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 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:08 am
I have been doing a study about God's love, and I'll post later on my findings, but I want to know the general consensus on this forum.
Is the belief "Love the Sinner and hate the Sin" Biblical? Please explain the reasons by which you believe in the affirmative or in the negative.
Can a theology based partially on love and partially on hate give way to more hatred and less love?
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Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:58 am
I wouldn't have used that phrase, but it is accurate now that I think about it. Both our Heavenly Father and Messiah say the same thing: Quote: Ezekiel 33:11 (NIV) 11 Say to them, ‘As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign Lord, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, people of Israel?’ Quote: Luke 13:1-5 (NIV) 13 Now there were some present at that time who told Jesus about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. 2 Jesus answered, “Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans because they suffered this way? 3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. 4 Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.” Quote: 2 Peter 3:9 (NIV) 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. Quote: John 8:11 (NIV) 11 “No one, sir,” she said. “Then neither do I condemn you,” Jesus declared. “Go now and leave your life of sin.” Then of course, the apostles continued the same message: [ »] He wants people to stop cherishing sin, turn away from it and unto him, so he can save them. He hates sin, not the human who has fallen slave to sin. Their wickedness (which he likens to an illness) is the problem ( mk 2:17). If you don't let him heal you, you will die / if you don't let him wash you, you have no part with him ( jn 13:5-14). You may like a dress but not the stains on it: those stains don't belong there; they're not a part of the original design. He doesn't leave the marred pot "marred", he reshapes it ( jer 18:4-10). He will destroy those who choose to stay marred and unwashed, who commit violence against his creations and deviate from his original design with no intentions of returning—that will be their fate if they don't repent, all for the sake of those who have been healed and washed. There will come a time when he will stop waiting for people to repent and start destroying them for the sake of the ones who did repent. ( is 55:6-7; mt 24:22; lk 18:7; rev 9:20-21) Keeping an accurate definition of love is necessary to understand: ( 1 cor 13:4-7; eph 5:2; 1 jn 3:16; mt 5:44). Love isn't a feeling, but a decision to treat humanity a certain way: acting for the benefit of others regardless of how they treat you (hence dying for us while we were still his enemies and the command to love our enemies: to treat them politely, protect them, without easily getting angry at them, being patient with them, telling them the truth, fighting for the justice they deserve despite being an enemy, etc...). Love is also expressed by meeting the needs of others—not their every whim and desire, but what they need—doing so for their benefit and edification, giving them opportunities to reconcile with you, not holding grudges forever with no chance of repairing. In a way, love is a one-sided thing. The saved don't cherish sin, they cherish him and his way. We don't rejoice with evil and neither does he. Notice he only dwells with the washed. He may visit the unwashed for the purpose of healing them, but he doesn't permanently fellowship with them if they insist on staying dirty ( rev 21-22). Sinners don't exist in Eden. That's where we're going to live after the millenial reign on earth; it's after his return and after the 1000 years that people get thrown into the lake of fire ( rev 20). Nothing says, "I hate sin" like a lake of fire.
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Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:03 am
That is what I have found, I couldn't site references like real eyes did, I've always been bad at remembering where exactly I read something...
It's not that the people are bad to the bone so to speak, it's that they make bad decisions which effect how we perceive them. Showing love to these people can sometimes make a huge difference in their lives when they see that not everyone just looks at the surface and takes them for what they appear to be. Not going to say you can find the good in all people either, but good and bad is only the actions that the people do, not their souls and themselves (hopefully that make sense, it sounded good to me but I understand myself better than most XD)
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Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2013 8:50 am
My pastor's pet peeve is when people attribute this quote to the Bible. It's from Gandhi.
While God may hate the sin, but love the sinner, I don't believe that means that God wants us to hate the sins of anyone except ourselves.
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High-functioning Werewolf
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Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 8:47 am
As has been said already, that direct quote is not from the Bible, no. The idea behind it, however, is supported by scripture. The notion of loving one's fellow man but hating sinful actions is a common biblical theme.
However, I think one has to be very careful when implicating this philosophy in practise, because as humans, it can be very difficult for us to separate people from their actions, whether their actions are sinful or not. To err on the side of caution, I tend to agree with Miss Ophelia's statement that the only sins we should put too much energy into identifying and "hating" are our own sins.
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2013 7:06 pm
 regardless if the quote is in the Bible or not I think it still has good meaning behind it.
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 11:49 am
Subliminal Aftermath regardless if the quote is in the Bible or not I think it still has good meaning behind it. I completely agree with the sentiment that just because something is not directly from scripture doesn't mean that it's wrong or bad. A surprisingly large amount of quotes and/or concept associated with Christianity are not directly derived from scripture, but that doesn't make them unworthy of consideration. However, I feel that the "Love the sinner, hate the sin" quotation is something that is thrown around too much, and is often used to justify some horrifyingly unloving acts. Anything that involves hatred of any kind should be taken as a warning sign to tread carefully. As humans beings, we often can't help but judge people by their actions, because...well, we're human. We're fallible. We're not omniscient. We can't see into people's hearts the way God can. And the way I see it, it is not my job to judge the sins of others. I'd be a hypocrite if I did. So I'd rather concern myself with showing all people love and compassion. Their sins are between them and God.
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 5:10 pm
True but it's a nice reminder that we shouldn't be so harsh with judgement cause we aren't God. LOL sorry made a typo, meant SHOULDN'T not SHOULD.
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Posted: Tue May 07, 2013 8:27 pm
I agree, people can get way too harsh when it comes to judging.
I know that everyone is guilty of it but it's nice to have a quote to remind us to at least keep it toned down because we are all going to be judged in the end.
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Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 8:43 am
Subliminal Aftermath True but it's a nice reminder that we should be so harsh with judgement cause we aren't God. What do you mean that we should be harsh?
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Alashuko The Fighter Crew
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Posted: Wed May 08, 2013 12:28 pm
Alashuko The Fighter Subliminal Aftermath True but it's a nice reminder that we should be so harsh with judgement cause we aren't God. What do you mean that we should be harsh? That's a typo D: I meant to say shouldn't.
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 6:05 am
Subliminal Aftermath Alashuko The Fighter Subliminal Aftermath True but it's a nice reminder that we should be so harsh with judgement cause we aren't God. What do you mean that we should be harsh? That's a typo D: I meant to say shouldn't. Oh. Lol. That's alright.
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Alashuko The Fighter Crew
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Intellectual Elocutionist
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Posted: Thu May 09, 2013 2:04 pm
...I have a feeling I'm not going to fit in here.
I don't feel that scripture supports this saying at all. Scripture doesn't say that individuals should judge sin or humanity - it leaves that to God. It is pretty clear that sin is not loved by God, but it's also pretty clear that Jesus' example was one of unconditional love, not loving only the parts deemed un-sinful (which wouldn't be any of us, since we are all sinful as a product of the Fall).
In my mind, it's less that I disagree and more that I think it's irrelevant. We should all strive to live in a way we consider to be less sinful, but yet we will all ultimately fail and would be condemned except by the grace of God. So, it's not really relevant as far as whether or not we love, hate, or feel completely indifferent to sin as a general thing or even sin as an amorphous concept. Sin is not just a tally of bad things a person does, sin is a paradigm of existence, and paradigms really can't be loved or hated in such simple terms.
Sin is something to strive against, and of course it's true that the Bible calls sinners to repent. But repentance doesn't, in my mind, mean hating oneself or one's sin, but rather acknowledging it and striving to place that at a lower priority than the priorities of Christ. I think preoccupying oneself with sin itself fails on those terms, so in essence I don't agree with the statement by and large.
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Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 12:22 pm
Keakealani ...I have a feeling I'm not going to fit in here. Oh, you might be surprised. wink
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Intellectual Elocutionist
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Posted: Fri May 10, 2013 2:40 pm
SinfulGuillotine Keakealani ...I have a feeling I'm not going to fit in here. Oh, you might be surprised. wink
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