Alright, took me a lot longer than I said, but this subforum is for the bloodline revamps. Each bloodline and clan will get it's own personal thread. This revamp is open to all crew. If you see a bloodline you are interested in, whether that interest be in making the clan better than ever, or seething hatred, post in it's thread (Or create it's thread if it doesn't have one already.), and explain why, in detail. I want input from at least three crew members on a bloodline before it can be voted for removal, and said vote must be a majority vote of all crew.
Input on these threads should not be simply "I don't like it, remove.", or "I agree with So-And-So.". All input should be your own reasons and explanations. We don't need an army of Yes-Men going through these. We need workers who can put their best into them.
The first post of each thread should be the bloodline in question, as it currently stands. The second post should be reserved for the completed, or latest version after some work has been done. Both said posts should be in document format.
Posted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 1:37 pm
Just to save space, I'm going to add a discussion topic for this thread. Formatting.
The current bloodline format is about five years old now, and as follows.
[b]Pic:[/b] (Mandatory) [b]Name:[/b] [b]Description:[/b] (Background) [b]Strengths:[/b] (Must Have at least one) [b]Weaknesses:[/b] (Must have MORE than one) [b]Ability:[/b] (Special ability this clan/ kekkei genkai gives) [b]Bloodline/Clan Jutsus:[/b]
It's really not very good. Can't really put it in any fancier term than that. So, we sort of need a new format, and it's be a good idea to have that before we get too deep into the work here. I started working on a format awhile ago. It's not done, and it's almost definitely not perfect, but it could be a good jumping point. If anyone has a better idea, design, or just thinks for some reason that a new format is a bad idea, I do want your input. I want your input even if you like it and just think it needs work too.
This is the format I've used for the bloodlines I've worked on so far. Simple for the most part, though it gets a tiny bit tricky sometimes. Still, just comparing to a completed bloodline is usually enough to solve and dilemmas.
~ Numbers for rules and such. ❶ ❷ ❸ ❹ ❺ ❻ ❼ ❽ ❾ ❿ ⓫ ⓬ ⓭ ⓮ ⓯ ⓰ ⓱ ⓲ ⓳ ⓴ ① ② ③ ④ ⑤ ⑥ ⑦ ⑧ ⑨ ⑩ ⑪ ⑫ ⑬ ⑭ ⑮ ⑯ ⑰ ⑱ ⑲ ⑳ I dunno why the black 10 is different. It's a lot smaller than the others, but size 19 brings it up to normal, though also shifts it up a few pixels.
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 1:34 pm
The following lists are basically just my own opinion, and exist merely as a starting point on updating all the bloodlines and clans.
Bloodlines and clans from here on out should be separated by a few main factors.
Bloodlines have special powers that must be unlocked. Clans have special jutsu that can be learned, but do not have to be unlocked. Something else I can't remember.
Clans to Keep
Aburame
Aburame need a proper bug system matching our current systems. Other than that, just an update overall.
Akimichi
Akimichi need a system governing their pills. Possibly also a system relating to eating to gain either chakra, or some other bonus. Possibly a reserve charged by eating that is only accessed by the pills.
Inuzuka
Battle pet system, and general updates.
Nara
General updates. Also remove the second stage.
Yamanaka
Already done! Yay!
Ushio
Ushio need general updates to fit current rules and systems.
Clans to Remove
Hoshigaki
Hoshigaki exist for the sole purpose of being a blue fish man and getting a suiton bonus. Not worth keeping.
Lothar
This clan has been locked for years, time to let it go.
Clan exists for the sole purpose of metagaming, and is badly made at that.
Wind Sage
This “Clan” seems to hold very little purpose beyond a bonus to fuuton power, and the power of flight. Yes, flight. Just, no.
Dragonil
Overall this “Clan” isn't too bad. But because it's completely, down to it's rules, limitations, and second stage, based on an anime character who is not from Naruto, I feel it should be removed.
Blackwing
Summon disguised as a clan.
Bushin?
Simply seems to hold very little purpose and offers little to nothing to the guild.
Sarutobi
The only bonuses this clan gives are rather unfair. It seems to exist for the sole purpose of having a Sarutobi clan. Not really worth it.
Clans to make Bloodlines
Kumo (Name Change?)
This clan could be made into a fairly interesting bloodline with very little effort. Simply touching it up all around to remove references and such that don't fit the guild would make it quite usable, and I could easily see it becoming popular.
Suigin (Old Version Updated)?
I liked this clan before someone changed it to use mercury instead of silver. Reverting to it's original version and updating from there could give us a very nice bloodline.
Enjin?
Monkey people. Doesn't fit as a clan, but if we don't mind having monkey people, it could be updated to an interesting bloodline. Monkey people.
Otosan?
For some reason I've never liked this clan. Don't actually know much about it though really. All I do know is that it'd fit better as a bloodline than a clan.
Bloodlines to Keep
Sharingan
I've got updates to this one mostly done already. Just waiting on input for finalization.
Byakugan
This one is obviously being kept, but needs extensive work to make sure it's balanced and awesome.
Shikotsumyaku (Kaguya)
Our current version of this is garbage. No real arguing that. But it's actually an incredibly simple bloodline to fix up.
Tendril
Bit harder than most to balance, but I think with enough work we could do this one justice. Maybe tone down the heart theft a bit though.
Kagura
This one is already mostly updated. Just needs more jutsu.
Ink Artistry (Needs new name badly)
Besides a new name, this one is going to need to be balanced against the sealing system and given general updates all around. Not too hard, but likely time consuming.
Jiton
A few rules need to be altered on this one, and possibly a few more major changes too. Overall though this one shouldn't be hard to update.
Houzuki?
For me it's hard to say on this one. It's really dang cool, being a shapeshifter and all, but it needs to be balanced against that rather overly inconvenient intangibility they have going on.
Kansatsuryoku
Already updated and thoroughly awesome.
Soma no Ko
Some people don't like this one because it basically gives you two characters. Me, I think if it's fixed up properly it makes a really cool bloodline. Ditch the whole possession thing though, cause that's weird, even if it is based on Sakon and Ukon.
Konaga
This one needs to be toned down in some areas to balance properly with our current rules, but it's been a staple of the guild for forever. Maybe during updates we can tone it down enough to where you don't need to be Cobra level to use it properly.
Bloodlines to Remove
Chakra Mouth (Maybe remake as Bakuton?)
This bloodline was created before the actual bloodline was revealed in the manga. And honestly, it's weird. Dude has extra mouths, which is weird enough, but said mouths also allow him to create explosives. Weird. It also is a bit OP, because explosives. I'd say if we wanted it, it should be completely remade as Bakuton.
Ranmaru
I still intend to fix this someday, but in current form, it's unusable.
Origami
This bloodline makes little to no sense at the best of times, and conflicts a lot with our current systems.
Smoke
It's the intangibility of Houzuki, plus the power of flight! Oh, and they can kill someone by flying inside of them... Yeah.
PCM
Already been locked and removed years ago. Time to take it off the lists.
Pin Point
This bloodline seems to serve little to no purpose. It's main abilities are based around a field that has since been expanded upon, and it no longer fits.
Tanabata
I don't even know what this bloodline is supposed to be.
Raite
This one just bugs me for some reason.
Naga?
No offense to Zin, but this bloodline is OP as can be. And being entirely based around Orochimaru, it's a bit weird.
Kyuuketsuki
All I know about this one is that it has Rinnegan eyes, and it's powers only really work if there's more than one bloodline member.
Anigan (Possibly recycle)
Shapeshifters focused on animals, mostly. This is basically Inuzuka on steroids. Really, the best plan for this one would be to recycle it for Inuzuka jutsu.
Puppet
We removed the puppet system already, and this bloodline is also OP.
Bloodlines to make Clans
Hatake
This “Bloodline” only ever had one jutsu, which basically just made a fairly rare branch of ninjutsu slightly more powerful. Besides that, it had an undefined custom weapon only one member could have, and a free speed type. All in all, it wasn't a bloodline. But if it's kept, as a clan as it should be, it desperately needs a new skill set, because as it is it's a free speed type you have to apply for.
Bloodline/Clans to change to Other
Storm Release?
I don't really know much about this one, but it seems to be just a power boost to Raiton and a bunch of souped up raiton jutsu. If that's the case, surely there's a better place for it than bloodlines or clans.
Mokuton/Hyouton/Crystal
My stance on all three of these is the same. I like them, I think they should all exist, but I think they should be made “Universal”, with special requirements to access them. This would make it possible to have a different bloodline, and still use the cool combination type jutsu. Because really, for the most part these are just jutsu lists.
Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
Eloquent Lunatic
Offline
TvIaMsOqTuHeYz
Dangerous Loiterer
Offline
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:25 pm
Fixed your little slip ups, mostly just moving one .
Name
Description/History
Rules
Name:
Passive Abilities
Name: <(Bonus/Penalty)>
Active Abilities
Name: <(Bonus/Penalty)>
Not useful anymore, but don't feel like deleting it.
Not entirely certain you'll really look at it, but here's my thoughts on stuff, since I'm leaving and all, might as well put my input in while I still can. Only putting input in on the stuff that I actually have useful input.
Aburame:
First, you guys need to define the capabilities of the Kikachu. Should they just drain chakra, can they literally eat people, or are they effectively chakra tags for tracking? After that, maybe set up the bloodline with a miniature class system, where over the ranks you can select different benefits for the kikachu. Obviously more difficult, but more interesting. Then designate the techniques you want to see. Should they just control their insects, or like Shino did and be able to have control over all insects? [except bees apparently]
Akimichi:
I had started on a system, but I think it got scrapped because of something, or I just lost faith in my own ability to make it. I'd say give them a Calorie meter, and have the pills convert the calories to chakra instantly, but have a burnout system as well. Look to the Konaga system for pain to get a feel for a system like that, and see where that course takes you. Definitely only limit them to the 3 canon pills though. Have the mortality rate increase with each pill, but have it fairly possible to survive. However if someone pops like 200 calories by eating all of the pills at once, they're going to die. I'd scale the pills to 25, 50, and 125 for the calories that they can convert to chakra. Also, have some of their actual clan techniques require calories as well as chakra, so they'll think twice about popping the pills. The pills WERE meant as a last resort kind of thing, and Choji couldn't expand his body [or didn't need to] after eating the pills, especially the last one. [had quite a bit to say on that one what with me having already tried to make it once.]
Inuzuka:
Maybe give them a talent for the pet itself. Maybe a mini class system for it, giving it increased speed, or strength. It shouldn't scale with the shinobi themselves. Otherwise you end up with a wolf at sannin level eventually. Terrifying, and really OP.
Hoshigaki:
I still like Hoshigaki, and kinda want them to stick around. They are kinda pointless as is, and more for the lol factor.
Kumo: THANK YOU! FINALLY IT WON'T BE A CLAN ANYMORE!
I'd like to see them capable of doing multiple things with their hands. Maybe a conditional thing where if they have support or chakra control they can use two jutsu at once, or an innate passive where they can use multiple tai/bukijutsu, within reason. That being said, to balance that out, I'd see it viable that they'd be more combat based and so they'd get a genjutsu weakness. All in all, if they'd have had those benefits, I'd have played that instead of so many other bloodlines/clans.
Tendril:
I'd like to see more along the lines of instead of the masks or anything like that, body part snatching instead. Like if your arm gets broken, and there happens to be one lying around, just swap them out. That's what I always though Kakuzu did, instead of actually healing. Also, more techniques based around the tendrils themselves. Also Kakuzu's flying fists and tunneling fists would be awesome to see. Remove the bit about the hearts, unless we want the person to just be able to survive more killing blows than most people. That's mostly what the hearts were for anyway.
Houzuki:
The intangibility thing costs chakra, so after a certain point, you'd easily be able to run them out of uses. Maybe add a cooldown so they can't do it constantly. Or make them weak to elemental attacks while in that form. Because if they get doton used on them, they're now soaked up in the earth. Or if they get hit with Raiton, make them instantly solidify. Maybe katon makes them solidify slightly, or when they solidify, parts are missing depending on what was hit. Give them regenerative abilities while they're in the water, like if they're missing an arm, they have to spend the day in the water, or a long time at the very least. they ARE just water. also, give them a nucleus. A control point rather than true intangibility. So, while they're intangible, they've still got a bubble of solid bits.
Soma no Ko:
I like this bloodline, first one I played, sentimental value. I DON'T like your plans for it. Too weak to do much starting out, without some major help. That being said, if they started at the level of their peers and just petered out later in the ranks, I'd be fine with it. Starting point bad, ending point awesome.
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:26 pm
Hinote: Not a lot of disagreements.
Inuzuka: If we are seriously considering the ability to train combat pets, Inuzuka would become obsolete. Dont know if that idea died out or something just felt it needed to be mentioned.
You already know im going to say this but... Mokuton and Crystal should remain bloodlines (or clans). (If we keep crystal at all) although i personally think its silly that they are considered combination elements. Hyouton should also remain a bloodline, but should treat Hyouton as a specialized version of Suiton. Do we really need to have this argument again?
Timmy: Aburame: Kikaichuu have been defined clearly, all we need to look into is a unit type system to track them (and tune chakra drain to unit type rather than just jutsu itself). Other bugs do exist but are treated as a technology and must be located. Evolutions should be removed (If they havent already) because they are silly. Limiting Aburame to only half of an element is nonsensical all around. They have some degree of control over their own bugs within sight (thats why Aburame jutsu cost chakra) but need to actually communicate for many things (such as information gathering).
Akimichi: Sounds overcomplicated to me, I'd recommend trying a simpler solution.
Hoshigaki: We are trying to eliminate pointless bloodlines and clans. If you really want you can try and write up a new version which serves a purpose but isnt OP, but otherwise it simply isnt worth keeping. Lol factor (what little there is) isnt enough.
Hikaro_rin Crew
Offline
TvIaMsOqTuHeYz
Dangerous Loiterer
Offline
Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:29 pm
@Hikaro Aburame: I'm still unclear on if they're capable of actually eating someone. Though apparently they can be used to cut someone. I'm meaning what they can do physically. Evolutions are still mentioned in the clan. Those two points should be mentioned in the clan rather than just be assumed people know.
Akimichi: It really isn't over complicated. Food -> Calories, Pill&Calories -> Chakra, Too many Pills -> Dead. Writing up the system itself is nearly as easy as that example. The hard part comes in agreeing upon the numbers, what food gives what caloric levels, how many calories a rank should have, etc. etc. Then set which ranks can use which pills, and how many of each pill, and actually make it so eating a certain pill won't immediately kill you.
Hoshigaki: Wasn't trying to argue for it to stay, just saying I was sad to see it go.
Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 7:47 am
@Hikaro: Inuzuka pets are still fairly unique even if, if, we do make a full battle pet system anyone can use. Such as, canon shows us that Inuzuka pets can eventually learn to use some jutsu, and sometimes even talk. Normal pets wouldn't gain either of those things. Honestly the only difficulty in Inuzuka systems would be figuring out how to scale the pet's growth. It'd be completely unfair for the pet to be equal to the owner, but too much weaker and it becomes useless. Suppose we could have some sort of system where pets get custom stats that can be updated after rank gains, but the stats have to be approved by a mod? Iunno.
On combination Bloodlines, I don't think we need to argue about it again either, but input from others is still a good thing. Not to mention I don't think we ever came to a full agreement or decision on it.
@Hikaro/Timmy: Kikaichu shouldn't be able to eat people. Except maybe corpses or something.
@Timmy: Calories is a weird system to use, simply because they're a real thing that people actually count. For that to work we'd have to do actual research so the system matched reality, but it still wouldn't, because if it did, gaining the calories necessary would happen so fast it'd kill a normal human. I'd considered a food system they could use to quickly restore chakra by eating, and if they had full chakra they could instead send the "Points" to a reserve (Basically the same as your calories) which would be accessible by using the pills, and perhaps some jutsu as you said. The complication there becomes the fact we'd have to then make an actual food system, governing what food has what restorative value, and place the foods in the world somewhere, either with prices or acquisition methods. It'd be something good to do anyways probably, but a whole lotta work to just enhance one clan a bit.
Kumo won't get the ability to use extra jutsu due to their hands. That's a debate that's already been had and settled years ago. Simply put, it's too mentally taxing to do two different complicated series of hand seals at once. maybe the ability to cast the same jutsu twice by using both sets, and certainly they could use any jutsu that apply to the hands on all of them at once. But really, the benefits of having extra hands are pretty much just the fact that you have extra hands. ... Kumo would make amazing puppet users in our current systems...
Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
Eloquent Lunatic
Offline
TvIaMsOqTuHeYz
Dangerous Loiterer
Offline
Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 3:15 pm
Just because I'm actually around, I'll post again, and I don't have a whole lot longer to be around.
Aburame: Okay, I wasn't certain because they actually burrow into the Aburame.
Akimichi: I'm not talking ACTUAL calories. I mean just giving food a certain amount of calories it makes, and having that as the reserve. And Pills are how you activate the reserve.
Kumo: I think the name could be changed to Gumo, which is actually spider in Japanese, Or even just call it Jorogumo, after the famous Yokai. I'm just thinking that if they have Support and Chakra control they could do it. It can't be THAT mentally taxing, since Combo users are capable of doing it. But, that's already been decided, so no point rehashing that.
Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 3:41 pm
Combo users don't have the ability to cast two jutsu simultaneously. They can cast two in one post, meaning one after the other.
That said, support type would pretty much be wasted on a character with four arms. XD
Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
Eloquent Lunatic
Offline
Hinote Tosatsu Vice Captain
Eloquent Lunatic
Offline
Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:13 am
A thought I had earlier that I'd just like to get down before I lose it.
I've said before that there should be a clear difference between clans and bloodlines. Clans are basically just a specialized jutsu list that is only available to that clan, while bloodlines have some extra power that is right in their DNA, such as special eyes or extra limbs.
That being said, clans aren't all that special, and don't really need that much monitoring to make sure they aren't misused, assuming we make the split properly. So, I would like to propose that we make the difference between bloodlines and clans a bit more evident, by making it possible to take a clan without needing an application. You'd still need an app to get a clan after profile approval as some like to do of course, but it would just be a formality. Essentially the change would mean that players could choose a clan and simply have it approved with their profile, with no samples required. Bloodlines, being more powerful, would still require applications and samples as normal. This change, I feel, would make clans a bit more open to everyone, without the hassle of applying and the worry of being denied for an inferior sample, despite applying for something very simple in the first place.
I'm almost tempted to tack on the idea of having both a bloodline and clan, but that's pushing it I think, and far more problematic.
Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 3:40 pm
To be honest, I'd go as far as saying anyone could pick up some clan jutsu. The only difference is that they are much harder to learn without belonging to that clan and probably less effective.
But I'd support a split between clan's and bloodlines. But I don't want clans to feel unimportant either.
Martin Spiralwave Crew
Offline
Lance Fulgurant Crew
Offline
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 12:08 pm
I think that as it stands allowing people to get membership in a clan approved with their profile with needing an app would be fine, but for the time being I still think that we shouldn't allow bloodlines and clans, maybe one day that would be cool, but for now, no.
And as for Martin's suggestion, I don't really like the idea of people being able to learn clan jutsu outside of the clan, unless it's some kind of story arc reward or some other extremely rare circumstance. Otherwise what's the point of even having the clans?
Posted: Thu Jul 31, 2014 1:16 pm
Yeah, Bloodline and clan is always a stretch, and not usually a safe one to make. Just for the heck of it I decided to wander over to NUR for some fun antics, and made myself the most overpowered combination I could come up with while still being a sensible character, and got it approved with no proof of ability whatsoever. Pretty sure they'll regret that later. twisted Which is to say, without proper screening and a ton of unofficial rules it'd be almost impossible to keep proper balance while allowing combinations. Better probably to take anything we feel could be safely combined and just make it universal in some way.
I also don't like the idea of just anyone learning clan jutsu. Clan jutsu are given to clans for a reason. They're a lot more basic than bloodline jutsu, but still fairly specialized, and allowing just anyone to learn them would completely defeat the point of clans. And taking value away from clans is the last thing we want to do if we're trying to make them more accessible at the same time.
Taking the app requirement away from clans will almost definitely fill up clans a lot more, because it's easier to get them than bloodlines. In turn, that makes more people interested in all the clans nobody ever took before, which is great. Though it also means we should get to work soon on clan revamps so we have more than a few to choose from.
