Welcome to Gaia! ::

The Polyglot's and Linguist's Guild

Back to Guilds

A place where people learning languages or studying linguistics can come to discuss and hang out! 

Tags: language, linguistics, polyglot, linguist, foreign languages 

Reply The Polyglot's and Linguist's Guild
Changing the Name of a Country

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

Eretlen

Dangerous Sophomore

4,300 Points
  • Forum Explorer 100
  • Forum Sophomore 300
  • Hygienic 200
PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2012 7:48 pm
Should English-speakers* change the name they call countries to the name that said country refers to itself?
For example, changing "China" to Zhong Guo, Greece to Ellada, or Germany to Deutschland, etc. Or at least an English translation of the word, similar to France's "États-Unis" for United States, if the name is too difficult to English-speakers.
I've thought of this for a while, but whenever I ask people about it I fail to explain what I mean correctly.
So, what's your opinion?

Note : Sorry if I totally messed up on the names of the countries.

*Any-speaker, really. But since I speak English I can only say it about English. I know that with the Chinese languages, it would probably be kind of weird to totally transliterate.  
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:37 am
No, because even in other languages, they use their own words to refer to other countries besides their own, too. For example, in Japanese, China is 中国 (Chuugoku), South Korea is 韓国 (Kankoku), France is フランス国 (fuuransukoku), and so on.  

Sakura Latte

Magical Fairy

20,300 Points
  • Caroling Champ 100
  • Snowball Hero 200
  • Frozen Solid 200

Eretlen

Dangerous Sophomore

4,300 Points
  • Forum Explorer 100
  • Forum Sophomore 300
  • Hygienic 200
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:45 pm
Sakura Parfait
No, because even in other languages, they use their own words to refer to other countries besides their own, too. For example, in Japanese, China is 中国 (Chuugoku), South Korea is 韓国 (Kankoku), France is フランス国 (fuuransukoku), and so on.


But perhaps just for English?
I see what you mean, I think. From what I understand, the koku's and goku's are a sort of -land suffix. (I'm just sort of assuming this)
The names of countries aren't really set in stone in English, are they, though?  
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:38 am
I know what you mean, and I can see where if it's fairly easy to just pronounce the original it would be easier. When I took German I was really confused looking at maps because for some reason English did things like change "München" to "Munich" and "Köln" to "Cologne". It was really frustrating!  

CambriaCate


Hikaridranz

Lily-livered Hoarder

PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:47 am
nah, I don't think so. The current names have been used for so long, it'll be very confusing to suddenly change everything. You'll have to relearn the names you once knew, and after all that the newer generations will still have to know the old names (if the change is too much to recognise it by the 'new' name) because existing books and records won't magically correct themselves.

and if they were to change, do you expect the words to be pronounced just as in the original language?

Especially since English's already confusing... I can imagine some people pronouncing nihon like how they pronounce nylon. ninja  
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:18 pm
Hikaridranz
nah, I don't think so. The current names have been used for so long, it'll be very confusing to suddenly change everything. You'll have to relearn the names you once knew, and after all that the newer generations will still have to know the old names (if the change is too much to recognise it by the 'new' name) because existing books and records won't magically correct themselves.

and if they were to change, do you expect the words to be pronounced just as in the original language?

Especially since English's already confusing... I can imagine some people pronouncing nihon like how they pronounce nylon. ninja


Nihon like Nylon is still closer than the word Japan. Plus, there are enough snobs in the world to be like no, it's NEE-PONE, not NAI-PUN. At least hopefully. I see what you mean though, I hadn't thought too much of that.
Our dictionaries could just do this:
Quote:
NIPPON jp
The country in blah blah blah.
Referred to as Japan until 20XX.

Of course then, using the jp. to mean Japanese wouldn't work because we would probably need to change the name of the languages as well.  

Eretlen

Dangerous Sophomore

4,300 Points
  • Forum Explorer 100
  • Forum Sophomore 300
  • Hygienic 200

Eretlen

Dangerous Sophomore

4,300 Points
  • Forum Explorer 100
  • Forum Sophomore 300
  • Hygienic 200
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 3:20 pm
CambriaCate
I know what you mean, and I can see where if it's fairly easy to just pronounce the original it would be easier. When I took German I was really confused looking at maps because for some reason English did things like change "München" to "Munich" and "Köln" to "Cologne". It was really frustrating!


Yeah! I get Munchen->Munich.. but changing Köln to Cologne is weird.. perhaps we got the name from what the French called it?  
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:10 pm
Eretlen
Hikaridranz
nah, I don't think so. The current names have been used for so long, it'll be very confusing to suddenly change everything. You'll have to relearn the names you once knew, and after all that the newer generations will still have to know the old names (if the change is too much to recognise it by the 'new' name) because existing books and records won't magically correct themselves.

and if they were to change, do you expect the words to be pronounced just as in the original language?

Especially since English's already confusing... I can imagine some people pronouncing nihon like how they pronounce nylon. ninja


Nihon like Nylon is still closer than the word Japan. Plus, there are enough snobs in the world to be like no, it's NEE-PONE, not NAI-PUN. At least hopefully. I see what you mean though, I hadn't thought too much of that.
Our dictionaries could just do this:
Quote:
NIPPON jp
The country in blah blah blah.
Referred to as Japan until 20XX.

Of course then, using the jp. to mean Japanese wouldn't work because we would probably need to change the name of the languages as well.


from what I've read in Paul Varley's Japanese Culture, the word Japan came from the old Chinese (it doesn't mention specifically what kind of Chinese) pronunciation of nihon, "jihpen", which was then transmitted back to Europe in the 13th century by Marco Polo (who recorded what he heard as "cipangu" ). So it's not like the English language just decided to call Japan "Japan" spontaneously.  

Sakura Latte

Magical Fairy

20,300 Points
  • Caroling Champ 100
  • Snowball Hero 200
  • Frozen Solid 200

Eretlen

Dangerous Sophomore

4,300 Points
  • Forum Explorer 100
  • Forum Sophomore 300
  • Hygienic 200
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:42 pm
Sakura Parfait
Eretlen
Hikaridranz
nah, I don't think so. The current names have been used for so long, it'll be very confusing to suddenly change everything. You'll have to relearn the names you once knew, and after all that the newer generations will still have to know the old names (if the change is too much to recognise it by the 'new' name) because existing books and records won't magically correct themselves.

and if they were to change, do you expect the words to be pronounced just as in the original language?

Especially since English's already confusing... I can imagine some people pronouncing nihon like how they pronounce nylon. ninja


Nihon like Nylon is still closer than the word Japan. Plus, there are enough snobs in the world to be like no, it's NEE-PONE, not NAI-PUN. At least hopefully. I see what you mean though, I hadn't thought too much of that.
Our dictionaries could just do this:
Quote:
NIPPON jp
The country in blah blah blah.
Referred to as Japan until 20XX.

Of course then, using the jp. to mean Japanese wouldn't work because we would probably need to change the name of the languages as well.


from what I've read in Paul Varley's Japanese Culture, the word Japan came from the old Chinese (it doesn't mention specifically what kind of Chinese) pronunciation of nihon, "jihpen", which was then transmitted back to Europe in the 13th century by Marco Polo (who recorded what he heard as "cipangu" ). So it's not like the English language just decided to call Japan "Japan" spontaneously.


Yeah, I was aware that it game from another language.. for some reason I thought it was Malay. I think we got our word for China from Malay or something.  
Reply
The Polyglot's and Linguist's Guild

 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum