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 Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 3:10 pm
Now stop me if this thread has already been thoroughly written about.
Occassionally, I must admit, and surely to the dismay of some of my mature Christian friends, I like to scour the web in search of NDE accounts. I was always fascinated by them since I was a kid--right up there with hauntings and encounters with the deceased.
Of course, many of the NDE "researchers" seem to be biased (since they all inevitably have a book they want you to buy), but what concerns me is their language surrounding the NDE's. It would seem that all these men and women have been to heaven and hell, which Biblically speaking is impossible unless I missed that whole Day of Judgment thing. . . . eek *awkward*
Still, I've heard a lot of Christians say those visions are uniformly from the devil. The good, the bad, the freaky are all demonic visions to mislead. Now, I have my own view of the NDE because while I do think these experiences are 100% real and part of the "transition", I don't think they contradict Christianity.
I'll post my view in a seperate post, but I am curious to probe what others think about this. (And, of course, if such a thread already exists (I haven't gone through the infodump) do point me to it. I'd hate to be redundant. smile
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Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:41 am
i believe in them, i dont see any reason not to. if you are dead and its not quite your time yet it makes sense you would see stuff like maybe where you are heading or something
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:03 am
whee too cute of a dog there whee
Ok, now my post I promised from before. The way I view these individuals's claims is that they have all in fact "gone to sleep" and the visions they have are dreams/dreamlike-- and possible harbingers. Biblically, death has been compared to sleep, and I don't doubt that that's how it'll feel when we all go, and so interpreting the visions as parallels to dreams explains why everyone's "heaven" and "hell" look so radically different. Now, granted most of the people I've seen interviewed have largely been from Jewish-Christian-Muslim faiths followed by atheists and agnostics, I've also followed the accounts of people from other Eastern faiths such as Buddhism and Hinduism. Taken as a whole NDE's don't seem to affirm any one religion, or if it does, it affirms the one the individual is most acquainted with.
This leads me to my next issue: the "absolute" truth behind all the NDE's, which is a prime reason Christians might call it demonic. Some people come back and become Christian, or Jewish, or Muslim, or universalist. Largely they all became certain there is some god somewhere, but where "sin" fits in this and subsequent judgment ranges from the strict judgement of the Judean-Christian God to him being laissez-faire.
When confronted with that issue, I thought of the verse in the Bible about how God gave unrepentant sinners over to "powerful delusions". Still, in accepting that explanation, an outsider and even the experiencer himself cannot distinguish the truth from a lie. So, I suppose for now I'm at square one. xp
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:09 pm
Personally, I'm all for people expanding beyond what your peers' religious boundaries. If no one ever summons the courage to explore the new and bizarre things, nothing new would ever happen and we'd still be in the stone age. Saying that something is caused by the Devil is a phrase that I immensely dislike because it's usually used when someone cannot comprehend something or they have made ignorant assumptions without taking the time to educate themselves first. When people don't understand something, they get scared of the unexplainable and thus, it must be evil. This is the exact line of ignorant thinking that has caused hysteria and bloodshed all throughout history.
As far as my view on NDE, I really don't have much of one. I have had close encounters that could have become fatal but never had an experience myself and it's never been a top interest of mine. However, I will say this: while the bible talks of heaven, hell, the devil, and the angels- much of what has become common lore about them has not been stated in the bible. Nor does the bible deny that anything else beyond what is written in its pages could be possible. Even now there are things unspoken of in the bible that we know exists. What human has the right to say "no that's evil" just because they cannot understand one of the many mysteries of the universe?
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:29 pm
I swear I had this conversation some where else.... but my answer is still going to be the same.... I WANT ONE!!! crying
I know of more than 20 people who all had paranormal activity happen; near death experiance, ghost, angel sighting, ufo, demon.... exct... exct... but, always I can never see or even sense one.
One person, I talked to said it is part of a condition called hypnagogia or a natural pattern that happens when the brain is denied of oxygen for too long... personally I call that dead
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:32 pm
glitterboypilot I know of more than 20 people who all had paranormal activity happen; near death experiance, ghost, angel sighting, ufo, demon.... exct... exct... but, always I can never see or even sense one. Hahaha. It's so funny. The people who are interested but never get to experience it are always envious of people who can. And people who can are envious of those who can't.
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Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:38 pm
LinyBeany glitterboypilot I know of more than 20 people who all had paranormal activity happen; near death experiance, ghost, angel sighting, ufo, demon.... exct... exct... but, always I can never see or even sense one. Hahaha. It's so funny. The people who are interested but never get to experience it are always envious of people who can. And people who can are envious of those who can't. I even followed the instructions of one person to the T.... all that happened was he jumped out and tried to scare me and got his nose punched...
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Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 7:40 pm
I have several theories about near death experiences and out of body ones. People seeing heaven, hell, etc, maybe they did. Or, maybe they wanted or expected to so they created that in their subconscious and it became a focus to escape from whatever traumatic event was going on. I know of three memorable stories I've heard that I can recall well enough to share...
Johnny Cash, a famous singer, went into surgery once and was actually angry to wake up alive. He claimed to have seen Heaven and it was so beautiful he wanted to stay, but it just wasn't his time yet.
My Nahma (mom's mom) went into surgery and like Johnny Cash died temporarily. She, however, claimed to be in a nice cozy room with comfortable furniture and conversed with deceased relatives who she had missed. Being 50 or 60 at the time there were quite a few loved ones who moved on. They made it clear to her that where she was isn't an end nor a beginning, but a middle area. Exactly what it looked like, a waiting room. She was waiting to wake up because it wasn't her time yet.
Another guy, who I can't remember the name of, claimed he had gone to Hell. It wasn't burning or even populated. It was icy cold and very lonely. People who believe the story may add that Hell is different for different people because there are different pits of Hell.
My theory is that these places may exist in the subconscious. If reality is merely what we perceive as real, then yes, these people really did go to those places. However those places exist solely in the mind of the one who experienced it and that is why the stories differ from person to person.
Edit: People often seem to neglect the stories that support other religions' belief of the afterlife including Pagan, Wiccan, etc.
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Lord Alucard Ere Casanova
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Posted: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:52 am
This reminds me of the idea that Christ said he'd go prepare a place for everyone. That, too, could explain why it's so different. Everyone just gets a personalized heaven and hell.
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Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:42 pm
Quote: I never had a NDE before but I did have these dreams before or nightmares what ever you want to call it. Quote: I'm so close to Christ he appears in my dreams at random giving me a lesson course and stuff, well a dream Christ that is. Just today I had a dream about Christ I think testing my faith will I die for him if given the chance while there is a easy way out 666 on the hand. I saw a security guard marking people with the mark of the beast in my dream or nightmare whatever you wana call it, eventually it was my time to choose. The guard showed me his riffle and would kill me and he then showed the stamp thingy that bestowed 666 on people's right hand. My body did not wana die but I knew what that 666 mark meant and I was better off being killed in the dream. I told the security guard I choose riffle and then I closed my eyes coming to peace with myself, I felt the rifle towards my head and then the gun shot went off and I didn't feel no pain and I was at peace with myself because I knew I made the ultimate wise choice Christ. Quote: I had another weird dream that felt like education based, this dude nearly looked insane in the principal office in some boarding school for the rich in my dream. He went off talking about something I cant remember, then he put his hand in a fish tank in the principal office and griped a poison fish with invisible quills sticking out of the fish. The dude took his hand out the fish tank and was bleeding with multiple pierce wounds from the fish on inside of his palm. I looked at the principal in my dream and he said call the doctor. The scene shifted and I threw an aluminum wrapped ball into a lit fireplace in my dorm room in my dream judging by the scenery of the place, I gazed into the fire in the chimney for a couple of seconds and then I heard the same dude that put his hand in the fish tank talk in my ears loud saying these next exact words but his body was no where around me. "Hell is real man no joke, you would be stupid to come here and I'm telling it how it is." The dudes voice said in my dream. The dude that said hell is real he said it like a convict spending life on death road serious with regret wishing he could get another chance at life but never would. This dude spoke to me in my dream like another fella in the hood telling it how it is the truth.
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:42 pm
I once dreamt I was in"heaven". I didn't witness myself die or anything. I was just in this place and I called it Heaven, so it was. The sky was multicolor--clouds that were every shade of orange, pink, green , blue, and red. And I could fly and buildings floated in midair. It came complete with "telepathic communication, except nothing was "communicated" as much as made known. Would I call that Heaven? No, but it was heavenlike.
I've never dreamt of hell, but I've had terrifying dreams. Typically of pagan, shamanic ancestors trying to conjure demons to attack me and my family, and then me praying with random people who just happen to appear around me in a circle.
I think my dreams just tell me of my fears and reflected my spiritual growth or state atm.
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Posted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:45 pm
Lord Kilo Von Mortenson Edit: People often seem to neglect the stories that support other religions' belief of the afterlife including Pagan, Wiccan, etc. I think Hindustani NDE's are the most interesting and funny, because they always involve the god of death saying something like "I didn't want Sanjay the gardener; I called for Sanjay the herder. Send this one back!" rofl So NDE's are really the kinks in the spitirual system of callin people from this world into the next razz Gives me hope that some things never change
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:35 am
I had a NDE once, but I didn't see anything. I was crossing the crosswalk on the right side, and I had the right of way, when this gold van comes from behind and turns right in front of me really fast. If I had taken another step I would have gotten hit.
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Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:36 am
Gjornia X I once dreamt I was in"heaven". I didn't witness myself die or anything. I was just in this place and I called it Heaven, so it was. The sky was multicolor--clouds that were every shade of orange, pink, green , blue, and red. And I could fly and buildings floated in midair. It came complete with "telepathic communication, except nothing was "communicated" as much as made known. Would I call that Heaven? No, but it was heavenlike. I've never dreamt of hell, but I've had terrifying dreams. Typically of pagan, shamanic ancestors trying to conjure demons to attack me and my family, and then me praying with random people who just happen to appear around me in a circle. I think my dreams just tell me of my fears and reflected my spiritual growth or state atm. This one time I fasted for four days, only drinking water, when I had a dream that I was in heaven. It was a white palace with gold trimming, and it was kinda cold. I also remember there being a lake. I was on the floor crying and praying to God not to turn me into a demon.
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