to his host, the husband seized his concubine and thrust her outside to them. They had relations with her and abused her all night until the following dawn, when they let her go. Then at daybreak the woman came and collapsed at the entrance of the house in which her husband was a guest, where she lay until the morning. When her husband rose that day and opened the door of the house to start out again on his journey, there lay the woman, his concubine, at the entrance of the house with her hands on the threshold. He said to her, 'Come, let us go'; but there was no answer. So the man placed her on an a** and started out again for home." (Judges 19:25-28
It's a graphic rendition of the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. The people took this man's concubine and raped her. Again this is just a small portion of the whole story. The whole story is about being kind to strangers and that those who are inhospitable to strangers will suffer.
Quote:
6."And the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity." (Romans 1:27)
Possibly an interpolation but it's a passage condemning idolatry.
Quote:
7."Jephthah made a vow to the Lord. 'If you deliver the Ammonites into my power,' he said, 'whoever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites shall belong to the Lord. I shall offer him up as a holocaust.' ... When Jephthah returned to his house in Mizpah, it was his daughter who came forth, playing the tambourines and dancing. She was an only child: he had neither son nor daughter besides her. When he saw her, he rent his garments and said, 'Alas, daughter, you have struck me down and brought calamity upon me. For I have made a vow to the Lord and I cannot retract'." (Judges 11:30-1, 34-5)
It's a story about being careful about what vows you make. He made a promise he had to keep. It's like the stories about being careful about what you wish for.
Quote:
8."Then God said: 'Take your son Isaac, your only one, whom you love, and go to the land of Moriah. There you shall offer him up as a holocaust on a height that I will point out to you'."(Genesis 22:2)
It is a story about obedience. It probably didn't really happen but it's a story about showing what one is willing to do if one follows their convictions. Fortunately it had a good ending, Isaac didn't die, but it shows that what blind devotion can lead to. Had G-d not intervened, the story would have been quite tragic.
Quote:
9."Wives should be subordinate to their husbands as to the Lord." (Ephesians 5:22)
Interpolation more than likely. Was probably written by a school of thought familiar or directly under Paul.
Quote:
10."Slaves, be subject to your masters with all reverence, not only to those who are good and equitable but also to those who are perverse." (1 Peter 2:18
Peter never wrote this letter more than likely. It is one of those passage included to make Christianity more palatable to the Romans.

Quote:
God says it's not just OK to own slaves, but it is also A-OK to beat them to death. As long as they take a couple days to die. That's royally ******** up, and it's found in Exodus 21:20-21. Also see Leviticus 25:44-46, Ephesians 6:5, and 1 Timothy 6:1-2. Nowhere in the Bible is there any instruction that slavery is bad.

- God accepts sex slavery and ritual human sacrifice. As long as it's to him, rather than some competing deity. I'd talk about the Abraham and Isaac story, but that one has slight ambiguities which apologists love to exploit. Not so with Numbers 31. The cliff notes version: God tells Moses to take out revenge on the Midianites by doing the ethnic cleansing thing on them. All the Midianite men were killed. Livestock and material goods were taken as spoils. Women and children were taken as P.O.W.'s. Moses was angry that the women were allowed to live, since they might infect the Israelites with anti-YHWHistic ideas. Moses ordered all the boys and non-virgin women killed. The virgin girls were kept alive, and were taken by individual Israelites. The text doesn't explicitly say so, but anyone with half a brain knows that those young virgin girls were kept as sex slaves. 32,000 of them. On Moses' command. (Strangely, Moses didn't seem to think those virgin girls would entice people away from YHWH like their non-virgin counterparts would.) The virgin girls were divvied up between the warriors, the congregation, and the priests. And God. 32 virgin girls were given as a tribute offering to God (verses 40-41). Not to the priests. To God. And no complaints whatsoever are heard from God or anyone else in the Bible. That's royally ******** up.

- More total ethnic cleansing in 1 Samuel 15. God told Samuel and Saul to wipe out the current generation of Amalekites, since their ancestors opposed the ancestors of the current generation of Israelites during the Exodus (verse 3). It was reparations, of a sort: death. Men, women, children, babies, everyone. It was supposed to be everything as well, but Saul kept livestock and material goods and the king. God was not happy. God had wanted Saul to destroy everyone and everything. That's royally ******** up, and it's in the Bible.

- God mauled 42 boys for calling his prophet "baldy". 2 Kings 2:23-24. Apologists love to claim that "boys" is mistranslated, and it should be something more like "street thugs", and that calling Elisha "baldy" should be interpreted as a threat on his life. One might wonder where the hell apologists get such an idiotic notion from, but even if it were true, that still would not excuse such an action from an omnipotent deity. An omnipotent deity could easily have chosen to protect Elisha without harming the "thugs", via magical forcefield, or some other similar measure. But did he? Of course not. God's answer to pretty much any situation is death. (Noah's ark, anyone?) That's royally ******** up, and the Bible is absolutely brimming with it.

- How does god show of his power? In Exodus 11, God kills all the firstborn of Egypt (verses 4-5), purely as a display of power. Apologists will say God was forced into such drastic measures, because Pharaoh would not let the Israelites go, but this is not true. Pharaoh was already compliant, but God hardened Pharaoh's heart (Ex 10:27 and 11:10), in order to make a grander show if it all (Ex 11:9). That's royally ******** up, and it's promoted by the Bible.

- Enough Old Testament for now. On to Jesus' "family values". Have a look at Matthew 10:34-36. The "Prince of Peace" came not to bring peace, but to bring division, and to set family members against each other. That's royally ******** up, and it's promoted by the Bible.

- Even though it's a later insertion into the text, most churches love to talk up 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. That's the "don't be unequally yoked" s**t.

- More of Paul's misogyny can be found in 1 Timothy 2:9-15.

- Oh, and just for good measure... God hates everyone, according to the Bible. Romans 3:10 says everyone is a sinner. Psalm 5:5 says God hates all sinners. Not just sin. He hates all sinners. QED, God hates everyone. (Except Job, who was blameless (Job 1:1), and got tortured for his accomplishment.)
Is this all some sort of copy pasta from some website? I really don't pay this stuff much attention.
PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 4:42 pm


I did not create the list of Bible misinterpiations. Someone sent it to me and I wanted help (seeking Christian counsel) on how to answer this person.

CheyenneServant


rmcdra
Captain

Loved Seeker

11,700 Points
  • Forum Sophomore 300
  • Partygoer 500
  • Contributor 150
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:09 am


Quote:
God says it's not just OK to own slaves, but it is also A-OK to beat them to death. As long as they take a couple days to die. That's royally ******** up, and it's found in Exodus 21:20-21. Also see Leviticus 25:44-46, Ephesians 6:5, and 1 Timothy 6:1-2. Nowhere in the Bible is there any instruction that slavery is bad.
Well your flaw is thinking that the Bible is the literal "word" of God and everything has to be followed verbatim. It's cultural writings that preaches Christian philosophy within the context of the time. Yes the Bible doesn't say anything against slavery because no one at the time saw anything bad with it. Why is that, because slavery in the Bible was equivalent to indentured servitude, not chattel slavery as what went on in the US. We know that it is wrong though now with the understanding of human nature that we have now. You should also understand that a lot of the abolitionist movements were religiously motivated as well.

Quote:
- God accepts sex slavery and ritual human sacrifice. As long as it's to him, rather than some competing deity. I'd talk about the Abraham and Isaac story, but that one has slight ambiguities which apologists love to exploit. Not so with Numbers 31. The cliff notes version: God tells Moses to take out revenge on the Midianites by doing the ethnic cleansing thing on them. All the Midianite men were killed. Livestock and material goods were taken as spoils. Women and children were taken as P.O.W.'s. Moses was angry that the women were allowed to live, since they might infect the Israelites with anti-YHWHistic ideas. Moses ordered all the boys and non-virgin women killed. The virgin girls were kept alive, and were taken by individual Israelites. The text doesn't explicitly say so, but anyone with half a brain knows that those young virgin girls were kept as sex slaves. 32,000 of them. On Moses' command. (Strangely, Moses didn't seem to think those virgin girls would entice people away from YHWH like their non-virgin counterparts would.) The virgin girls were divvied up between the warriors, the congregation, and the priests. And God. 32 virgin girls were given as a tribute offering to God (verses 40-41). Not to the priests. To God. And no complaints whatsoever are heard from God or anyone else in the Bible. That's royally ******** up.
Yeah it's a ******** up tale, many fairy tales are ******** up but they convey a message when examined within the cultural context that the story came from. I looked up Numbers 31:40-41, there is no human sacrifice mentioned in the verses. Also this story was written during a time period when women were considered property. The point of the story is that the ancient Israel is number one and they as small band of nomads could take down an established nation. And what do you expect, when a country or nation is writing a mythic history for themselves, of course such a group is going to make themselves look like number one.

Quote:
- More total ethnic cleansing in 1 Samuel 15. God told Samuel and Saul to wipe out the current generation of Amalekites, since their ancestors opposed the ancestors of the current generation of Israelites during the Exodus (verse 3). It was reparations, of a sort: death. Men, women, children, babies, everyone. It was supposed to be everything as well, but Saul kept livestock and material goods and the king. God was not happy. God had wanted Saul to destroy everyone and everything. That's royally ******** up, and it's in the Bible.
Yeah it is ******** up, but again it's a cultural story. It's a story about obedience to YHVH, when he asks you do something and you agree to do it, don't half a** on it. What's so shocking about it being in the Bible? Are you expecting a Disney story?

Quote:
- God mauled 42 boys for calling his prophet "baldy". 2 Kings 2:23-24. Apologists love to claim that "boys" is mistranslated, and it should be something more like "street thugs", and that calling Elisha "baldy" should be interpreted as a threat on his life. One might wonder where the hell apologists get such an idiotic notion from, but even if it were true, that still would not excuse such an action from an omnipotent deity. An omnipotent deity could easily have chosen to protect Elisha without harming the "thugs", via magical forcefield, or some other similar measure. But did he? Of course not. God's answer to pretty much any situation is death. (Noah's ark, anyone?) That's royally ******** up, and the Bible is absolutely brimming with it.
Yeah it's a ******** up tale. And so what? YHVH was not seen as omnipotent at the time the story was written.

Quote:
- How does god show of his power? In Exodus 11, God kills all the firstborn of Egypt (verses 4-5), purely as a display of power. Apologists will say God was forced into such drastic measures, because Pharaoh would not let the Israelites go, but this is not true. Pharaoh was already compliant, but God hardened Pharaoh's heart (Ex 10:27 and 11:10), in order to make a grander show if it all (Ex 11:9). That's royally ******** up, and it's promoted by the Bible.
You do realize that what this means is still debated to this day. This is nothing new. It shows that the Bible has multiple theological perspectives in it. The author(s) who were writing that passage saw YHVH in this story as omnipotent. For all we know, it could be a euphemism that we've long lost the meaning.

Quote:
- Enough Old Testament for now. On to Jesus' "family values". Have a look at Matthew 10:34-36. The "Prince of Peace" came not to bring peace, but to bring division, and to set family members against each other. That's royally ******** up, and it's promoted by the Bible.
Why? Generations will clash on issues. The past will argue with the present and the new information. Peace does not mean complacency or being a doormat.

Quote:
- Even though it's a later insertion into the text, most churches love to talk up 2 Corinthians 6:14-18. That's the "don't be unequally yoked" s**t.
And? Why should one group of people be measured by the same standards of another different group?

Quote:
- More of Paul's misogyny can be found in 1 Timothy 2:9-15.
Paul never wrote Timothy

Quote:
- Oh, and just for good measure... God hates everyone, according to the Bible. Romans 3:10 says everyone is a sinner. Psalm 5:5 says God hates all sinners. Not just sin. He hates all sinners. QED, God hates everyone. (Except Job, who was blameless (Job 1:1), and got tortured for his accomplishment.)
Wow talk about pulling a WBC stunt. Take one passage from one text and put it together with a passage from a different text that has a different context and come to a false conclusion. Romans 5:8 throws a kink in your argument. Also you forgot about 2 Corinithians 3, that says that the old covenant puts a veil over your face. And what is Psalm in... QED.
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 12:59 am


someone sent this list to me and I was looking for a Christian defense. I love God and hated how someone was attacking Christianity. That's why I was looking for some explanations.
I thank you for taking the time to reply but please don't think I made the list or wrote anything on it. I simply copied and pasted.

CheyenneServant


rmcdra
Captain

Loved Seeker

11,700 Points
  • Forum Sophomore 300
  • Partygoer 500
  • Contributor 150
PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 7:21 am


Jesuslittleprincess
someone sent this list to me and I was looking for a Christian defense. I love God and hated how someone was attacking Christianity. That's why I was looking for some explanations.
I thank you for taking the time to reply but please don't think I made the list or wrote anything on it. I simply copied and pasted.
I didn't think you made the list. It's just that I've seen stuff like this before and it's not worth dealing with. I wouldn't worry so much about people "attacking Christianity". Most of the attacks are at phantoms of what Christianity is, even if some people actually practice these phantoms. A majority of people, believers and non-believers don't understand Christianity, the history of it, and the texts. I've come to expect this especially when it's Christians that will promote the misinformation because they want to defend the idols they've created.
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:28 am


Overall the answer is...

Tell that person that they should go study Theology and Greek/Asia Minor history so they can learn the history behind the "Holy Bible".

Oh I suppose they should learn Latin also, since the bible was in Latin for about 1200 or so years and was only read by the priesthood of the Catholic Church.

Qyp

Manly Lunatic

Reply
Main Forum

 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum