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 Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:16 pm
Ok, we can all pretty much agree that we love The Phantom/Erik/Angel of Music~and that Christine proved herself to be superfious and shallow.
However...
Was Erik truley thinking of Christine's best interests when he threatened to lock her away in his mysterious batcave never to see the light of day again? Or when he threatened to blow up all who were near and dear to her? When you care for someone, you don't use scare tactics to keep them with you. Yes, we can argue that he was driven mad with love. But that sounds vaguely like an excuse. Even when she begins to bash her head agains his stone walls, he simply restrains her.
It's as though he treated her like a possesion-something to be attained and kept.
What do you all think?
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Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:22 pm
I just posted this in another thread XD...
Personally I believe Erik to be an intellectual genius... but he is emotionally retarded. He has the social skills of a kindergartener. There is good reason for his lack of social abilities as we all know. But Erik does not know right from wrong, or good from bad. I also do not think Erik really knows what love is. Erik was obsessed with Christine! But I don't think he loved her...
And Christine was FAR from shallow. She never "fell in love with the Angel of Music" she thought of him as the spirit of her father... her father who she loved so much. And she was crushed by his deception but pitied his horrible fate!
May I remind you she BEGGED Raoul to let her sing one last time for Erik... FOR ERIK. She felt bad for abandoning a man who no one cared for... she did pity him... she was far from shallow.
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Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 3:49 pm
Oh trust me-I do agree. When I said that Christine was shallow and superficial I was more or less being sarcastic. I should have used "quotations" to express that tone. But I emphasize the "more or less". If Erik was a normal looking guy, there would have been no problem.
Also, it's debateable whether or not the Angel of Music was the soul of her father, or a spiritual being that was sent by him. In the movie, it seemed to take a spin in the graveyard scene that would suggest that the Angel was indeed her departed daddy(or so she thought for a second). But I don't think that is what was intended in the book version. I don't think Christine ever confused the Phantom for her father.
Indeed, Christine had alot to think about where that whole situation was concerned.
So yes, I do think that she had many redeemable qualities-it's just a pity on Erik's part that he wasn't prettier.
But then again, if we were in Christine's shoes-pretty much homeless, orphaned, alone, just a bit dead inside, and stalked-well...I'm not sure how anyone would have been able to handle it.
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Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2006 4:01 pm
I don't think she pitied his face... she pitied how the world treated him because of it... she knew he was a genius and I think she pitied how the world would never know it...
And I don't think there would have been "no problem" if he was normal looking because remember she did most of her freaking out when it dawned on her that he was human and not an angel... remember the line "and he said it with such an accent of human sorrow that I ought then and there to have suspecting and begun to realize I was a victim of my deluded senses." She would have freaked even if he was normal looking. It was his face that made her pity him... Erik didn't interpret it that way because he knew his face to be his only trouble.
And the movie is based more on Andrew Lloyd Webber's play which.. makes me kinda twitch... they flippedfloped a few scenes and left one out... the whole scene where Christine was begging Raoul not to make her scene was before that and you could tell she was going mad... which Carlotta pointed out to everyone.. so she was in a very emotionally weak state of mind. But ALW gave her daddy issues o_O;;;
Also keep in mind that his musical was written for his wife. So obviously he put himself somewhere in it and I'll give you one hint... it certainly wasn't Raoul.
That's why I like the book more... Leroux put himself in as Daroga, I feel... .and I feel like with my screenplay that I'm writing based on the book I'm putting myself in as Raoul most likely.... just...every writer has to put a little bit of themselves into their work.
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:04 pm
I'm going to agree with Baka here. Erik in whole was really selfish, like a child. And, in fact, his personality throughout shows his childishness. If he does not get his way, he will cause horrid things to happen. Like if a child never gets the candy or toy they want, they'll break something in a flying rage.
I'm not surprised Christine chose Raoul. For one, he was far more mature socially and altogether. That and Erik was ugly. Back then, those who were deformed were thought of being touched by the devil and therefore cursed.
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:58 pm
Utakan I'm going to agree with Baka here. Erik in whole was really selfish, like a child. And, in fact, his personality throughout shows his childishness. If he does not get his way, he will cause horrid things to happen. Like if a child never gets the candy or toy they want, they'll break something in a flying rage. I'm not surprised Christine chose Raoul. For one, he was far more mature socially and altogether. That and Erik was ugly. Back then, those who were deformed were thought of being touched by the devil and therefore cursed. XD I didn't know that until I read "Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal" and how they all thought lepers were unclean... Also another thing I need to say for Christine, as for her freak out... the initial freak was BEFORE she ever saw Erik's face... when she found out he was human.... kinda like the kid who stays up to wait for Santa and sees their parents putting the gifts under the tree... crushed that someone you trusted so much lied to you consistantly and blatantly... Erik is also very... "MINE!" And not just with Christine... with the Opera house too. My theatre, my box, my boxkeeper, NYAH!!! I think the most childish thing I recall though was the scene Daroga was recalling with him sitting on the edge of the boat swinging his legs back and forth "Chandelier? What Chandelier?"
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 8:57 pm
BakaTulip Utakan I'm going to agree with Baka here. Erik in whole was really selfish, like a child. And, in fact, his personality throughout shows his childishness. If he does not get his way, he will cause horrid things to happen. Like if a child never gets the candy or toy they want, they'll break something in a flying rage. I'm not surprised Christine chose Raoul. For one, he was far more mature socially and altogether. That and Erik was ugly. Back then, those who were deformed were thought of being touched by the devil and therefore cursed. XD I didn't know that until I read "Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal" and how they all thought lepers were unclean... Also another thing I need to say for Christine, as for her freak out... the initial freak was BEFORE she ever saw Erik's face... when she found out he was human.... kinda like the kid who stays up to wait for Santa and sees their parents putting the gifts under the tree... crushed that someone you trusted so much lied to you consistantly and blatantly... Erik is also very... "MINE!" And not just with Christine... with the Opera house too. My theatre, my box, my boxkeeper, NYAH!!! I think the most childish thing I recall though was the scene Daroga was recalling with him sitting on the edge of the boat swinging his legs back and forth "Chandelier? What Chandelier?" Doesn't history research opening your eyes to new things just fun? XD And I'll agree with that. Christine in herself was a child. With her Father dying when she was young, she ceased to change mentally in order to keep the memory of her Father alive. I think Erik realised that and thought he could easily dupe her, no harm done. But to reveal himself was just the wrong thing, though he did this to keep her from going to Raoul for the affections he wanted from her. But that was merely the base of the cake. Add to it his appearance, which adds a layer to this proverbial cake, and then his possessive complex, that tops the cake with icing and sprinkles. His intense emotions frightened her because she now wanted away from him and he was willing to kill to keep her from doing that. And that last statement makes me giggle. The mental image of a chibi Erik sitting and swinging his legs with an innocent look, saying, "What chandelier?" just makes me giggle.
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:13 pm
Utakan BakaTulip Utakan I'm going to agree with Baka here. Erik in whole was really selfish, like a child. And, in fact, his personality throughout shows his childishness. If he does not get his way, he will cause horrid things to happen. Like if a child never gets the candy or toy they want, they'll break something in a flying rage. I'm not surprised Christine chose Raoul. For one, he was far more mature socially and altogether. That and Erik was ugly. Back then, those who were deformed were thought of being touched by the devil and therefore cursed. XD I didn't know that until I read "Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal" and how they all thought lepers were unclean... Also another thing I need to say for Christine, as for her freak out... the initial freak was BEFORE she ever saw Erik's face... when she found out he was human.... kinda like the kid who stays up to wait for Santa and sees their parents putting the gifts under the tree... crushed that someone you trusted so much lied to you consistantly and blatantly... Erik is also very... "MINE!" And not just with Christine... with the Opera house too. My theatre, my box, my boxkeeper, NYAH!!! I think the most childish thing I recall though was the scene Daroga was recalling with him sitting on the edge of the boat swinging his legs back and forth "Chandelier? What Chandelier?" Doesn't history research opening your eyes to new things just fun? XD And I'll agree with that. Christine in herself was a child. With her Father dying when she was young, she ceased to change mentally in order to keep the memory of her Father alive. I think Erik realised that and thought he could easily dupe her, no harm done. But to reveal himself was just the wrong thing, though he did this to keep her from going to Raoul for the affections he wanted from her. But that was merely the base of the cake. Add to it his appearance, which adds a layer to this proverbial cake, and then his possessive complex, that tops the cake with icing and sprinkles. His intense emotions frightened her because she now wanted away from him and he was willing to kill to keep her from doing that. And that last statement makes me giggle. The mental image of a chibi Erik sitting and swinging his legs with an innocent look, saying, "What chandelier?" just makes me giggle. Someone should draw that...
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:06 pm
BakaTulip Utakan BakaTulip Utakan I'm going to agree with Baka here. Erik in whole was really selfish, like a child. And, in fact, his personality throughout shows his childishness. If he does not get his way, he will cause horrid things to happen. Like if a child never gets the candy or toy they want, they'll break something in a flying rage. I'm not surprised Christine chose Raoul. For one, he was far more mature socially and altogether. That and Erik was ugly. Back then, those who were deformed were thought of being touched by the devil and therefore cursed. XD I didn't know that until I read "Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal" and how they all thought lepers were unclean... Also another thing I need to say for Christine, as for her freak out... the initial freak was BEFORE she ever saw Erik's face... when she found out he was human.... kinda like the kid who stays up to wait for Santa and sees their parents putting the gifts under the tree... crushed that someone you trusted so much lied to you consistantly and blatantly... Erik is also very... "MINE!" And not just with Christine... with the Opera house too. My theatre, my box, my boxkeeper, NYAH!!! I think the most childish thing I recall though was the scene Daroga was recalling with him sitting on the edge of the boat swinging his legs back and forth "Chandelier? What Chandelier?" Doesn't history research opening your eyes to new things just fun? XD And I'll agree with that. Christine in herself was a child. With her Father dying when she was young, she ceased to change mentally in order to keep the memory of her Father alive. I think Erik realised that and thought he could easily dupe her, no harm done. But to reveal himself was just the wrong thing, though he did this to keep her from going to Raoul for the affections he wanted from her. But that was merely the base of the cake. Add to it his appearance, which adds a layer to this proverbial cake, and then his possessive complex, that tops the cake with icing and sprinkles. His intense emotions frightened her because she now wanted away from him and he was willing to kill to keep her from doing that. And that last statement makes me giggle. The mental image of a chibi Erik sitting and swinging his legs with an innocent look, saying, "What chandelier?" just makes me giggle. Someone should draw that... SSHHH!! You'll give away my evil plan!
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:21 am
Utakan BakaTulip Someone should draw that... SSHHH!! You'll give away my evil plan! Too late I read it, and now have a chibi Erik in mind which is itching to be sketched out... The only problem is that I don't remeber where in the book that happened, and I want to re-read that part for a better understanding.
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:26 pm
The Rogued girl Utakan BakaTulip Someone should draw that... SSHHH!! You'll give away my evil plan! Too late I read it, and now have a chibi Erik in mind which is itching to be sketched out... The only problem is that I don't remeber where in the book that happened, and I want to re-read that part for a better understanding. It was in "The Persian's Narrative" I forgot which chapter though... I'm pretty sure it was pre-torture chamber.
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Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:30 pm
All I have to say is this...
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Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:56 am
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Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:10 pm
I give hugs upon the second one
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