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Formerly called the NCS, this is a place for communists and socialists to talk about communism and socialism. 

Tags: Marxism, Communism, Socialism, Political, Left 

Reply MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism
Objectivism: The Enemy of Laborers and Common Sense

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Symorin

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:37 pm


A shadow is haunting the Republican party. Corrupting it, twisting it, bending it; it is the shadow of Objectivism. Of all the issues with Capitalism, this is perhaps the one that even common men and women can state that they're firmly against.

It declares selfishness, unwillingness to risk yourself for the greater good, and greed to all be "virtues". It measures worth in cash, and it says the single greatest "Evil" in the world is to sacrifice your life for the sake of saving another.

What is Objectivism?


Objectivism is a "philosophy" developed by the Russian-American Author Ayn Rand. In Rand's Philosophy, she believed that all things in reality are objective, that you should only perform an action if you have a "rational" (IE it benefited you in some way) reason to, and that "evil" is merely anything that makes you, the individual, unhappy.

Link

Objectivists frequently like to declare Taxes to be "Theft" and that Government regulation is "Force" (They compare it to a man holding a gun to your head and ordering you to do what he says). Objectivists believe that man should not be "responsible" or have some binding "duty" to anything or anyone if it didn't "benefit them". Anything at all, from saving someone's life to even the sacred pact of Marriage. If you got no physical benefit from it, it was "evil" and thrown away like a piece of trash.

It idolized the rich, after all they had "The Skills" to run their business, and clearly "did more work" and were overall "more intelligent" then all those in their employ. It also demonized the poor, it shamed people begging for money, and when asked about how to solve poverty it ignorantly and harshly declares "The poor should just stop being lazy and get a job!" It derides anyone who uses a government provided service as a "looter" and "parasite". It even has the gall to say that a Government's sole duty is to ensure no one invades the country and no one violates business contracts.

This is what's wrong with the country. We like to attack the Republican party for their love of "The Holy Job Creators" yet we've ignored the source of the problem: Objectivism. It's objectivism that promotes selfishness, that promotes this stubborn unwillingness to raise taxes, and it's objectivism that's infiltrated the leadership of both the Tea Party Movement and The Republican Party. Former Vice-Presidential Candidate Paul Ryan had even approached the "Atlas Institute" (an Objectivist Organization) and gave Ayn Rand the vocal equivalent of a "tongue bath". He showered her with praise, and almost seemed to worship her "ideology".

Link

So, everyone, I would like to ask a simple question: What should we do to oppose this Objectivist Philosophy that, essentially, is almost the ruling ideology of the one of the largest political parties in the U.S.? In my opinion, we should organize and oppose demands to make "Atlas Shrugged" (A.K.A. "The Objectivist Bible") Mandatory Public Reading in college, and we should also work to formulate public arguments against Objectivism as well.

In my opinion, Objectivism is the single largest threat to stability in the U.S. government. It's an ideology I believe we should oppose not just for moral, but also economic and rational reasons.
PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 12:18 pm


Hi there, Symorin. Welcome to the guild, and thanks for posting your thoughts. Just a few comments in reply for now:

Objectivism certainly has the characteristics you charge it with, but... is it actually such a big deal? How does it compare to the rest of the ideology in the Republican party, and even liberal ideology in the Democratic Party? Is it wrong? I don't think you answered these questions, but they are the most important ones.

Objectivism is the bare ideology of a triumphant capitalist. As such, it's a ******** stupid ideology. Better, from the standpoint of maintaining class rule, to try to hide some of it. But where it declares the state to be oppressive, well, it's correct. The state's whole job is to oppress. The stupid thing about Objectivism is that it ignores the fact that the capitalist state oppresses workers, women, and minorities in the interests of the capitalists. At the same time, however, it isn't actually that stupid: The whole point of recognising the oppressiveness of the state, the nature of taxes as theft (and seriously, if you don't pay taxes, you are threatened with fines, gaol time, or other sanctions. How is that not theft and extortion? You may say it is JUSTIFIED theft and extortion, but it will be hard to call it anything else) is not just some idiotic refusal to recognise the basis fo their class rule, but a rather rational. On the one hand, capitalists like a cheap state. Because taxes suck. On the one hand, taxes deprive the capitalist of capital to make them richer. On the other hand, it deprives their workers of money to spend on the goods they make. Since the job of the state is to ensure the rule of the ruling class, its core responsibilities are maintaining the class rule fo the capitalists against both the workers it exploits at home, and the foreign capitalists it competes with, and maintaining the 'rule of law' among the capitalists themselves to make sure capital circulates smoothly. To say that its sole duty is these may be a bit shortsighted, in that most capitalists recognise the need for other things in order to make society run smoothly so that the core responsibilities of the state are easier to manage, but that's a question of technique, not principles.

The other thing is that the rate of profit is constantly declining. (Explanation) So in order to maintain a steady rate of profit, the capitalists have to make or find new markets, cheaper sources of labour, and cheaper resources to undercut their competitors and maintain a high rate of profit. This is where the hatred of the welfare state comes in: The state owns these things that it pays for through taxes. As such, they don't supply profit to anyone. By selling these things off, by getting the private sector to take care of these things, means they become an avenue for investment and profit. The argument by these types that government ownership is inefficient is shown to be nonsense by the experience of the US post office, a government owned company, but one not run by the government, and not funded by the government (essentially a normal company, but one with 100% of the shares owned by the state), that the Republicans legislated a whole bunch of hurdles against, and then Obama's former advisor who now runs it advocates selling it off. Here we see that the issue is not inefficiency, but profitability: They want to sell it precisely because it is profitable, and therefore a viable investment option. The thing is, capitalism is just SO ******** PRODUCTIVE that is produces way more than it can possibly sell. So much, in fact, that profitability is declining hugely. If it sells these things at a 'market price' determined by supply and demand, then it cannot recoup the costs of capital and labour. If it sells these things at production cost then it has a ******** huge stockpile leftover going to wast, in which case what's the point of new productive technology? Well, because other capitalists are selling. The rate of profit is declining, but it isn't zero, so for as long as it is profitable to produce and sell, no matter how weak that profit, they will do so. But the logic of capitalism points to these constant crises. And so the logic of capitalism points, in this age, not to the making of a harmonious welfare state, but its systematic dismantling. This is why all sections of the capitalist class agree about privatisation, the only question they disagree on is what should be privatised now, how fast should it be privatised, and so on. The same thing with regards to regulations: They hurt profits, so they must be dismantled. Profit is declining, so new regulations cannot be made with any regularity of success, nor stability of duration. Capitalism is entering its death spiral.

So here we come to the other question I asked: How does it compare to the ideologies of the 'mainstream' Republican Party, and the liberalism of the Democrats? It differs only in this: That it is more bold, more forthright, and that it draws all the tendencies out to their conclusion and doesn't balk at the creation of a morality to justify it. That is all.

So, when nothing can be done about it in practice, and when its core ideas are present in both parties and in all the candidates for both parties, what can be done about it? What can be done to fight it? I leave that as an exercise for the reader. smile

Le Pere Duchesne
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Symorin

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2012 6:10 pm


Le Pere Duchesne


Thanks, I'm glad to be here. ^_^

Anyways, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with this notion of "Taxes being theft". All currency is, inherently, worthless until the people (or the state) give it value. Gold was considered to have "value" to ancient peoples simply because it looked valuable. It was easy to carry and didn't disappear with time, and so it was made the currency of ancient times. Later, the state had begun printing it's own currency (due to issues arising with Gold, but I'd rather not drag this off topic) and while first backing that currency with Gold, it eventually decided to assign value to that currency itself.

All money is printed by the state and distributed through the banks. Currency is merely a tool to make purchasing easier. In a sense, currency is a "gift" of the state or the people as a whole to negotiate the purchasing of goods without having to bargain with other goods in return. It is a creation of the state and enforced by a sort of subconscious "agreement" of society as a whole to give that currency "value".

In a sense, Taxes are just the state reclaiming a portion of what belongs to it, and using that money (which it itself created) to ensure society functions properly. If the state wants to use that money for noble things (such as providing healthcare and inexpensive education) or... Not so noble things (such as weapons technologies) is entirely up to the state. Theft, is only when you steal someone's property. Money is difficult to classify as a property because it's distributed by the state, given value by both the people and the state and it is not uniquely "yours" in any sense. You never get the exact same dollar you deposit in the bank when you withdraw it and, in essence, dollars are just a symbol of intangible "value" and nothing more.

Value is intangible and can't be stolen. You can't claim to "own" value, and money is merely an empty vessel to be filled with some "soul" of value. The state may be decreasing the amount of Value you can trade with by taking some of those "vessels" of value for itself, but it's not stealing simply because it's the one that give that "value" in the first place, and it has the sole right to reclaim and direct that value in certain directions.
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MCS: Marxism, Communism, Socialism

 
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