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Southern Cross Nemesis

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:07 am


... but I heard it said once that when an African American calls another, *****... or some way of that word... it is saying that they are pleased that their ancestors came from slavery. It was on a 60min thingy revolving around huckerberry fin and that book's use of the word

I recently heard that being named a Jew means the same thing to them... That they came out of slavery...

so, why so much hate when someone else uses those words? To me it would be an honor, that they are acknowledging your ancestry
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:23 am


I'm not entirely sure how the culture sees that word, but "*****" actually wasn't a race-specific term until recently. It's original and to this day official definition is simply "ignorant" or "uneducated." It means the "*****" (slang of ******) was never taught basic schooling; reading, writing, math, etc, the elementary stuff.

So technically speaking every child who has yet to go to school could be called that regardless of race or place of birth.

In the days of slavery all slaves were called niggers because education was strictly banned for them. Slaves were not allowed an education and as such were not allowed to be anything other than a ******. What many black people, not all and I don't mean to sound racist by saying if that's what it looks like, but what many black people fail to realize is that they were not alone in being enslaved. White people actually enslaved each other first when they were tribal. Here in America the Native Americans were the first to be enslaved and their treatment was much worse than many people realize or at least acknowledge.

My point is white people and Native Americans were also called niggers during the same time period. I don't know about Asians being enslaved, but being darker than white people I don't doubt at some point they were called that if not a number of other names.

Back to the topic of modern culture, based on what I've seen speaking with black people they see calling each other "*****" as something like "fellow" or "brother," but when a white person calls them that they see it as a reference to slavery. They take offense to it because it leads to them seeing the white person as rude, disrespectful, and arrogant to suggest that black people should still be enslaved.


Because of there being so much sensitivity related to the word I would like to point out that everything I posted here is merely for the benefit of discussion and education, not meant to be an insult, racist, or otherwise disrespectful message. <- My disclaimer, so don't hold a grudge against me... ninja

Edit: The word "******" may have become racist because of black people being the most common, or at least the most thought of, slaves. For years if someone saw a black person they'd assume he/she was a slave, therefore uneducated, and therefore a ******. Thus black skin would directly correspond to that word. Just a theory.

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Qyp

Manly Lunatic

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:29 am


Lol, because... even though we all bleed the same... have the same organs, and biological structure... supposedly saying ****** or ***** is baaaaad because it is "racist" even though a race is actually "Humanity" and not being a different colour skin tone.

So the term "racism" is actually a BIG GIANT ERROR. It's "Bigotry". Meaning making someone else feel lesser then you because they are different.

Also, most fair skinned people, use "******" like it was meant to be used, as an INSULT. It's slang for Negro, Spanish for Black. Latin is "Niger".

Honestly... I do not really care... racism is just a stupid term that has been been given the wrong meaning.

We have all seen in video games that "race" is Human, Elf, some aliens... what ever right? That is the real term... being racist is calling a cat... a v****a!

Yes. Bigotry is just lowering others to make you feel better about yourself. It's all bullying in the end... classic bullying... which is to make you self esteem rise... for some odd reason... or you are jealous of someone... or... you just a douche.

"Ethnicity" is a more... logical term to use, then "Race". Especially on official forms.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:33 am


Lord Kilo Von Mortenson
I'm not entirely sure how the culture sees that word, but "*****" actually wasn't a race-specific term until recently. It's original and to this day official definition is simply "ignorant" or "uneducated." It means the "*****" (slang of ******) was never taught basic schooling; reading, writing, math, etc, the elementary stuff.

So technically speaking every child who has yet to go to school could be called that regardless of race or place of birth.

In the days of slavery all slaves were called niggers because education was strictly banned for them. Slaves were not allowed an education and as such were not allowed to be anything other than a ******. What many black people, not all and I don't mean to sound racist by saying if that's what it looks like, but what many black people fail to realize is that they were not alone in being enslaved. White people actually enslaved each other first when they were tribal. Here in America the Native Americans were the first to be enslaved and their treatment was much worse than many people realize or at least acknowledge.

My point is white people and Native Americans were also called niggers during the same time period. I don't know about Asians being enslaved, but being darker than white people I don't doubt at some point they were called that if not a number of other names.

Back to the topic of modern culture, based on what I've seen speaking with black people they see calling each other "*****" as something like "fellow" or "brother," but when a white person calls them that they see it as a reference to slavery. They take offense to it because it leads to them seeing the white person as rude, disrespectful, and arrogant to suggest that black people should still be enslaved.


Because of there being so much sensitivity related to the word I would like to point out that everything I posted here is merely for the benefit of discussion and education, not meant to be an insult, racist, or otherwise disrespectful message. <- My disclaimer, so don't hold a grudge against me... ninja

Edit: The word "******" may have become racist because of black people being the most common, or at least the most thought of, slaves. For years if someone saw a black person they'd assume he/she was a slave, therefore uneducated, and therefore a ******. Thus black skin would directly correspond to that word. Just a theory.

Where the HECK did you get your info from? Sounds like a load of crap to me...

Qyp

Manly Lunatic


Southern Cross Nemesis

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 9:56 am


I only brought it up, cause I was listening in on a political channel may dad left on... and they was talking about religion.

I know I know, politics and religion are two things that shouldn't go together.

But they was talking about how if obama isn't voted out of the office, it may lead to a religious war in the US. And that the republicans and christians should get behind a guy who is a mormon... I can't tell you much more, other than I was confused, they was using scripture. And a number of other things...

I do know it was a political show, cause I have seen it on before. But, I have never seen them, be backing any candidate on anything except today...
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:24 am


Southern_cross_nemesis
I only brought it up, cause I was listening in on a political channel may dad left on... and they was talking about religion.

I know I know, politics and religion are two things that shouldn't go together.

But they was talking about how if obama isn't voted out of the office, it may lead to a religious war in the US. And that the republicans and christians should get behind a guy who is a mormon... I can't tell you much more, other than I was confused, they was using scripture. And a number of other things...

I do know it was a political show, cause I have seen it on before. But, I have never seen them, be backing any candidate on anything except today...

Who is this Mormon?

The only Republican I like, is Ron Paul. I am in New Zealand, so I am unaware of American Politics.

Honestly, I am aware that the end times are here... I forgot what made me realize what it was though... Then again... I also believe the end times is every day... Since Jesus resurrected. He said "Don't wait up my brothers and sisters, I will be back when I feel like it!" /fake quote

But really, civil war in the USA... lol... If more crap like SOPA keep being put up by the dumb old people running your country into the ground... well yes, it's imminent.

Qyp

Manly Lunatic


deadmanjay

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:32 am


Southern_cross_nemesis
I only brought it up, cause I was listening in on a political channel may dad left on... and they was talking about religion.

I know I know, politics and religion are two things that shouldn't go together.

But they was talking about how if obama isn't voted out of the office, it may lead to a religious war in the US. And that the republicans and christians should get behind a guy who is a mormon... I can't tell you much more, other than I was confused, they was using scripture. And a number of other things...

I do know it was a political show, cause I have seen it on before. But, I have never seen them, be backing any candidate on anything except today...


So because Obama is black that must make him a Muslim and that all black people are Muslims? Obama is a Christian and probably a better one that half of the leaders of the Tea Party. Ya know, I thought Glen Beck should have been arrested a long time ago when he said "we" should take America back by force. Take it back from who? The black people?

Also, not every black person likes the word or allows the younger generation to use to them. james earl jones and crosby have it right. It is a word from the past that should stay in the past. Other people say that it refers to the group of individuals who do not respect themselves or others and will remain ignorant.

Sign of respect or ancestry my a**.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:36 am


Qyp
Who is this Mormon?

The only Republican I like, is Ron Paul. I am in New Zealand, so I am unaware of American Politics.

Honestly, I am aware that the end times are here... I forgot what made me realize what it was though... Then again... I also believe the end times is every day... Since Jesus resurrected. He said "Don't wait up my brothers and sisters, I will be back when I feel like it!" /fake quote

But really, civil war in the USA... lol... If more crap like SOPA keep being put up by the dumb old people running your country into the ground... well yes, it's imminent.


Mitt Romney

Southern Cross Nemesis


Qyp

Manly Lunatic

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:38 am


deadmanjay
Southern_cross_nemesis
I only brought it up, cause I was listening in on a political channel may dad left on... and they was talking about religion.

I know I know, politics and religion are two things that shouldn't go together.

But they was talking about how if obama isn't voted out of the office, it may lead to a religious war in the US. And that the republicans and christians should get behind a guy who is a mormon... I can't tell you much more, other than I was confused, they was using scripture. And a number of other things...

I do know it was a political show, cause I have seen it on before. But, I have never seen them, be backing any candidate on anything except today...


So because Obama is black that must make him a Muslim and that all black people are Muslims? Obama is a Christian and probably a better one that half of the leaders of the Tea Party. Ya know, I thought Glen Beck should have been arrested a long time ago when he said "we" should take America back by force. Take it back from who? The black people?

Also, not every black person likes the word or allows the younger generation to use to them. james earl jones and crosby have it right. It is a word from the past that should stay in the past. Other people say that it refers to the group of individuals who do not respect themselves or others and will remain ignorant.

Sign of respect or ancestry my a**.

Yes, I think I have heard Crosby's talk on the word ****** and bigotry in general as well. Wasn't that just before he did the "Kids Say the Darndest Things"? or after?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:41 am


Southern_cross_nemesis
Qyp
Who is this Mormon?

The only Republican I like, is Ron Paul. I am in New Zealand, so I am unaware of American Politics.

Honestly, I am aware that the end times are here... I forgot what made me realize what it was though... Then again... I also believe the end times is every day... Since Jesus resurrected. He said "Don't wait up my brothers and sisters, I will be back when I feel like it!" /fake quote

But really, civil war in the USA... lol... If more crap like SOPA keep being put up by the dumb old people running your country into the ground... well yes, it's imminent.


Mitt Romney

Seen some of his speeches... sounds like a douche.

Qyp

Manly Lunatic


Southern Cross Nemesis

PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 10:41 am


deadmanjay

So because Obama is black that must make him a Muslim and that all black people are Muslims? Obama is a Christian and probably a better one that half of the leaders of the Tea Party. Ya know, I thought Glen Beck should have been arrested a long time ago when he said "we" should take America back by force. Take it back from who? The black people?

Also, not every black person likes the word or allows the younger generation to use to them. james earl jones and crosby have it right. It is a word from the past that should stay in the past. Other people say that it refers to the group of individuals who do not respect themselves or others and will remain ignorant.

Sign of respect or ancestry my a**.
Hay, I don't really care for the word myself. In fact I hate labels. Personally, I could care less for Obama's religious standings. I was just trying to understand, why it is good one way and bad the other.

My only care is that the economy picks up again, so millions of people that want to work can have a job again. The only thing I really don't like what Obama did, was his health care bill. It was passed almost too easily, in my opinion... and has too many things I don't like
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:40 pm


Southern_cross_nemesis
deadmanjay

So because Obama is black that must make him a Muslim and that all black people are Muslims? Obama is a Christian and probably a better one that half of the leaders of the Tea Party. Ya know, I thought Glen Beck should have been arrested a long time ago when he said "we" should take America back by force. Take it back from who? The black people?

Also, not every black person likes the word or allows the younger generation to use to them. james earl jones and crosby have it right. It is a word from the past that should stay in the past. Other people say that it refers to the group of individuals who do not respect themselves or others and will remain ignorant.

Sign of respect or ancestry my a**.
Hay, I don't really care for the word myself. In fact I hate labels. Personally, I could care less for Obama's religious standings. I was just trying to understand, why it is good one way and bad the other.

My only care is that the economy picks up again, so millions of people that want to work can have a job again. The only thing I really don't like what Obama did, was his health care bill. It was passed almost too easily, in my opinion... and has too many things I don't like


You should look at who wanted most of those changes. The Democrats gave in way too easy on parts that were just not needed.

deadmanjay


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:08 pm


Qyp
Lord Kilo Von Mortenson
I'm not entirely sure how the culture sees that word, but "*****" actually wasn't a race-specific term until recently. It's original and to this day official definition is simply "ignorant" or "uneducated." It means the "*****" (slang of ******) was never taught basic schooling; reading, writing, math, etc, the elementary stuff.

So technically speaking every child who has yet to go to school could be called that regardless of race or place of birth.

In the days of slavery all slaves were called niggers because education was strictly banned for them. Slaves were not allowed an education and as such were not allowed to be anything other than a ******. What many black people, not all and I don't mean to sound racist by saying if that's what it looks like, but what many black people fail to realize is that they were not alone in being enslaved. White people actually enslaved each other first when they were tribal. Here in America the Native Americans were the first to be enslaved and their treatment was much worse than many people realize or at least acknowledge.

My point is white people and Native Americans were also called niggers during the same time period. I don't know about Asians being enslaved, but being darker than white people I don't doubt at some point they were called that if not a number of other names.

Back to the topic of modern culture, based on what I've seen speaking with black people they see calling each other "*****" as something like "fellow" or "brother," but when a white person calls them that they see it as a reference to slavery. They take offense to it because it leads to them seeing the white person as rude, disrespectful, and arrogant to suggest that black people should still be enslaved.


Because of there being so much sensitivity related to the word I would like to point out that everything I posted here is merely for the benefit of discussion and education, not meant to be an insult, racist, or otherwise disrespectful message. <- My disclaimer, so don't hold a grudge against me... ninja

Edit: The word "******" may have become racist because of black people being the most common, or at least the most thought of, slaves. For years if someone saw a black person they'd assume he/she was a slave, therefore uneducated, and therefore a ******. Thus black skin would directly correspond to that word. Just a theory.

Where the HECK did you get your info from? Sounds like a load of crap to me...


An old dictionary defined "******" as I described and a history class taught about how slaves were treated. I've also spoken with allot of people who use the term having been through the Northwest of America (where it's not commonly used), the Southeast of America (where it is used daily be most people), and a military academy where again the term was used daily by most of my platoon. I used it once and got lectured, fortunately I was around friends, so I asked questions and had it explained by them. Along with having read the word from an old dictionary they agreed that it means ignorant, but the word isn't socially acceptable when used by white people anyways. I pointed out that could be considered racist in itself and they shrugged, they wouldn't hold it against me but they couldn't stop others from taking it as a serious offense.

Edit: I did mean to edit out that white people may have been called niggers as well. I know Native Americans have been and still are being Native American myself. My dad's white so I have white skin, but people find out I'm Native American and some of them will call me a ******. The reason I realized white people probably wouldn't have been called niggers, at least not commonly, is language. Language changes over time and I'm not certain that word existed back when slaves were white people. It probably didn't.

Also, having looked up the word just now I see the definition has since changed. Apparently the myth of it being strictly based on black skin won over in the end. That is how words change, when society starts seeing the word as meaning something other than it's original definition the definition changes to fit what society interprets it as.
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:17 pm


Wow... You hit a sore spot with me SCN...

The whole subject reeks IMO... I understand your questions on it, don't get me wrong, but the fact that if you are white, and you have an opinion or a question, you have to walk on eggshells in discussing it.... Well... It's bullshit.

White people were forced into slavery before the black folks were. In fact, my ancestry includes 3 white men who were forced to come over to pay debts to society. One because he owed money, and two because they caused too much trouble in Europe...

That was before slavers started cruising along the African coast to buy slaves who were sold by their own people. Many of the African men who were sold into slavery were considered criminals or owed debts to their fellow tribesmen. The reasons they were introduced into the life of slavery were very much like the reasons white men were...

Many of the women were sold by their own families... as is the case with one of my female ancestors... Who ended up marrying my debt entrenched male ancestor...

It wasn't like white folk went in and started hunting African natives to sell as slaves. They bought those people from their fellow tribesmen.... If the European slavers hadn't of bought the slaves from the tribes there, then they would have still been slaves of their own people.

The reason African slaves continued on and became more popular was because there was no court orders of specific time periods that bought slaves could be forced to work. Also, since most African slaves had no familial ties, or histories, it was easier to keep them oppressed....

Does this make the fact that people were forced into such situations any better? No... Does the fact that white people were slaves in the USA any more tolerable? No.

You see, I also have Native American blood in my ancestry, and they were treated worse than anyone above. THEY WERE hunted, and their families and tribes were systematically oppressed, demeaned, and eliminated, either by straight up killing, or moving hundreds of miles out of sight... My family even has a journal kept by a several great grandmother of mine, how all of the men and boys in her tribe were killed when she was a girl, and all of the women were placed in what basically was a concentration camp.

Yet, if we look beyond American history, we find similar stories through out all of history... Are there still grudges held? Of course... but as far as I know, the 'race' wars of the USA are pretty unique in that a large faction in one ethnic group is still calling upon another to make things right...

As long as this behavior continues, we will not be able to progress passed ethnic bigotry. In calling for 'Affirmative action' and "Restitution' people will continue to set themselves apart as a different "Race".

Eltanin Sadachbia

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 6:33 pm


Eltanin Sadachbia
Wow... You hit a sore spot with me SCN...

The whole subject reeks IMO... I understand your questions on it, don't get me wrong, but the fact that if you are white, and you have an opinion or a question, you have to walk on eggshells in discussing it.... Well... It's bullshit.

White people were forced into slavery before the black folks were. In fact, my ancestry includes 3 white men who were forced to come over to pay debts to society. One because he owed money, and two because they caused too much trouble in Europe...

That was before slavers started cruising along the African coast to buy slaves who were sold by their own people. Many of the African men who were sold into slavery were considered criminals or owed debts to their fellow tribesmen. The reasons they were introduced into the life of slavery were very much like the reasons white men were...

Many of the women were sold by their own families... as is the case with one of my female ancestors... Who ended up marrying my debt entrenched male ancestor...

It wasn't like white folk went in and started hunting African natives to sell as slaves. They bought those people from their fellow tribesmen.... If the European slavers hadn't of bought the slaves from the tribes there, then they would have still been slaves of their own people.

The reason African slaves continued on and became more popular was because there was no court orders of specific time periods that bought slaves could be forced to work. Also, since most African slaves had no familial ties, or histories, it was easier to keep them oppressed....

Does this make the fact that people were forced into such situations any better? No... Does the fact that white people were slaves in the USA any more tolerable? No.

You see, I also have Native American blood in my ancestry, and they were treated worse than anyone above. THEY WERE hunted, and their families and tribes were systematically oppressed, demeaned, and eliminated, either by straight up killing, or moving hundreds of miles out of sight... My family even has a journal kept by a several great grandmother of mine, how all of the men and boys in her tribe were killed when she was a girl, and all of the women were placed in what basically was a concentration camp.

Yet, if we look beyond American history, we find similar stories through out all of history... Are there still grudges held? Of course... but as far as I know, the 'race' wars of the USA are pretty unique in that a large faction in one ethnic group is still calling upon another to make things right...

As long as this behavior continues, we will not be able to progress passed ethnic bigotry. In calling for 'Affirmative action' and "Restitution' people will continue to set themselves apart as a different "Race".


I never knew that about you, Elta. It seems we both have some family history in this area. Being Native American I heard about the mistreatment my relatives got from being raised in a racist community. We actually have our own Martin Luther King Jr equivalent who stood up for Native American rights in Alaska. I'll have to ask my mom for her name, I can never remember it, but we have a newspaper clipping from an article that was about her. She's my great great grandma.
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