Welcome to Gaia! ::

4:12 Discipleship Unashamed

Back to Guilds

Don’t let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, conduct, love, faith, and in purity 

Tags: 4:12 Guild, Discipleship, Unashamed, Jesus Christ, Christianity 

Reply 4:12 Discipleship Unashamed
Is Sickness a Result of Punishment? Goto Page: 1 2 [>] [»|]

Quick Reply

Enter both words below, separated by a space:

Can't read the text? Click here

Submit

PSM Guild Mule

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:56 pm


User Image

In Deut. 28: we have the blessings and the curses. The Lord even shows them in Ex 15:26 God will not even allow diseases to come on his people. The curses were based on disobey his word. As long as they obeyed God which was to instruct them in righteousness, he would keep them from sickness and disease. All this was by faith in his provision. It would be very hard to believe that it's okay for his people to have these bad things if they are obedient in righteousness now. Even more so since Jesus has imputed his righteousness to them.

So what do you guys think?
Is sickness and disease a form of punishment?

User Image
PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:48 am


I don't think it's a matter of opinion: a plague of boils for Egypt (Exodus 9:8-9) and at end times the unrepentant break out in painful sores (Revelation 16:2). Aside from causing disease supernaturally, I think his commands are suppose to keep people from getting diseased in the first place. If you don't touch reptiles, you've just reduced the risk of getting salmonella. If you don't have sex with animals or multiple people, you've also reduced the chance of getting a sexually transmitted infection. His commands have a hygienic quality (e.g. removing the mold from the home [Leviticus 13:47-59]) that people seem to gloss over. The only reason he isn't sending plagues right now is because he's allowing people to repent. But once this merciful period is over, he'll continue dealing with people as he always has until he destroys the wicked for good.

Quote:
2 Peter 3:9 (NIV)

9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

promise = to destroy the wicked

edit: In other words, sickness is a result of someone's disobedience / their decision to act in an unhealthy way. Can't all sickness be traced back to Adam and Eve? Had they not gotten themselves kicked out of the garden, mankind would be eating from the tree which kept them immortal and healthy (Genesis 3:22, Ezekiel 47:12, Revelation 22:2).

real eyes realize

Invisible Guildswoman


SinfulGuillotine
Crew

Perfect Trash

PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 6:09 am


In some cases, perhaps. But plenty of good, faithful people get fall ill. We can't really fathom God's will in many cases, and this is sort of one of those "why do bad things happen to good people" questions. Or that's what I see it turning into.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:57 pm


User Image

I think that God can and does make people sick as a form of punishment.
I believe that he can and will bring fourth plagues if need be.
However i also know that nature will take it's course on people, so try to not get the two confused.

But keep in mind that sickness isn't a Godly thing.

User Image

PSM Guild Mule


Qyp

Manly Lunatic

PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:18 pm


My Grandmother was a missionary, she would risk life and limb in Muslim countries that KILLED Christians, to get Christians Bibles. She went through South-East Asia and China too.

She didn't die the way you would think, she died of one of the most rarest diseases in the world, a disease where the doctors actually dared to ask for her body for research. She did become old and frail, but, it's just odd that she died that way. When she did so many great things for her Faith.

Also, Jesus for filled the Old Testament, it's done. I would say when Jesus said he took everyone's sins, he meant that now everyone is on equal ground for the negatives and positives of life. So no matter how strong your faith is, you could fall to a powerful disease.
PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:44 pm


I do not believe that God would punish his children with sickness
I have heard of situations where God has called forth punishment of death....and yes those particlar instances are very funny indeed....but as far as sickness...no
Job I think it was, was the pinacle of faith and loyalty to God yet as a test he was plagued with the worst illnesses curses and pain. and he indured it maintaining his faith to God. his pain and suffering only increased until His constant faith was proven to satan and the test ended. then all he lost and more was returned to him. he was blessed beyond anything he could have ever wanted or needed.

I have known far too many people who repent and repent and repent...all in vain because they believe that they are being punished. Satan knows this belief and will use to to taint our faith if he can. do not believe that you are being punished by God just because you are getting sick.
remember the word of God...if you pray for salvation he will NOT forsake you
"if your child comes to you and asks for a piece of bread will you give him a snake?"
God does not punish the faithful....he may test the faithful, he may do what is needed weather you see what it is or not. but do not believe that you are being punished by God just because you caught the common cold

kesuke uchiha

Blessed Genius

10,150 Points
  • Generous 100
  • Befriended 100
  • Ultimate Player 200

MiracleRayray2

Blessed Warrior

7,825 Points
  • Member 100
  • Statustician 100
  • Gaian 50
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:13 pm


hi all, I was reading some of the post s and here is just what i think. I love Jesus. I am not afraid to say that. I am 17 years old and All my life I have lived with 5 different heart diseases. I did nothing wrong that made God punish me and give me the heart diseases. My parents did nothing wrong nor did my grandparents and so on. i got it because God made it a part of who I am. He loves me for me. I know that when I get to heaven there there will be no diseases of any types. so when god calls me home, my heart will be Healed and I will no longer have the 5 heart diseases that I have here on earth. I thank God that I am alive and praising him with my arms up in the air!
PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:52 pm


There was a lady that had cancer at my church. A guy told her that she would be healed if she just had faith. She died because he kept telling her that she would have a miracle and didn't need treatment. Six months later that same man was diagnosed with cancer. So yeah it happens but not every disease is punishment.

emorhconom esor

Hilarious Lunatic


real eyes realize

Invisible Guildswoman

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:38 am


MiracleRayray2
hi all, I was reading some of the post s and here is just what i think. I love Jesus. I am not afraid to say that. I am 17 years old and All my life I have lived with 5 different heart diseases. I did nothing wrong that made God punish me and give me the heart diseases. My parents did nothing wrong nor did my grandparents and so on. i got it because God made it a part of who I am. He loves me for me. I know that when I get to heaven there there will be no diseases of any types. so when god calls me home, my heart will be Healed and I will no longer have the 5 heart diseases that I have here on earth. I thank God that I am alive and praising him with my arms up in the air!


Actually, yes, they did—depending on how far back you want to go. Adam and Eve sinned; their wrongdoing got them kicked out of the garden. Hence, the human race is no longer immortal, it's been decaying ever since (limited life spans, shorter and shorter life spans overtime, genetic pool being defiled more and more, all ending in physical death). We are feeling the physical consequences of our ancestors' actions.

Quote:
Romans 8:19-24 (NIV)

19 For the creation waits in eager expectation for the children of God to be revealed. 20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21 that[a] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.

22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23 Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption to sonship, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have?


Like I mentioned before, aside from the supernatural occurrences where YHWH unleashes or allows wrath on somebody (for either miraculous, testing, or destructive purposes), this is the reason for disease in humans: we're out of our natural habitat and under decay thanks to Adam and Eve.

side note: with respect to lifespans, we went from several hundred years (Genesis 5), to 120 years (Genesis 6:3) as set by YHWH, to 70-80 years (Psalm 90:10) Moses' observation; technically the limit is still 120-ish, but hardly anyone reaches that anymore ("hardly anyone" relative to the billions of people that exist and I mean that numerically not genetically).
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:11 am


real eyes realize
Actually, yes, they did—depending on how far back you want to go. Adam and Eve sinned; their wrongdoing got them kicked out of the garden. Hence, the human race is no longer immortal, it's been decaying ever since (limited life spans, shorter and shorter life spans overtime, genetic pool being defiled more and more, all ending in physical death). We are feeling the physical consequences of our ancestors' actions.
Actually, lifespans have been getting a good deal longer. Back in the Middle Ages, you were lucky to make it to 30 or 40, especially if you were lower class. With the gradual advancements in medical and nutritional knowledge that we've gained over the years, the life expectancy, at least in developed countries, has nearly tripled in the past 700 years or so.

Regarding the OP: This all really comes back to the age-old question of why bad things can happen to good people. I don't think illness is usually a punishment. Everything happens for a reason, but for better or worse, we can't always know what that reason is.

SinfulGuillotine
Crew

Perfect Trash


real eyes realize

Invisible Guildswoman

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:24 am


SinfulGuillotine
real eyes realize
Actually, yes, they did—depending on how far back you want to go. Adam and Eve sinned; their wrongdoing got them kicked out of the garden. Hence, the human race is no longer immortal, it's been decaying ever since (limited life spans, shorter and shorter life spans overtime, genetic pool being defiled more and more, all ending in physical death). We are feeling the physical consequences of our ancestors' actions.
Actually, lifespans have been getting a good deal longer. Back in the Middle Ages, you were lucky to make it to 30 or 40, especially if you were lower class. With the gradual advancements in medical and nutritional knowledge that we've gained over the years, the life expectancy, at least in developed countries, has nearly tripled in the past 700 years or so.

Regarding the OP: This all really comes back to the age-old question of why bad things can happen to good people. I don't think illness is usually a punishment. Everything happens for a reason, but for better or worse, we can't always know what that reason is.


The Middle Ages refers to Europeans: their culture is/was a far cry from how scripture says to live; they lived in unsanitary conditions, so no wonder they didn't live past 30-40.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:57 am


real eyes realize
SinfulGuillotine
real eyes realize
Actually, yes, they did—depending on how far back you want to go. Adam and Eve sinned; their wrongdoing got them kicked out of the garden. Hence, the human race is no longer immortal, it's been decaying ever since (limited life spans, shorter and shorter life spans overtime, genetic pool being defiled more and more, all ending in physical death). We are feeling the physical consequences of our ancestors' actions.
Actually, lifespans have been getting a good deal longer. Back in the Middle Ages, you were lucky to make it to 30 or 40, especially if you were lower class. With the gradual advancements in medical and nutritional knowledge that we've gained over the years, the life expectancy, at least in developed countries, has nearly tripled in the past 700 years or so.

Regarding the OP: This all really comes back to the age-old question of why bad things can happen to good people. I don't think illness is usually a punishment. Everything happens for a reason, but for better or worse, we can't always know what that reason is.


The Middle Ages refers to Europeans: their culture is/was a far cry from how scripture says to live; they lived in unsanitary conditions, so no wonder they didn't live past 30-40.
I'm not arguing with that, I'm just saying that life expectancy has risen significantly in the past few hundred years.

SinfulGuillotine
Crew

Perfect Trash


Ophelias Bathwater
Crew

High-functioning Werewolf

13,725 Points
  • Trick or Treat 100
  • Unfortunate Abductee 175
  • Team Jacob 100
PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:53 pm


SinfulGuillotine
real eyes realize
SinfulGuillotine
real eyes realize
Actually, yes, they did—depending on how far back you want to go. Adam and Eve sinned; their wrongdoing got them kicked out of the garden. Hence, the human race is no longer immortal, it's been decaying ever since (limited life spans, shorter and shorter life spans overtime, genetic pool being defiled more and more, all ending in physical death). We are feeling the physical consequences of our ancestors' actions.
Actually, lifespans have been getting a good deal longer. Back in the Middle Ages, you were lucky to make it to 30 or 40, especially if you were lower class. With the gradual advancements in medical and nutritional knowledge that we've gained over the years, the life expectancy, at least in developed countries, has nearly tripled in the past 700 years or so.

Regarding the OP: This all really comes back to the age-old question of why bad things can happen to good people. I don't think illness is usually a punishment. Everything happens for a reason, but for better or worse, we can't always know what that reason is.


The Middle Ages refers to Europeans: their culture is/was a far cry from how scripture says to live; they lived in unsanitary conditions, so no wonder they didn't live past 30-40.
I'm not arguing with that, I'm just saying that life expectancy has risen significantly in the past few hundred years.

I'll argue it. Medieval refers to a global time period (by which I mean countries which were actively engaged in trade and commerce), not just Europe. Life spans in Asiatic regions were very similar to those in the Western world, with the average peasant living to be 25-35 years of age. ln later medieval times, Asiatic people started having longer life spans due to scientific advancements in medicine and hygiene that had not yet reached Europe. By then, the average life span in Middle Eastern regions had reached as high as 65-70.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:51 am


Ophelias Bathwater
I'll argue it. Medieval refers to a global time period (by which I mean countries which were actively engaged in trade and commerce), not just Europe. Life spans in Asiatic regions were very similar to those in the Western world, with the average peasant living to be 25-35 years of age. ln later medieval times, Asiatic people started having longer life spans due to scientific advancements in medicine and hygiene that had not yet reached Europe. By then, the average life span in Middle Eastern regions had reached as high as 65-70.


And that changes nothing, for several reasons:

(1) Scripture itself doesn't hide that the Israelites disobeyed (more often than not): they lived like the world, so they suffered like the world.

(2) I compared the Middle Ages to scripture, not Middle Eastern people/culture. Still, the phrase "Middle Ages" does refer to European history (Israel does not use that phrase to refer to its own history). Whatever term you want to use, that doesn't change the fact that Europeans weren't scriptural. Simply having God's word doesn't mean you're obeying his word and thus benefitting from it (their Hygiene was horrible compared to Moses' time which is whom I'm making comparisons to, a generation that did obey at least more than the generation you're referring to; that's like 3,000 years apart).

(3) When people aren't living according to scripture, of course they won't reach their full lifespan of 120. But you won't find anyone living up to 900 anymore. Hence the side note at the end of my post citing the instances where age is mentioned.

- Before the fall: immortal
- After the fall: death entered the species, lifespan is limited, though humans live for several hundred years (900+)
- After fallen angels mixed with humans: YHWH deliberately sets a limit of 120 years on humans; you won't find anyone living to 900 anymore after the surviving pre-flood generation dies out.
- Moses is quoted as saying men only live 70 years, 80 if they're lucky. However YHWH did not change the 120 limit because Moses himself lived to see 120; thus, YHWH didn't limit it to 40; so bringing up the middle ages is irrelevant because I wasn't insinuating that. The more society lives according to his hygenic rules (known or unbeknownst to them), the more likely they are to reach 120.

(4) Instead of obeying his rules, humans do try to find their own solutions to health. Moses is still climbing mountains at 120, his eyesight hasn't fogged or anything (Deuteronomy 34:7). You can't say that of pretty much anyone today. They weren't using medicines and technology. We, on otherhand, seem to be dependent on technology to deal with (or shall I say "hide") our decay.

Creation is decaying. That's something not even science argues with: it's called entropy. Yet scripture talks about the concept of entropy before science ever discovered that.

edited

real eyes realize

Invisible Guildswoman

Reply
4:12 Discipleship Unashamed

Goto Page: 1 2 [>] [»|]
 
Manage Your Items
Other Stuff
Get GCash
Offers
Get Items
More Items
Where Everyone Hangs Out
Other Community Areas
Virtual Spaces
Fun Stuff
Gaia's Games
Mini-Games
Play with GCash
Play with Platinum