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Shinobi Type Revamp [Guildwide Debate] Goto Page: 1 2 [>] [»|]

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Hinote Tosatsu
Vice Captain

Eloquent Lunatic

PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:24 pm


In the course of revamping the systems, it has occasionally come up that shinobi types need edits and expansion. The purpose of this thread is quite simple then. If you have any ideas for a shinobi type that is not included in the list below, please, share. Further, if you feel there are any problems with those that are in the list, let us know how you think they could be made better. This particular thread will be a joint crew-member effort, as everyone is equally encouraged to share their ideas and thoughts.

Shinobi Types


Offensive:
This users attacks are stronger and defense is good, but the draw back to this Ninja Type is that they use lots of chakra fast and it takes longer for them to learn.
(+1 rank for jutsu power level, +1 extra post for learning jutsu, 1.5 x chakra cost of base jutsu [rounded up] for all Offensive jutsu)


Defensive:
This user has stronger defensive jutsu, but their Offensive jutsu cost significantly more chakra, the basics of this type of ninja is to wear down the opponent, using their great defenses to block and deflect incoming attacks, and then use the few Offensive jutsu they know finish the weakened ninja off.
(Defensive Jutsu are 1 rank stronger, Offensive Jutsu cost 2x base chakra cost)


Long Range:
This ninja is best at long range jutsu and weaker in the close combat type of fighting and jutsu. Because these shinobi focus so much on keeping distance between themselves and their opponent, they do not train there bodies to be as tough as most shinobi.
(Jutsu are +1 rank stronger when used at long range, but they are more vulnerable to attack, treating any attack as if it were 1 rank higher in terms of damage done if they are hit)


Support:
Support type ninja are people who use jutsu to help other ninja in attacking, defense and any other type of need a fellow ninja would have. This ninjas is usually well rounded in jutsu knowing a wide range of jutsu from long range, short range and so on. These ninja are faster at learning jutsu and faster at using them too.
(Jutsu -2 posts to learn jutsu, can perform jutsus that are below their without hand-seals, jutsus of equal rank can be performed with far fewer hand-seals, allowing the support shinobi to get off a quick jutsu in close quarters, jutsus of higher rank require the normal number of hand-seals.)


Speed Shinobi:
Like the name says these ninja are faster and more agile then normal ninja, allowing them to more easily avoid attacks, and to close distances equally fast.
(Move, dodge, and attack speed is one rank higher, hard for anyone below Jounnin to even track these ninja)


Tactical Ninja:
These are the Shinobi most often to be picked as leaders of shinobi teams, able to come up with strategies and adapt to battlefield conditions quickly and efficiently. Being highly intelligent, learning jutsu comes quite easily to these shinobi, allowing them to acquire a vast array of jutsus for any situation.
(-3 posts for learning jutsu, reaction speed is one rank higher)


Summon Specialist
If the user can utilize a summon, being a summon specialist is the way to go. Summons utilized by these ninja are stronger then normal summons, drawing power from the very presence of their summoner. Summoning Specialists are also able to use summons at the rank of Genin. [normally not available until Chuunin]
(Summons are stronger by 1 rank)


Ability Control:(must choose a type ability ex. bug jutsu, ice jutsu, bone jutsu, etc...)
The ninja who have a very specific jutsu type and style are called Ability Ninja. Considering their intense training in one area, these ninja are formidable opponents, normally well beyind their rank when using their specialized jutsu. However, when utilizing anything else, they tend to suffer a drop in power.
(+1 rank in strength of attacks for abilities *ex. people who use bug jutsu only, bug jutsu attacks increase in power*, jutsu not of the chosen type are decreased in power by one rank.)


Elemental Control( Must pick an element, if elemental control is the only shinobi type then the character may pick two elements, universal may also be chosen as an element. If picking two elements then they cannot be opposites, meaning you cannot pick water and fire or wind and lightning, but you could pick lightning and fire)
These ninja are masters of there elements allowing them to learn elemental jutsu with a easier time and make there elemental jutsu stronger. These ninja also get stronger jutsu when in extreme environments with there element. However when they are trying to learn jutsus of other elements they have a much more difficult time, and if they are in an extreme environment with the opposite of their element their jutsus are weaker.
(-3 posts learning of jutsu of their element, +1 rank to jutsu used normally, +2 ranks around the elemental ninjas element, +1 post when learning jutsus not of the shinobis chosen element, -1 rank to power of jutsu when used in an extreme environment near their elements weakness. -1 chakra point cost of all Genin techniques, -2 for all Chuunin, Jounin, and Kage techniques for the chosen element.)


Chakra Control:
This Shinobi is a master of Chakra Control, allowing them to more easily learn to mold their chakra to perform jutsus, as well as allowing them to use their chakra more effeciently when using jutsus. At higher ranks they even learn to mold chakra without the use of hand-seals.
(-2 posts for training, reduced chakra costs (see Chakra System), can perform jutsus that are two or more ranks below you without hand-seals.)


Combo User:
The combo type is for ninja who use there jutsu in a chain to help deliver a devastating overall effect. Stringing multiple jutsu together, these ninja are dangerous, allowing them to overwhelm their opponents with the sheer number of jutsus they can perform.
(Can use 2 jutsu per post, at Jounin can use 3 jutsu per post)


2 Man Team:
This ninja type is that of jutsu which has a partner involved like a dog, animal, other object, or person. They are stronger in all aspects, including physical strength and combination jutsu when teamed up with another. In conjunction with their partners, these ninja are very capable and can effectively double the damage they can output.
(+1 rank on attacks used in conjunction with a partner, combination jutsus are 1 rank stronger as well)


[color=darkred][b]Name:[/b][/color]
[color=darkblue]Description
(Bonus)[/color]
 
PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 10:23 am


I shall start this off then, with some of my own ideas.

Strength:
This shinobi focus on physical power, training their muscles to be stronger than others of their rank.
(+1 rank to strength)


This one is of course a bonus in the trend of speed type, simply put to strength. It's hard to believe we've had speed type for so long, but no strength type, so I submit it for addition.

Chakra Battery:
These shinobi have much larger chakra stores than their peers, making them able to use more chakra techniques at a time without running dry.
(+1/10 base chakra modifier)
Alternately... (Increases base modifier by one rank (Low becomes medium, medium becomes high))
Or... (Replaces chakra modifier with High(5/10))


~~~

In existing types, I feel that two man team should be removed or highly altered. Nobody has taken it in some time, the first benefit is very vague and could be implied to be in effect in almost any situation, and the latter benefit, pending crew decision, could be nullified completely.

Summon specialist - The summon being stronger because of the summoner's type makes little sense. It would be better to follow the trend in the description to make the bonus (Able to summon one rank higher than normal). This would explain the genin summoner aspect, as well as imply some limit on summoning rank, since the systems for summoning are also unfortunately vague.

Ability/Elemental Control - These types, mainly ability, need to be defined a bit better as to exactly what they effect, as I have seen ability used in ways that should be exclusive to elemental. Even in the description that issue crops up, as it mentions it could be used for ice jutsu, when ice should fall in the realm of elemental. In fact, all of the examples seem off to me, following the description.

I'm sure I could come up with issues with almost all of them, but I shall step back for now.

Hinote Tosatsu
Vice Captain

Eloquent Lunatic


TvIaMsOqTuHeYz

Dangerous Loiterer

PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2012 2:43 pm


Specialist:
Many different strategies and techniques exist in this world, and there are specialists for each and every one. Specialist shinobi are uniquely skilled with a specific item, or technique.
( Specialist shinobi gain a +.5 rank in effectiveness when using a specified type of weaponry alone, and a +1 rank when used in conjunction with Nin/Genjutsu. )
PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 7:56 pm


No real ideas but I'll complain about yous guys proposals.

Strength : ehh, no real complaints. I though Tai/weapon specialists gave a strenght boost in which case I'd say this is out, but I like it better as a type anyways.

Chakra Battery: Mixed feelings. It seems a bit much, but at the same time we've been needing a way especially for non bl/clan users to be less underpowered.

Specialist: I like this idea. I don't really like the Nin/Genjutsu bit though since it is supposed to be weapon focused. Perhaps style techniques would be fine. However can this not already be done on a bigger scale with say Ability Control Taijutsu?

-----------------------
2 Man team: It seems like this was made with Inuzuka in mind, but it is obviously not interesting to people, it seems to clumsily blend ability control and support. I agree with removal

Summon Specialist: I think this should be removed completely. I don't see why we need a summoning specialist ninja type AND profession.
Edit: I'm an idiot and was thinking of Sealing or something. I have no idea what to do regarding Summon Specialist.

Ability/Elemental Control: Why not merge the two? They kinda already work in the same area anyway.

Stealth: What happened to it anyway?

Hikaro_rin
Crew


Hinote Tosatsu
Vice Captain

Eloquent Lunatic

PostPosted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:04 pm


Timmy's specialist suggestion really is just a dumbed down version of how Ability is supposed to work.

Elemental gives a bonus to various elemental techniques. Ones that have naturally occuring equivalents that it can draw power from. Ability on the other hand, is total focus on a single jutsu type. One can say, as in the examples, that it covers an entire element or jutsu category, but that feels to me like a bit of a cheat in the latter case, and a rip off of elemental in the former.

With the updated format for jutsu on the other hand, it could be much better focused. Choose offensive or defensive. Supplementary or Stealth. Melee or ranged, and so on. It seems to me like it's supposed to be a highly focused type, but the way it's currently set up is vague, and allows it to cover massive categories.

~

Chakra Battery: It is a bit much depending on which version of the bonus you're looking at. I personally like the first best myself, but used by someone with a high base modifier already it does become a lot. The middle one is interesting, though I personally don't care for it as much as the first, and the last just gives another way to get high chakra. Not sure how I actually feel about that one. The first, also, would be a very minor bonus for one with low chakra, making a total modifier of 1/10. Medium would become 4/10, coming close to high, but not quite, and high becomes 6/10. So it might seem a bit much at a glance, but it's actually not all that much. Unless you gave it to the Kyuubi of course, in which case it'd get a bit higher, though still not a whole lot considering it's only one point.

In that entire thing I seem to have bounced from saying it was a lot to saying it really wasn't quite a few times... I think I may be half asleep and confusing myself.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:02 am


Hikaro_rin
Strength : ehh, no real complaints. I though Tai/weapon specialists gave a strenght boost in which case I'd say this is out, but I like it better as a type anyways.

2 Man team: It seems like this was made with Inuzuka in mind, but it is obviously not interesting to people, it seems to clumsily blend ability control and support. I agree with removal

Summon Specialist: I think this should be removed completely. I don't see why we need a summoning specialist ninja type AND profession.
Edit: I'm an idiot and was thinking of Sealing or something. I have no idea what to do regarding Summon Specialist.

Stealth: What happened to it anyway?


I'm awake now, so I shall respond to the rest of these as best as I can!

Strength: The meless classes do give some bonus to strength I think, but it really is better as a type. Besides that, they should have some bonus anyways, and with the type fully available any stacking between it and their inherent bonus is a bit less drastic. (Everyone can take it mentality! Yay!) However, that is also a problem, if it is a problem, that we can solve during the profession revamps. As a mirror benefit to speed, I truly think this should have existed all along.

Two Man Team: I don't see where support comes in, but it definitely has some ability leanings. I'm not sure we should co for total removal though. There are other, more interesting ways it could be revamped. Of course most of those require having two players who want their characters to always be together and so on, and that's fairly rare. (I am of course referring to the classic method of having the type make them stronger when together, but weaker when separated. Unfortunately with that method it would also no longer apply to pets and such, since, well, an Inuzuka will never be without their dog, and it becomes nothing but a big bonus at that point.)

Summon Specialist: After a PM from Greg on this matter, it turns out that the type was always meant to work as I suggested. It's just badly worded. I say we edit the bonus wording and be done with it. (And harass Greg about getting us that summon system he volunteered to write more often!)

Stealth: I personally don't actually remember this type. Greg says it existed though, so I'm sure it did. By his description though, I'm not sure I want it as a type. I've already suggested it as a profession bonus, and it's not something I really feel would be a good idea to have as common as it would be the minute we made it a type. Especially in combination with Support.

Hinote Tosatsu
Vice Captain

Eloquent Lunatic


Gregar828
Vice Captain

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 7:40 am


The stealth profession was taken out soon after shinobi professions were created, mainly due to the existence of the assassin. We didn't want everyone and their mother using stealth if they weren't really meant to be super stealthy. And as hinote said, it become too OP when paired with certain other types.

As for that summon system, I'll get to then when the important stuff is out of the way.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:57 pm


@ hinote
Ability is put toward bloodlines that don't have a specific element. Like the Aburame. During the creation of the clan, I doubt that it was meant to be considered an element, like the Nara or Inuzuka jutsu function is how I see ability control.

Specialist would work by giving Luo a boost to Senbon usage, making it difficult for even an S rank to dodge his senbon attacks. It would give David a bonus to using his poles which he seems to be fond of. Yamatano would gain a bonus from using it in conjunction with his Fuuma Shuriken. ( Not sure if Yama uses Fuuma or Windmill actually. )

The only think you can't really say is that it works with blades. That is far too vague. Like if you specify Katana is raised, then kenjutsu styles using it are treated as if you were .5 rank faster, or if it involves chakra, a full rank more effective.

Basically it is an Ability control for weapon people.

TvIaMsOqTuHeYz

Dangerous Loiterer


Hinote Tosatsu
Vice Captain

Eloquent Lunatic

PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:31 pm


TvIaMsOqTuHeYz
@ hinote
Ability is put toward bloodlines that don't have a specific element. Like the Aburame. During the creation of the clan, I doubt that it was meant to be considered an element, like the Nara or Inuzuka jutsu function is how I see ability control.

Specialist would work by giving Luo a boost to Senbon usage, making it difficult for even an S rank to dodge his senbon attacks. It would give David a bonus to using his poles which he seems to be fond of. Yamatano would gain a bonus from using it in conjunction with his Fuuma Shuriken. ( Not sure if Yama uses Fuuma or Windmill actually. )

The only think you can't really say is that it works with blades. That is far too vague. Like if you specify Katana is raised, then kenjutsu styles using it are treated as if you were .5 rank faster, or if it involves chakra, a full rank more effective.

Basically it is an Ability control for weapon people.


Ability SHOULD be set up that way though, which is why I suggested the change. It's difficult to really describe succinctly how I think it should be.

Anyways, I'm not sure about having a type specifically for weapons. That is mostly covered by the weapon profession, and can be further enhanced through talents. Types are for universal things that anyone can access, so specialized things like that should be covered more by specialized things.

Side note: Fuuma Shuriken and Windmill Shuriken are the same thing. It's the English version versus the Japanese version.
PostPosted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:53 pm


Ah, I didn't know you were pushing for it to be expanded.

It could be abused, but as of right now Weapon Specialists have no benefit for specific weapons. Plus, Talents are supposed to be more toward quirks for the character that make them unlike anything else. Like Yasashii has Sealing ability beyond what anyone else has in the guild, and beyond what anyone probably will have within the guild. Shinji get's overly excited by battle to the point he is weakened without it. These are unique to the characters, a simple one that makes you really really go with a katana or with a wakizashi isn't a very good talent, although people will most likely make that talent. ( A waste of a purely amazing talent if you ask me. )

Also, to your side note: >.< I've thought the Fuuma was the one the dude used in the beginning. I didn't think they were the same. Thank you for clarifying that Hinote.

TvIaMsOqTuHeYz

Dangerous Loiterer


Hinote Tosatsu
Vice Captain

Eloquent Lunatic

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:41 pm


Jutsu Crafter:
Some ninja, rather than learning jutsu to fight, learn to create. These rare individuals go on to create new jutsu, expanding the arsenal of their clan, their village, or just their friends.
(Unlimited custom jutsu. (Must pick a single field, Nin, Gen, Tai, Fuuin, etc.))


Powerhouse:
Opposite to the combo type, these ninja don't care for the rapid fire tactic, but instead focus on spending the extra time to get a little bit more power out of their jutsu. The longer they hold a jutsu before firing, the more powerful it is.
(Sacrifice post actions to increase jutsu power by .5 ranks per action. Cannot have Combo type.)
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:38 pm


Hinote Tosatsu


Jutsu Crafter: I Like that one, I really really do, it gives some purpose to choosing something other than Speed, Combo and Tactical. It opens the use for other things to combine with this one really. But i have one quesiton; is it Custom Taijutsu and Kenjutsu, or Custom Taijutsu styles and Kenjutsu styles?

Powerhouse: I also like it, the .5 boost is a good boost for basically being unable to pull a jutsu at the last moment, but one question, again, does this boost apply to Taijutsu Style attacks and regular punches?

iAkura-kun

Prophet


Hinote Tosatsu
Vice Captain

Eloquent Lunatic

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:53 pm


Crafter: Honestly I'm not sure this one will go over well without an attached weakness. I intended to put the weakness as requiring weak bodied, but that kind of hurts the taijutsu side of it. Course that in itself could be solved by making a separate taijutsu version. And, considering how I see styles as working, taijutsu or kenjutsu would allow for both techniques and styles.

Powerhouse: No. It's designed for use with ninjutsu. Possibly genjutsu, but not likely. Taijutsu wouldn't make much sense, seeing as you can't "Charge" a taijutsu attack.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:03 pm


Crafter: A good weakness would be an added amount of posts to Non-Custom jutsu, or a chakra penalty for non-custom jutsu. That seems well enough in my opinion. As for that Style bit, I am loving it. The only problem now is the steep cost of the techniques... I'm all against the payment for it... But there isn't anything that can be done now.

Powerhouse: It actually would be good for for genjutsu, instead of charging it, paying a little more chakra [ 1.2 or 1.3 cuz 1.5 just is too much ] to make the effects of a Genjutsu last longer. As for taijutsu or kenjutsu you can indeed charge it by building momentum for it, which would be a good way to which it could work.

iAkura-kun

Prophet


TvIaMsOqTuHeYz

Dangerous Loiterer

PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:30 pm


Powerhouse working for taijutsu... I can only see Popeye twirling his arms to build up momentum to hit Bluto in the face and send him flying.

... I am all for Powerhouse applying to Taijutsu.
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