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 Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 9:58 am
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 6:17 am
Dawn Landers If you been a bad boy and disobeyed God's orders than yes. But in my case since my avatar is female, if I been a naughty bad girl than yes.
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:55 am
Quoting from the text:
Revelation 3:5 is another verse that impacts this issue. “He who overcomes . . . I will never blot out his name from the book of life.” The “overcomer” mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: “Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world.” And verse 5: “Who is he that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.” (See also 1 John 2:13.) All believers are “overcomers” in that they have been granted victory over the sin and unbelief of the world.
Some people see in Revelation 3:5 the picture of God’s pen poised, ready to strike out the name of any Christian who sins. They read into it something like this: “If you mess up and don’t win the victory, then you’re going to lose your salvation! In fact, I will erase your name from the Book of Life!” But this is NOT what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning.
Never does Scripture say that God erases a believer’s name from the Book of Life—there is never even a warning that He is contemplating it! The wonderful promise of Revelation 3:5 is that Jesus will NOT erase one’s name. Speaking to the “overcomers”—all those redeemed by the blood of the Lamb—Jesus gives His word that He will not delete their names. He affirms that once a name is there, it is there forever. This is based on the faithfulness of God.
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Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:30 pm
Why is it everyone is so focused on the Book of Life? There is more than one book that will be opened on judgement day. Also Christ says that there is only one unforgivable sin and that is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Given the fact he doesn't explain what that is in detail, one can only theorize what it means. Thus the only way to be blotted out is to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, whatever that is.
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:11 pm
Where Jesus speaks of blaspheming the Holy Spirit was when he exorcised someone and the witnesses around him began to say he did it on the authority of Beelzebub (sp?), a demon. So basically, appropriating the power, influence or nature of God to something unholy, unrighteous, and evil is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Few people ever commit this act. Most simply reject the Holy Spirit, which isn't like blaspheming it; those persons can still be redeemed. But most people don't want to accept evil into their lives and if they are convinced God's holy spirit is evil, well.... EDIT: Also, Biblically all blasphemers were conspiring to lead people away from Christ/God. Like one shaman/sage/person who was talking with a king trying to keep him from knowing Jesus.
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:45 pm
Garland-Green Quoting from the text: Revelation 3:5 is another verse that impacts this issue. “He who overcomes . . . I will never blot out his name from the book of life.” The “overcomer” mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: “Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world.” And verse 5: “Who is he that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.” (See also 1 John 2:13.) All believers are “overcomers” in that they have been granted victory over the sin and unbelief of the world. Some people see in Revelation 3:5 the picture of God’s pen poised, ready to strike out the name of any Christian who sins. They read into it something like this: “If you mess up and don’t win the victory, then you’re going to lose your salvation! In fact, I will erase your name from the Book of Life!” But this is NOT what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning. Never does Scripture say that God erases a believer’s name from the Book of Life—there is never even a warning that He is contemplating it! The wonderful promise of Revelation 3:5 is that Jesus will NOT erase one’s name. Speaking to the “overcomers”—all those redeemed by the blood of the Lamb—Jesus gives His word that He will not delete their names. He affirms that once a name is there, it is there forever. This is based on the faithfulness of God. "5 He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." Let us first ask what overcoming means exactly, because based on what you said I am unsure you are aware of what it actually means. Paul in many of his writings points out to that "finishing the race" bit, which is related to death. He even points out to the Colossians who he affirms accepted Christ "And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—," that you will receive this only, "23 if indeed you continue in [a]the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a [c] minister."Paul also points out to Timothy that, "4 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will [a]fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,". How can one fall away from the faith if he was never in it? Simply you cannot. Paul fully teaches over and over again that, you must finish the race and even encourages people to study in fear and trembling over your salvation.
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Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:07 pm
Rsnbl Faith Garland-Green Quoting from the text: Revelation 3:5 is another verse that impacts this issue. “He who overcomes . . . I will never blot out his name from the book of life.” The “overcomer” mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: “Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world.” And verse 5: “Who is he that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.” (See also 1 John 2:13.) All believers are “overcomers” in that they have been granted victory over the sin and unbelief of the world. Some people see in Revelation 3:5 the picture of God’s pen poised, ready to strike out the name of any Christian who sins. They read into it something like this: “If you mess up and don’t win the victory, then you’re going to lose your salvation! In fact, I will erase your name from the Book of Life!” But this is NOT what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning. Never does Scripture say that God erases a believer’s name from the Book of Life—there is never even a warning that He is contemplating it! The wonderful promise of Revelation 3:5 is that Jesus will NOT erase one’s name. Speaking to the “overcomers”—all those redeemed by the blood of the Lamb—Jesus gives His word that He will not delete their names. He affirms that once a name is there, it is there forever. This is based on the faithfulness of God. "5 He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." Let us first ask what overcoming means exactly, because based on what you said I am unsure you are aware of what it actually means. Paul in many of his writings points out to that "finishing the race" bit, which is related to death. He even points out to the Colossians who he affirms accepted Christ "And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—," that you will receive this only, "23 if indeed you continue in [a]the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a [c] minister."Paul also points out to Timothy that, "4 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will [a]fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,". How can one fall away from the faith if he was never in it? Simply you cannot. Paul fully teaches over and over again that, you must finish the race and even encourages people to study in fear and trembling over your salvation. I guess I am a bit conflicted over this matter since I read so many verses in favor of the believers security: Romans 8:39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. The implications of the devil being able to steal someone out of God's hand by deception are enormous. Is not God capable, or wiling to protect those who belong to him? Why was the devil able to deceive these Christians? Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, by whom you are sealed unto the day of redemption. Can you yourself break God's seal? John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. It seems impossible for the elect to be deceived...
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Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 11:59 am
Garland-Green Rsnbl Faith Garland-Green Quoting from the text: Revelation 3:5 is another verse that impacts this issue. “He who overcomes . . . I will never blot out his name from the book of life.” The “overcomer” mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: “Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world.” And verse 5: “Who is he that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.” (See also 1 John 2:13.) All believers are “overcomers” in that they have been granted victory over the sin and unbelief of the world. Some people see in Revelation 3:5 the picture of God’s pen poised, ready to strike out the name of any Christian who sins. They read into it something like this: “If you mess up and don’t win the victory, then you’re going to lose your salvation! In fact, I will erase your name from the Book of Life!” But this is NOT what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning. Never does Scripture say that God erases a believer’s name from the Book of Life—there is never even a warning that He is contemplating it! The wonderful promise of Revelation 3:5 is that Jesus will NOT erase one’s name. Speaking to the “overcomers”—all those redeemed by the blood of the Lamb—Jesus gives His word that He will not delete their names. He affirms that once a name is there, it is there forever. This is based on the faithfulness of God. "5 He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." Let us first ask what overcoming means exactly, because based on what you said I am unsure you are aware of what it actually means. Paul in many of his writings points out to that "finishing the race" bit, which is related to death. He even points out to the Colossians who he affirms accepted Christ "And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—," that you will receive this only, "23 if indeed you continue in [a]the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a [c] minister."Paul also points out to Timothy that, "4 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will [a]fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,". How can one fall away from the faith if he was never in it? Simply you cannot. Paul fully teaches over and over again that, you must finish the race and even encourages people to study in fear and trembling over your salvation. I guess I am a bit conflicted over this matter since I read so many verses in favor of the believers security: Romans 8:39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. The implications of the devil being able to steal someone out of God's hand by deception are enormous. Is not God capable, or wiling to protect those who belong to him? Why was the devil able to deceive these Christians? Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, by whom you are sealed unto the day of redemption. Can you yourself break God's seal? John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. It seems impossible for the elect to be deceived... (I will say that I will not argue this long, simply because whether me or you are right, That doesn't change the fact that if you die believing in Christ you will go to heaven, if you die not believing in him you do not go to heaven. So the final outcome is not decided by whether you or I are right.) ~Romans 8:39 Why I agree, but this does nothing to tell us whether we can lose our salvation, it merely shows the depths of Christs love for us. Now it is quite true that in this instance Christ is speaking to the Christians, but no where in it does it actually say it is speaking about salvation or the lack of. ~John 10:29 Again I agree, no one can take us out of the Fathers hand, but Paul warns Timothy saying "If you deny Him, He will surely deny you" and though he finishes this by saying "If you are unfaithful, He shall remain faithful, for He cannot deny Himself" it does not mean that He will not deny you if you deny Him, that still stands. So I can argue that, though no one can take us from the hands of God, this does not mean we can freely walk away from it. And as Paul also points out in Timothy there will be some of the faith who leave the faith through deception. ~Ephesians 4:30 Matthew 12:31 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." The grieving of the holy Spirit of God is the denial of the holy Spirit of God, as pointed out above if you deny God, He will surely deny you. So here in Ephesians we are warned not to deny the Holy Spirit, which runs in line with other teachings within Scripture but is not an evidence towards once saved always saved. ~John 6:37 Of course He will not, but as pointed out above, we may, by ability of our own free will, walk away from or deny Christ. ~Matthew 24:24 As pointed out by Paul to Timothy above it is possible, meaning that Christ is saying if it is possible to deceive you, then you shall be deceived.
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:24 am
Rsnbl Faith Garland-Green Rsnbl Faith Garland-Green Quoting from the text: Revelation 3:5 is another verse that impacts this issue. “He who overcomes . . . I will never blot out his name from the book of life.” The “overcomer” mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: “Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world.” And verse 5: “Who is he that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.” (See also 1 John 2:13.) All believers are “overcomers” in that they have been granted victory over the sin and unbelief of the world. Some people see in Revelation 3:5 the picture of God’s pen poised, ready to strike out the name of any Christian who sins. They read into it something like this: “If you mess up and don’t win the victory, then you’re going to lose your salvation! In fact, I will erase your name from the Book of Life!” But this is NOT what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning. Never does Scripture say that God erases a believer’s name from the Book of Life—there is never even a warning that He is contemplating it! The wonderful promise of Revelation 3:5 is that Jesus will NOT erase one’s name. Speaking to the “overcomers”—all those redeemed by the blood of the Lamb—Jesus gives His word that He will not delete their names. He affirms that once a name is there, it is there forever. This is based on the faithfulness of God. "5 He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." Let us first ask what overcoming means exactly, because based on what you said I am unsure you are aware of what it actually means. Paul in many of his writings points out to that "finishing the race" bit, which is related to death. He even points out to the Colossians who he affirms accepted Christ "And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—," that you will receive this only, "23 if indeed you continue in [a]the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a [c] minister."Paul also points out to Timothy that, "4 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will [a]fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,". How can one fall away from the faith if he was never in it? Simply you cannot. Paul fully teaches over and over again that, you must finish the race and even encourages people to study in fear and trembling over your salvation. I guess I am a bit conflicted over this matter since I read so many verses in favor of the believers security: Romans 8:39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. The implications of the devil being able to steal someone out of God's hand by deception are enormous. Is not God capable, or wiling to protect those who belong to him? Why was the devil able to deceive these Christians? Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, by whom you are sealed unto the day of redemption. Can you yourself break God's seal? John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. It seems impossible for the elect to be deceived... (I will say that I will not argue this long, simply because whether me or you are right, That doesn't change the fact that if you die believing in Christ you will go to heaven, if you die not believing in him you do not go to heaven. So the final outcome is not decided by whether you or I are right.) ~Romans 8:39 Why I agree, but this does nothing to tell us whether we can lose our salvation, it merely shows the depths of Christs love for us. Now it is quite true that in this instance Christ is speaking to the Christians, but no where in it does it actually say it is speaking about salvation or the lack of. ~John 10:29 Again I agree, no one can take us out of the Fathers hand, but Paul warns Timothy saying "If you deny Him, He will surely deny you" and though he finishes this by saying "If you are unfaithful, He shall remain faithful, for He cannot deny Himself" it does not mean that He will not deny you if you deny Him, that still stands. So I can argue that, though no one can take us from the hands of God, this does not mean we can freely walk away from it. And as Paul also points out in Timothy there will be some of the faith who leave the faith through deception. ~Ephesians 4:30 Matthew 12:31 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." The grieving of the holy Spirit of God is the denial of the holy Spirit of God, as pointed out above if you deny God, He will surely deny you. So here in Ephesians we are warned not to deny the Holy Spirit, which runs in line with other teachings within Scripture but is not an evidence towards once saved always saved. ~John 6:37 Of course He will not, but as pointed out above, we may, by ability of our own free will, walk away from or deny Christ. ~Matthew 24:24 As pointed out by Paul to Timothy above it is possible, meaning that Christ is saying if it is possible to deceive you, then you shall be deceived. I agree with you on that. There is only two ways out of this life, one which most of the world takes and ends up in eternal damnation, and the other which is through Jesus Christ. I guess I just want people to feel secure in Christ. It is horrible to feel insecure about your salvation. To feel that if you do something wrong your name will be blotted out. I suppose it there really is no need to argue over this. You do seem to be right. It does speak for itself, and urges us to stay in the faith which is delivered to us through the apostles.
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Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:44 pm
Garland-Green Rsnbl Faith Garland-Green Rsnbl Faith Garland-Green Quoting from the text: Revelation 3:5 is another verse that impacts this issue. “He who overcomes . . . I will never blot out his name from the book of life.” The “overcomer” mentioned in this letter to Sardis is the Christian. Compare this with 1 John 5:4: “Everyone who is born of God overcomes the world.” And verse 5: “Who is he that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.” (See also 1 John 2:13.) All believers are “overcomers” in that they have been granted victory over the sin and unbelief of the world. Some people see in Revelation 3:5 the picture of God’s pen poised, ready to strike out the name of any Christian who sins. They read into it something like this: “If you mess up and don’t win the victory, then you’re going to lose your salvation! In fact, I will erase your name from the Book of Life!” But this is NOT what the verse says. Jesus is giving a promise here, not a warning. Never does Scripture say that God erases a believer’s name from the Book of Life—there is never even a warning that He is contemplating it! The wonderful promise of Revelation 3:5 is that Jesus will NOT erase one’s name. Speaking to the “overcomers”—all those redeemed by the blood of the Lamb—Jesus gives His word that He will not delete their names. He affirms that once a name is there, it is there forever. This is based on the faithfulness of God. "5 He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels." Let us first ask what overcoming means exactly, because based on what you said I am unsure you are aware of what it actually means. Paul in many of his writings points out to that "finishing the race" bit, which is related to death. He even points out to the Colossians who he affirms accepted Christ "And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, 22 yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach—," that you will receive this only, "23 if indeed you continue in [a]the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a [c] minister."Paul also points out to Timothy that, "4 But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will [a]fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,". How can one fall away from the faith if he was never in it? Simply you cannot. Paul fully teaches over and over again that, you must finish the race and even encourages people to study in fear and trembling over your salvation. I guess I am a bit conflicted over this matter since I read so many verses in favor of the believers security: Romans 8:39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord. John 10:29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. The implications of the devil being able to steal someone out of God's hand by deception are enormous. Is not God capable, or wiling to protect those who belong to him? Why was the devil able to deceive these Christians? Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, by whom you are sealed unto the day of redemption. Can you yourself break God's seal? John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. Matthew 24:24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible. It seems impossible for the elect to be deceived... (I will say that I will not argue this long, simply because whether me or you are right, That doesn't change the fact that if you die believing in Christ you will go to heaven, if you die not believing in him you do not go to heaven. So the final outcome is not decided by whether you or I are right.) ~Romans 8:39 Why I agree, but this does nothing to tell us whether we can lose our salvation, it merely shows the depths of Christs love for us. Now it is quite true that in this instance Christ is speaking to the Christians, but no where in it does it actually say it is speaking about salvation or the lack of. ~John 10:29 Again I agree, no one can take us out of the Fathers hand, but Paul warns Timothy saying "If you deny Him, He will surely deny you" and though he finishes this by saying "If you are unfaithful, He shall remain faithful, for He cannot deny Himself" it does not mean that He will not deny you if you deny Him, that still stands. So I can argue that, though no one can take us from the hands of God, this does not mean we can't freely walk away from it. And as Paul also points out in Timothy there will be some of the faith who leave the faith through deception. ~Ephesians 4:30 Matthew 12:31 "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." The grieving of the holy Spirit of God is the denial of the holy Spirit of God, as pointed out above if you deny God, He will surely deny you. So here in Ephesians we are warned not to deny the Holy Spirit, which runs in line with other teachings within Scripture but is not an evidence towards once saved always saved. ~John 6:37 Of course He will not, but as pointed out above, we may, by ability of our own free will, walk away from or deny Christ. ~Matthew 24:24 As pointed out by Paul to Timothy above it is possible, meaning that Christ is saying if it is possible to deceive you, then you shall be deceived. I agree with you on that. There is only two ways out of this life, one which most of the world takes and ends up in eternal damnation, and the other which is through Jesus Christ. I guess I just want people to feel secure in Christ. It is horrible to feel insecure about your salvation. To feel that if you do something wrong your name will be blotted out. I suppose it there really is no need to argue over this. You do seem to be right. It does speak for itself, and urges us to stay in the faith which is delivered to us through the apostles. There is definitely still an assurance in the faith : ). Paul gives it best as I mentioned earlier after warning Timothy not to deny Christ, that "If you are unfaithful, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself." We will mess up at times, but Christ will not forsake us. It is all about getting back up and starting again, knowing that Christ is for us. Another assurance given is quite clear in that "nothing can take us from His hands" or that outside power can take us away from Christ. (For example, Satan, friends, any sort of demon. None of those things are able to take us from Christ.) That second verse I believe you brought up earlier in the argument, John 10:29. So we do have an Assurance of Salvation. We just must be careful to 1. study ourselves with fear and trembling, and 2. not to be deceived by lying spirits. (This means to "Test Everything, but keep the good" to study and be well learned, or learned enough in Christ that you cannot be fooled away.)
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