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 Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:17 pm
I have been letting my son go to church with some of his buddies from school on Wednesdays. He really enjoys the extra time he gets with his friends, and he has always been a bit spiritually minded.
Before he leaves for church yesterday, he tells me he thinks he wants to be saved... Most Christian parents are ecstatic when there child announces this, but I didn't feel excited... Call it a pricking of the Holy Spirit if you will...
I don't think people should just be all excited without questioning motives, and I feel doubly suspicious when my son, who has believed in Jesus since he was little suddenly feels he needs to make a special point to make a show of it...
I asked him why, and it boils down to Heaven and Hell... I thought I had talked to him about fear and motive, but he has been collecting Chick tracts, and listening extra hard to the stories of Hell fire and Brimstone...
I am debating not allowing him to go as often. I won't have him waking up at night scared that he was 'left behind' or that everyone he knows is going to Hell because they are living in sin...
I suppose he is old enough to have some real study in the Word. I want him to learn how to listen to the Spirit, not to religious propaganda... Why do kids have to grow so fast?
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Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:30 pm
So, is that all they talk about at church when the kids are there? I mean going to hell and having to be saved. If so, then your choice of not letting him go as often is very understandable. The Chick Tracts alone always give me pause when children have them and have a more than mild fear of Hell.
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:16 am
not letting him go to church for a couple weeks sounds like it may be a good idea, just so he can get some more one on one time with his piritual side instead of all the fear mongering religious media throws at people
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:37 am
I went to a "Church of the Flaming Sword" once. And yeah, all fire and brimstone, heaven and hell... and well... it didn't seem very healthy to be honest. It galvanized the members into faith by fear. And I got the impression the message of love was getting lost in the mix. So I can definitely understand such areas of concern.
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:04 am
Have some one on one time with him and personally involve yourself in his religious education. Also encourage him to keep reason in the forefront. Reason is how you keep from falling prey to spiritual madness
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:54 pm
I try to have a bit of time everyday where I can plant good seeds in his fertile mind, but of course, I try and let him use the wisdom God gave him to lead his questions...
Since he was little, around 4 actually, he used to talk of what he believed was right and wrong, and each question he asked always lead to an answer that seemed deeper than he should have been capable of... I actually had to question some of my long held beliefs because of simple yet deep wisdoms he came to me with...
So, I have always tried to let the Spirit direct him as It would, but it seems that It has been partially drown in the cacophony of the institution...
I have decided that I am going to teach him how to determine the moderate way of thinking. I started yesterday by telling him that if anything said in church made him feel scared, then he needed to listen to what was said, but not believe what was said, until he could find out why it made him feel scared... Because God does not give a spirit of fear, and so the reason probably that it makes him scared is that it is probably not completely right to believe....
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Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:43 pm
Up until a few weeks ago, one of my nieces was going to a Christian church with her best friend. She liked the feeling of comraderie and enjoyed going. Until she noticed the topics of Hell, homosexuality, and Adam and Eve kept coming up. At this church, they taught that homosexuality is a choice and a major sin and that Hell is where everyone who is not a Christian goes. They also taught that Adam and Eve were the first and that there were no others until, I guess, the story of Noah or some such thing. No mention of the Land of Nod. So, she completely disagreed with the homosexuality thing and knowing me and my families religion, could not get her head around Hell. The Adam thing just didnt make any literal sense to her. But at this church, she was not allowed to contradict anyone, especially the Reverend. So she has stopped going and her supposed best friend doesnt talk to her as much.
So, my point is is maybe this church is doing too much indoctrination techniques without any actual or factual education. If they are making him afraid for his soul, I would be wondering what they were telling him. Has he asked you if you thought you were going to Hell? I've been asked that before by kids who are in churches that preach about Hell more than Heaven.
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:26 am
This church isn't as condemning as most around here, I know that... I drilled the people who take the kids... I have drilled my son and his friends... and I have asked to see some of their Sunday school material...
I have always told Phoenix that not everyone believes the same. I have also warned him that many churches believe that their ideas on how the Bible should be read are the only way, and that those people believe the devil are twisting everyone who doesn't agree with them.... I have also always stressed that this is hogwash...
I did this before he started going...
I have always sat down and discussed what he learned, and I have always tried to do damage control... And it seems that it has done good.
He told me when we revisited the subject, after I posted, that he understands that the people in church really believe that people will go to Hell if they don't believe in the Bible...
I corrected him and told Him that belief in God and The Way is what is required...
That brightened him up.... And it kinda enlightened me a little as to what was going on...
I have been doing a daily sit down with him now though. I still let him go, at the moment, just so he has subject matter to bring home for discussion. I figure it's good to teach him skepticism now, so he has a chance to not get sucked in to one of the more zealous ways of thinking later... Hopefully...
I am not going to be able to protect him from everything, so I figure it is better to teach him how to protect himself now.
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:52 am
Hmmm... do you know the pastor of this church? I honestly despise pastors who use scare tactics by preaching a lot about hell and all that. It's too old school.
Your son needs to know that baptism doesn't have to be through water, I believe that is just symbolic, and not really necessary. If your son believes Jesus Christ is his Lord and Savior, and all that stuff in the bible that we can go read ourselves, then he is fine. The baptism is about letting the Holy Spirit into your heart, and that happens when you accept Christ. So...
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 3:57 am
jaden kendam Up until a few weeks ago, one of my nieces was going to a Christian church with her best friend. She liked the feeling of comraderie and enjoyed going. Until she noticed the topics of Hell, homosexuality, and Adam and Eve kept coming up. At this church, they taught that homosexuality is a choice and a major sin and that Hell is where everyone who is not a Christian goes. They also taught that Adam and Eve were the first and that there were no others until, I guess, the story of Noah or some such thing. No mention of the Land of Nod. So, she completely disagreed with the homosexuality thing and knowing me and my families religion, could not get her head around Hell. The Adam thing just didnt make any literal sense to her. But at this church, she was not allowed to contradict anyone, especially the Reverend. So she has stopped going and her supposed best friend doesnt talk to her as much. So, my point is is maybe this church is doing too much indoctrination techniques without any actual or factual education. If they are making him afraid for his soul, I would be wondering what they were telling him. Has he asked you if you thought you were going to Hell? I've been asked that before by kids who are in churches that preach about Hell more than Heaven. Whats your family's religion?
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 5:23 am
Qyp Whats your family's religion? I am Non-denominational Christian... I consider myself progressive... My husband considers himself pagan. He used to be more nature minded, shamanic, but he doesn't practice anything anymore. He is seeking now. ...And I know that what the church teaches is not meaningfully malicious. It is a Baptist church, and I know the people there really do love people and want to help... They know what they know though, and IMHO it is a bit flawed, but their heart is in the right place. If they were more about spreading a doctrine, then I would not allow my son there... The problem is tradition though... And every time I hear the phrase, "...believe in the Bible...", it drives the point home... It is really hard to find churches around here that have a pastor who has had any real Seminary education... The pastors around here preach what their daddies preached, and don't question tradition... This is the biggest problem I have right now with churches... Everyone would back up the doctrines of Tertullian, Origen, Athanasius, an so many others... Yet they have no knowledge of the political mechanisms that put these doctrines in place as the mainstream... Most people are not even aware of the men who laid out their doctrines; they are never aware that there were other doctrines that were just as valid interpretations believed by men who were not political theologians... It is even sadder to me that the pastors around here don't have a clue that there were specific men in the first few hundred years who set the bar of what they would preach hundreds of years later... The amount of ignorance in Church leadership actually angers me... A very sore topic for me... ...But it can't be avoided, so I just have to do the best I can to teach my son how to study, and listen to the Spirit, keep an open mind, and daily reaffirm his faith by acknowledging he can't know everything.
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:05 am
Eltanin Sadachbia Qyp Whats your family's religion? I am Non-denominational Christian... I consider myself progressive... My husband considers himself pagan. He used to be more nature minded, shamanic, but he doesn't practice anything anymore. He is seeking now. ...And I know that what the church teaches is not meaningfully malicious. It is a Baptist church, and I know the people there really do love people and want to help... They know what they know though, and IMHO it is a bit flawed, but their heart is in the right place. If they were more about spreading a doctrine, then I would not allow my son there... The problem is tradition though... And every time I hear the phrase, "...believe in the Bible...", it drives the point home... It is really hard to find churches around here that have a pastor who has had any real Seminary education... The pastors around here preach what their daddies preached, and don't question tradition... This is the biggest problem I have right now with churches... Everyone would back up the doctrines of Tertullian, Origen, Athanasius, an so many others... Yet they have no knowledge of the political mechanisms that put these doctrines in place as the mainstream... Most people are not even aware of the men who laid out their doctrines; they are never aware that there were other doctrines that were just as valid interpretations believed by men who were not political theologians... It is even sadder to me that the pastors around here don't have a clue that there were specific men in the first few hundred years who set the bar of what they would preach hundreds of years later... The amount of ignorance in Church leadership actually angers me... A very sore topic for me... ...But it can't be avoided, so I just have to do the best I can to teach my son how to study, and listen to the Spirit, keep an open mind, and daily reaffirm his faith by acknowledging he can't know everything. I think Christians who are so into the bible, like "THIS IS GOD" are actually insulting who God is. It's just some life lessons and laws, it's not God. Yeah, I probably just simplified one of the greatest books in history and underrated it, but that is basically what it is.
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:16 am
Eltanin Sadachbia Qyp Whats your family's religion? I am Non-denominational Christian... I consider myself progressive... My husband considers himself pagan. He used to be more nature minded, shamanic, but he doesn't practice anything anymore. He is seeking now. ...And I know that what the church teaches is not meaningfully malicious. It is a Baptist church, and I know the people there really do love people and want to help... They know what they know though, and IMHO it is a bit flawed, but their heart is in the right place. If they were more about spreading a doctrine, then I would not allow my son there... The problem is tradition though... And every time I hear the phrase, "...believe in the Bible...", it drives the point home... It is really hard to find churches around here that have a pastor who has had any real Seminary education... The pastors around here preach what their daddies preached, and don't question tradition... This is the biggest problem I have right now with churches... Everyone would back up the doctrines of Tertullian, Origen, Athanasius, an so many others... Yet they have no knowledge of the political mechanisms that put these doctrines in place as the mainstream... Most people are not even aware of the men who laid out their doctrines; they are never aware that there were other doctrines that were just as valid interpretations believed by men who were not political theologians... It is even sadder to me that the pastors around here don't have a clue that there were specific men in the first few hundred years who set the bar of what they would preach hundreds of years later... The amount of ignorance in Church leadership actually angers me... A very sore topic for me... ...But it can't be avoided, so I just have to do the best I can to teach my son how to study, and listen to the Spirit, keep an open mind, and daily reaffirm his faith by acknowledging he can't know everything. Concerning the teaching of tradition, unfortunately that's the case for a lot of pastors and in some situations, if a pastor doesn't preach traditions and the values that the congregation hold, they can be out of a job. Not that it's any justification mind you, it's just one of the unfortunate pit falls of becoming a pastor. It's even harder for pastors to quit when they don't believe what they are preaching any more.
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Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 6:32 am
rmcdra Eltanin Sadachbia Qyp Whats your family's religion? I am Non-denominational Christian... I consider myself progressive... My husband considers himself pagan. He used to be more nature minded, shamanic, but he doesn't practice anything anymore. He is seeking now. ...And I know that what the church teaches is not meaningfully malicious. It is a Baptist church, and I know the people there really do love people and want to help... They know what they know though, and IMHO it is a bit flawed, but their heart is in the right place. If they were more about spreading a doctrine, then I would not allow my son there... The problem is tradition though... And every time I hear the phrase, "...believe in the Bible...", it drives the point home... It is really hard to find churches around here that have a pastor who has had any real Seminary education... The pastors around here preach what their daddies preached, and don't question tradition... This is the biggest problem I have right now with churches... Everyone would back up the doctrines of Tertullian, Origen, Athanasius, an so many others... Yet they have no knowledge of the political mechanisms that put these doctrines in place as the mainstream... Most people are not even aware of the men who laid out their doctrines; they are never aware that there were other doctrines that were just as valid interpretations believed by men who were not political theologians... It is even sadder to me that the pastors around here don't have a clue that there were specific men in the first few hundred years who set the bar of what they would preach hundreds of years later... The amount of ignorance in Church leadership actually angers me... A very sore topic for me... ...But it can't be avoided, so I just have to do the best I can to teach my son how to study, and listen to the Spirit, keep an open mind, and daily reaffirm his faith by acknowledging he can't know everything. Concerning the teaching of tradition, unfortunately that's the case for a lot of pastors and in some situations, if a pastor doesn't preach traditions and the values that the congregation hold, they can be out of a job. Not that it's any justification mind you, it's just one of the unfortunate pit falls of becoming a pastor. It's even harder for pastors to quit when they don't believe what they are preaching any more. One tradition that might keep all other tradition around, is church elders. I know my church (Which has been moved around a lot actually, we grow, need bigger building, then we joined with another church, then we split from them...) was pretty "modern" in the spectrum of having an instrumental band, epic sound desk set up, projectors, etc. A more simple form of that Hillsong church I suppose. Anyways, we don't have a chore or any of that crazy stuff from an Anglican church (My grandmother was Anglican for a long time, then moved on to Baptist). But I would still say we are in the "dark ages" in the spectrum of frowning upon homosexuality and stuff like that "most" Christians would be expected to do. But yeah, church elders, making sure things are done "properly".
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Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 4:46 pm
Qyp jaden kendam Up until a few weeks ago, one of my nieces was going to a Christian church with her best friend. She liked the feeling of comraderie and enjoyed going. Until she noticed the topics of Hell, homosexuality, and Adam and Eve kept coming up. At this church, they taught that homosexuality is a choice and a major sin and that Hell is where everyone who is not a Christian goes. They also taught that Adam and Eve were the first and that there were no others until, I guess, the story of Noah or some such thing. No mention of the Land of Nod. So, she completely disagreed with the homosexuality thing and knowing me and my families religion, could not get her head around Hell. The Adam thing just didnt make any literal sense to her. But at this church, she was not allowed to contradict anyone, especially the Reverend. So she has stopped going and her supposed best friend doesnt talk to her as much. So, my point is is maybe this church is doing too much indoctrination techniques without any actual or factual education. If they are making him afraid for his soul, I would be wondering what they were telling him. Has he asked you if you thought you were going to Hell? I've been asked that before by kids who are in churches that preach about Hell more than Heaven. Whats your family's religion? Sorry for the late reply, I wasn't ignoring the question. I was more so ignoring Gaia. Too many liars about their lives and them selves in the forums I post in. Anyways, I am a Spiritualist. If you want more, I can pm you a link of the actual religion and not just some stupid wikipedia article.
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