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 Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:36 am
During Thursday, October 12, 2012 Vice Presidential Debate, a question was asked about how the religious beliefs would play into how the two candidates determine their politics. Biden said that he separates the two. Ryan said it's impossible to separate the two.
So, the discussion is: Should the two be separated? Why or why not.
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Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 11:51 am
I personally feel, it is possible, for the non - extremists... and it should be, as not everyone believes the way you do.
Though, I question, how many of our current leaders actually follow a religious teachings, instead of interest parties, personal gain, and money?
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Lord Alucard Ere Casanova
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Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 1:36 pm
In a country that allows "Freedom of Religion" I believe the two, as a matter of courtesy, could be separated. However; most religions dictate that their faith must come first in all things. If someone is willing to separate the two on a whim and without request, I'd have to question the true extent of that person's faith.
As Southern Cross Nemesis pointed out another thing to question is their true mindset. Religious or greed. Their actions support a mindset of greed, not faith.
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Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:38 pm
In a secular government ideal, where a religion is not endorsed by the state, yes the two can be completely separate. Granted where the problems lie is that religion tends to have life philosophies associated with them and this effects one's outlook and how they interact with others. Example One who is readily accepts Christian charity will tend to be more supportive of government social programs. A person's outlook on human nature could indirectly affected by religion as well. Some sects of Christianity believe that everyone is "fallen and incapable of doing good" in nature, and due to this "fallen and incapable of doing good" nature a greater need for governments to keep an eye on it's citizens and is less trustful of the motives of it's citizens. This is similar to how different philosophies of Confusionism concerning human nature affected what policies in medieval China won out.
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:45 pm
I wouldn't separate my beliefs from my position. I would use them to rule with an iron fist and so help you if you ******** crossed me.
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:53 pm
deadmanjay I wouldn't separate my beliefs from my position. I would use them to rule with an iron fist and so help you if you ******** crossed me. DMJ for President! Wait, didn't I say that for Rob?... We can do a cooperation for president, right? I mean, Hillary and Obama wanted to do that last time.
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:16 pm
Southern Cross Nemesis deadmanjay I wouldn't separate my beliefs from my position. I would use them to rule with an iron fist and so help you if you ******** crossed me. DMJ for President! Wait, didn't I say that for Rob?... We can do a cooperation for president, right? I mean, Hillary and Obama wanted to do that last time. Me? Cooperate? Hmmm...I suppose he could be my Secretary of telling the Media to shut the ******** up.
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Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 7:53 pm
It seems that you HAVE TO have a religion in order to be President or VP... from what I see All of them have religions. I looked through to make sure, and there is no Atheist President.
Does the American Anthem still have "May God Bless America" at the end or what ever it is? If so, then that means politics and religions HAVE to be together... in order for the system to work.
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:41 am
Qyp It seems that you HAVE TO have a religion in order to be President or VP... from what I see All of them have religions. I looked through to make sure, and there is no Atheist President. No religion is not an official requirement to become president of the US, we aren't that backward. But many Americans feel that their leader should be able to relate to them. Thomas Jefferson, the third president of the US was a deist, and vehemently opposed to religion. Actually most of the founding Fathers wanted to keep religion out of the US political sphere. Quote: Does the American Anthem still have "May God Bless America" at the end or what ever it is? If so, then that means politics and religions HAVE to be together... in order for the system to work. The official anthem is "Star Spangled Banner" which does have a generic reference to God in last verses. "God Bless America" is not our official anthem though I am seeing that is growing in popularity. I've never heard "God Bless America".
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 12:47 am
rmcdra Qyp It seems that you HAVE TO have a religion in order to be President or VP... from what I see All of them have religions. I looked through to make sure, and there is no Atheist President. No religion is not an official requirement to become president of the US, we aren't that backward. But many Americans feel that their leader should be able to relate to them. Thomas Jefferson, the third president of the US was a deist, and vehemently opposed to religion. Actually most of the founding Fathers wanted to keep religion out of the US political sphere. Quote: Does the American Anthem still have "May God Bless America" at the end or what ever it is? If so, then that means politics and religions HAVE to be together... in order for the system to work. The official anthem is "Star Spangled Banner" which does have a generic reference to God in last verses. "God Bless America" is not our official anthem though I am seeing that is growing in popularity. I've never heard "God Bless America". Ah right, heh. And I know that George Washington had read the Quran, and liked it too... And Deism... seems interesting.
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Lord Alucard Ere Casanova
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:18 am
My Pop explained to me that "God," being so vague, actually refers to whatever deity people worship. At the time it was added "atheism" was a minor idea that was, I imagine, often laughed at. During that time the closest thing to atheism might have been the belief that there is some unknown mysterious power, and that is all the claim covers.
So "God" in the star spangled banner, pledge of allegiance, and on our coins, refers to any deity the people worship. Christian God, Muslim God, Jewish God, Invisible Pink Unicorn, etc. My Pop goes on to say that everyone does have some object of worship even if they don't realize it. For an atheist businessman who spends all his life dedicated to accumulating more and more wealth beyond what he really needs, money is his god.
My Pop claims to have the right to point out this fact/perspective because he wrote an anonymous letter to Congress suggesting that God be added to the pledge of allegiance for that reason. He explained his belief to Congress and insisted it would be fitting. Whether or not he really did that, or at least whether or not Congress took his letter as the main reason, will remain unknown until my Pop passes away. Only he can request that Congress remove the anonymity until he has passed on, at which point a blood relative can request it be removed.
Other than that info, our founding fathers only believed that there is a God. Not much detail except our rights and freedoms that God gave us upon creation. They didn't believe in the Christian bible or Christianity, people just assume they did because their God and the Christian God are both called God.
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:00 am
Lord Kilo Von Mortenson My Pop explained to me that "God," being so vague, actually refers to whatever deity people worship. At the time it was added "atheism" was a minor idea that was, I imagine, often laughed at. During that time the closest thing to atheism might have been the belief that there is some unknown mysterious power, and that is all the claim covers. So "God" in the star spangled banner, pledge of allegiance, and on our coins, refers to any deity the people worship. Christian God, Muslim God, Jewish God, Invisible Pink Unicorn, etc. My Pop goes on to say that everyone does have some object of worship even if they don't realize it. For an atheist businessman who spends all his life dedicated to accumulating more and more wealth beyond what he really needs, money is his god. My Pop claims to have the right to point out this fact/perspective because he wrote an anonymous letter to Congress suggesting that God be added to the pledge of allegiance for that reason. He explained his belief to Congress and insisted it would be fitting. Whether or not he really did that, or at least whether or not Congress took his letter as the main reason, will remain unknown until my Pop passes away. Only he can request that Congress remove the anonymity until he has passed on, at which point a blood relative can request it be removed. Other than that info, our founding fathers only believed that there is a God. Not much detail except our rights and freedoms that God gave us upon creation. They didn't believe in the Christian bible or Christianity, people just assume they did because their God and the Christian God are both called God. Your Pop is simplistically wise... and I do not mean that in a bad way, I mean, he has common sense to the point where it should smack anyone with any reasonable IQ right in the face. Money is a god, I have always thought that, hence why I have never seen atheists as a real thing... Also, isn't naming a group of a people who believe there is no God as of any recognized religion, actually a religion in itself?
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:02 am
Lord Kilo Von Mortenson So "God" in the star spangled banner, pledge of allegiance, and on our coins, refers to any deity the people worship. Christian God, Muslim God, Jewish God, Invisible Pink Unicorn, etc. My Pop goes on to say that everyone does have some object of worship even if they don't realize it. For an atheist businessman who spends all his life dedicated to accumulating more and more wealth beyond what he really needs, money is his god. The God part in the paper money and the pledge came about in the 1950's and is linked to the Red Scare at the time. Also the huge condemnation of atheists, which people some how had the idea that only Russians were atheists. There may have been some good motivation behind some of the people wanting it, so I won't say everyone hated the Commies. It was added to coinage in 1864. Partly to unify the North and South by saying everyone is under God.
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:07 am
Qyp Also, isn't naming a group of a people who believe there is no God as of any recognized religion, actually a religion in itself? No. Not all atheists are irreligious and not all theists are religious. Religion refers to a set of beliefs. Atheism/theism could just be one be one belief or disbelief of a religion. LaVayan Satanism is an atheistic religion. Although LaVay was a d**k and just wanted to piss off Christians, there is no worship of a deity. Some try to say they worship themselves as God, but that's not entirely true. Satanists, the ones who follow the principles actually just do what is best for them, whether it be avoiding someone or donating to charity.
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Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:17 am
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