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Rebel_Dynasty

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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 2:54 pm


I've posted this in the other guilds I belong to, just to widen the net.

First, I'll throw in some background info. I've been an Eclectic Neo-Pagan for seven years or so. For those first six years, I believed myself to be a Solitary Wiccan (I know, I'm not the first and I sadly will not be the last). Once I had this error pointed out to me in complete clarity, I still didn't fully accept it. I guess it was sort of a shock. Once I came to the realization that it wasn't my spiritual experiences that had been false, but merely a misnomer on my part, I was okay. I also realized that before I had been corrected, I had already been distancing myself from the title of Wiccan.

Now, the issue I have is this; because I obtained so much of my learning from books, and haven't been exposed to many other Pagan, Neo-Pagans, or anything under this particular umbrella term-and because all of these books have had differing opinions on one thing or another, I find that my own beliefs and practices are somewhat muddled.

In the first few years, I did a lot of experimentation. The problem I'm finding now is this: I can't seem to make up my mind whether I see my deities as A) One Goddess and One God, B) One Goddess and One God with many different "faces" and archetypes, who have physical forms but are also part of everything (this also seems like a contradiction) C) All different deities from different pantheons as themselves, or D) Not as literal Goddess and God at all, but as thought-forms.

I keep jumping around, which only causes more confusion when someone directly asks me these questions (and there seems to be a great deal of disdain for soft polytheists, which I find a bit offensive. If I do fit the description of soft poly, I can hardly help it. Everything I've learned has been from books, my experiences, and other sources. So naturally, of course I'm confused as all heck).

I really want to stick to one, because I feel my practices may improve if I have more clarity. The deity issue is the only issue I actually have. Everything else in my spritiual practice makes perfect sense to me. Sure, there are things I may add in as time wears on, things I want to try. I may even discard a bit of info that rings false with me (especially after learning a lot of my reading sources have derived so much from Margaret Murray, who gave false information-whether it was unwittingly or not, I don't know), but that's the thing about Eclecticism. As I mature, so too will my spiritual practices. The main foundation of what I believe will remain the same, and so will a lot of elements-but, other things will come and go.

Anyway, I wondered if anyone else had this source of problem, and if so, how did you manage to figure out what deities worked for you (if any?)

I'm hoping if I meditate on it long enough, it'll come to me, but in the meantime, any input would be much appreciated.
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 5:08 pm


Rebel_Dynasty

I keep jumping around, which only causes more confusion when someone directly asks me these questions (and there seems to be a great deal of disdain for soft polytheists, which I find a bit offensive. If I do fit the description of soft poly, I can hardly help it. Everything I've learned has been from books, my experiences, and other sources. So naturally, of course I'm confused as all heck).
One of my best friends is a Soft Polytheist- she's just a very ethical one, so I don't think the problem is soft-polytheism as much as it's a problem with people who do unethical things by disrespecting the gods of other cultures.


Quote:
Anyway, I wondered if anyone else had this source of problem, and if so, how did you manage to figure out what deities worked for you (if any?)
I had an experience when I first started seeking Wicca- it was really powerful and pretty much unmistakeable, but it also felt so completely different from the other work I did when I was younger that I couldn't see it as anything but what it was. I started talking to people, some here and some other places- one of which is now my HPS. All my senses say that the God and Goddess that called me that night aren't the Loa or even the gods my friends work with.

Esiris
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 5:46 pm


Esiris
Rebel_Dynasty

I keep jumping around, which only causes more confusion when someone directly asks me these questions (and there seems to be a great deal of disdain for soft polytheists, which I find a bit offensive. If I do fit the description of soft poly, I can hardly help it. Everything I've learned has been from books, my experiences, and other sources. So naturally, of course I'm confused as all heck).
One of my best friends is a Soft Polytheist- she's just a very ethical one, so I don't think the problem is soft-polytheism as much as it's a problem with people who do unethical things by disrespecting the gods of other cultures.


Quote:
Anyway, I wondered if anyone else had this source of problem, and if so, how did you manage to figure out what deities worked for you (if any?)
I had an experience when I first started seeking Wicca- it was really powerful and pretty much unmistakeable, but it also felt so completely different from the other work I did when I was younger that I couldn't see it as anything but what it was. I started talking to people, some here and some other places- one of which is now my HPS. All my senses say that the God and Goddess that called me that night aren't the Loa or even the gods my friends work with.


1) That I can understand. But that's sort of where it gets complicated, isn't it? What one person views as disrespecting their gods isn't necessarily viewed the same way by another of the same faith. If I finally figure out which concept of Deity I really identify with, and if it happens to be soft poltheistic, how can I ensure I'm not being disrespectful to someone else's concept of deity? It seems a very thin line to walk. sweatdrop No matter what my beliefs are, and how they differ from someone else's, I want to be sure I don't offend anyone else in that regard.

2) It sounds very incredible. It makes me wonder if I have ignored or otherwise missed any signs that have been thrown my way. I do recall having a very intense, realistic dream about a deep conversation with Isis. This was within my first year studying. At the time, it felt huge to me. I think as time wore on, the skeptical part of me kicked in. If that was my sign (or any others that have followed) I hope they are presented to me again, now that I'm trying to connect with it again.

Thank you for you feedback. smile I really do appreciate it.
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 9:37 pm


Rebel_Dynasty

1) That I can understand. But that's sort of where it gets complicated, isn't it? What one person views as disrespecting their gods isn't necessarily viewed the same way by another of the same faith.
You might be surprised at how some things are true for certain gods in their religions- it's usually when you see people who don't look into the lore and traditions of the cultures and just mix and match. Like, there are Loa that like alcohol and one who is never offered alcohol. The Egyptian gods had rules against animal products and menses. Norse gods had specific rituals with mead and the Greek gods had lots of orthopraxy.

I think if people do enough research, and only work with gods from open traditions- eclectic paganism can be done really well and with respect. If people want to reduce other people's gods to archetypes, it's better to skip the gods all together and just go with the archetypes. Like people don't need to call upon Quan Yin to work with peace, or Eros to work with love.
Quote:

If I finally figure out which concept of Deity I really identify with, and if it happens to be soft poltheistic, how can I ensure I'm not being disrespectful to someone else's concept of deity? It seems a very thin line to walk. sweatdrop No matter what my beliefs are, and how they differ from someone else's, I want to be sure I don't offend anyone else in that regard.

If it is soft-polytheism, working without names and not claiming to know someone else's gods seems to work for my friend. For whatever it is worth- I have never met a Soft Polytheist who has described the same gods as the gods from other cultures. In the rituals I have shared with soft polytheists- the beings called on didn't feel like the gods that have been called on in the hard polytheist rituals.

Quote:
2) It sounds very incredible. It makes me wonder if I have ignored or otherwise missed any signs that have been thrown my way. I do recall having a very intense, realistic dream about a deep conversation with Isis. This was within my first year studying. At the time, it felt huge to me. I think as time wore on, the skeptical part of me kicked in. If that was my sign (or any others that have followed) I hope they are presented to me again, now that I'm trying to connect with it again.

Thank you for you feedback. smile I really do appreciate it.
I hope it helps.

Esiris
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PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 10:57 pm


Esiris: Thanks again. smile Yes, your feedback most certainly helps. The funny thing I've noticed is this: As soon as I ask for advice, I wind up having an epiphany shortly afterward. I'm going to take it slow with the conclusion I've come to; meditate on it for awhile, speak with the God and Goddess to be entirely sure it feels right to me.

But, this is what I've got so far:

-I still worship a God and Goddess, but my respect for the gods of the pantheons is too strong to discount their existence. Therefore, I do believe them to be their own gods. However, they are not the gods I worship. Not because I don't feel they're worthy of worship, but because I believe it takes a great deal more understanding and knowledge of them than I have in order to work with and build a relationship with them.

I think there was a term for this, or something like this. To do with believing in more than one God, but only worshipping the one. In my case though, it's two.

I'll have to check the source they had in Midnight Moon again.

Anyway, I'll close it here. Thanks again, Esiris!
PostPosted: Sun May 13, 2012 11:17 pm


That's just a hard polytheist. Hard polytheists simple believe all Gods exist as independent beings. You don't have to worship all of them or even any of them.

CalledTheRaven
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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 12:01 am


Esiris
The Egyptian gods had rules against animal products

I can't remember if it was all based on UPG or if I read that there were actual sources but it depends on the deity. If I remember right Set was one that wanted animals as offerings.
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:38 pm


CalledTheRaven
That's just a hard polytheist. Hard polytheists simple believe all Gods exist as independent beings. You don't have to worship all of them or even any of them.


I figured I fit more into the Ditheism paradigm, with a polytheistic twist. I revere the two I always have-but I feel the other gods may very well exist, too. This idea actually appeals to me a great deal, but I don't feel comfortable worshipping or working with deities outside of my God and Goddess.

I know I don't have to worship anything. smile I see my deities in physical forms, but I also view them as being part of everything, as well-including myself. I don't really pertain to the "worship" classification, because I don't need to worship myself. I do however, revere and respect my deities, and in so doing, respect myself and everything else. I find it hard to respect all people, though. I find that concept a little too gentle for me.

Edit: Based on my view of my deities as being part of everything, it looks like I have ties into pantheism as well. I also fit into animism ( I think), as I feel all manner of life has a soul.

Rebel_Dynasty

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PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:19 pm


Rebel_Dynasty
CalledTheRaven
That's just a hard polytheist. Hard polytheists simple believe all Gods exist as independent beings. You don't have to worship all of them or even any of them.


I figured I fit more into the Ditheism paradigm, with a polytheistic twist. I revere the two I always have-but I feel the other gods may very well exist, too. This idea actually appeals to me a great deal, but I don't feel comfortable worshipping or working with deities outside of my God and Goddess.
Right. And that in no way make makes you not a hard polytheist. I only work with the the Norse Gods, but I believe all Gods exist so I'm still a hard polytheist. I also doesn't mean you can't be many the other things you've been discussing as well. They're largely describing slightly different aspects of your belief system after all. Also, there's really no need to get all caught up in labeling yourself. It can be convenient for talking to others but it can also be constricting and overly complicated as well.
PostPosted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:10 pm


CalledTheRaven
Rebel_Dynasty
CalledTheRaven
That's just a hard polytheist. Hard polytheists simple believe all Gods exist as independent beings. You don't have to worship all of them or even any of them.


I figured I fit more into the Ditheism paradigm, with a polytheistic twist. I revere the two I always have-but I feel the other gods may very well exist, too. This idea actually appeals to me a great deal, but I don't feel comfortable worshipping or working with deities outside of my God and Goddess.
Right. And that in no way make makes you not a hard polytheist. I only work with the the Norse Gods, but I believe all Gods exist so I'm still a hard polytheist. I also doesn't mean you can't be many the other things you've been discussing as well. They're largely describing slightly different aspects of your belief system after all. Also, there's really no need to get all caught up in labeling yourself. It can be convenient for talking to others but it can also be constricting and overly complicated as well.


I wasn't sure if I could be classified as hard polytheist or not. ^^; But, you do have a good point. The labels are convenient, in the event someone asks you what your belief system is made up of. But in spiritual practice, I'm not going to put much emphasis on them. I've just arrived at the hard polytheistic perspective, since I didn't seem to have much clarity from the soft poly standpoint, so I've been trying to figure out where I sit (if and when it comes up in conversation).

Anyway, thank you for your input. smile

Rebel_Dynasty

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