|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2012 9:59 pm
if we had this talk... but, niece is a Wiccan... And claims beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Easter was(and is) a pagen holiday and refuses to listen to reason...
Personally, I think it is combination of three holidays... made simple under one day. Jewish/Hebrew's passover, the celebration of Christ's Rez... and the pagan holiday for a son marrying his mother... or something like that... not sure confused
So, cruelty to animals aside... What do you think of the holiday?
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:42 am
Easter in and of itself is a uniquely Christian holiday. In fact it is the first and earliest recorded Christian holiday. The way it's celebrated secularly though in our part of the world, (Easter Bunny, egg hunting, etc) is remnants of some pagan tradition that the converts liked celebrating but changed the meaning to because well Germanic and English people in general are people of habit. If they are celebrating something during a certain time of the year, they will keep celebrating during that time of the year but change the meaning as the culture changes. Bebe takes credit for "Christianizing" the holiday but more than likely it was a holiday some Bishops didn't like but couldn't stop them from celebrating and just kinda went with it (i.e. Bebe made up some stuff to save face). We see evidence of this in other cultures, like in Mexico and the Chinese Rites Controversy.
Easter is not a co-opted Spring Equinox, since is always after the Spring Equinox. In fact it's ALWAYS, celebrated the first Sunday after the first full Moon of Pashal (Passover) which is ALWAYS after the spring equinox. The earliest it can ever occur is 3 days after the spring equinox. Pashal is the Greek name for the month of Passover. Christians use a variant calendar to calculate the date of Passover since sometime around 200 or 300 CE, they didn't want to consult with Rabbis for when Passover actually was since they wanted to distance themselves from Judaism. I don't think it's possible anymore for Easter Sunday to be on the same week as modern Passover now but I could be mistaken on this one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:16 am
Meh, ask if she has even researched this... or she just listened to some other Wiccan and believed it to be facts because a Wiccan said it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:47 am
Southern_cross_nemesis if we had this talk... but, niece is a Wiccan... And claims beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Easter was(and is) a pagen holiday and refuses to listen to reason... Personally, I think it is combination of three holidays... made simple under one day. Jewish/Hebrew's passover, the celebration of Christ's Rez... and the pagan holiday for a son marrying his mother... or something like that... not sure confused So, cruelty to animals aside... What do you think of the holiday? This may throw her for a loop. Ask her what does the celebration of the resurrection of Christ have to do with a pagan holiday?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 2:50 am
Qyp Meh, ask if she has even researched this... or she just listened to some other Wiccan and believed it to be facts because a Wiccan said it. There's still quite a few protestant Churches that spread this misinformation too. It was part of the early protestant campaign to demonize Catholics as not "true Christians", by claiming "Easter, Christmas, the Eucharist are all pagenz!!!"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:10 am
rmcdra Qyp Meh, ask if she has even researched this... or she just listened to some other Wiccan and believed it to be facts because a Wiccan said it. There's still quite a few protestant Churches that spread this misinformation too. It was part of the early protestant campaign to demonize Catholics as not "true Christians", by claiming "Easter, Christmas, the Eucharist are all pagenz!!!" Well... I had some thought that because the Roman Emperor Constantine was the one who brought Christianity into the Roman Empire through force right? So suddenly changing religions... would be really weird... a lot of habits would just stick around... I bet most Saints were just that tradition of putting the epic heroes into a god-like stature. Heracles could have been a real guy who got his story turned into something very exaggerated. So really... the Saints are no different... there is more facts... but they still just humans like you and me... their deeds are exaggerated.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:39 am
Qyp rmcdra Qyp Meh, ask if she has even researched this... or she just listened to some other Wiccan and believed it to be facts because a Wiccan said it. There's still quite a few protestant Churches that spread this misinformation too. It was part of the early protestant campaign to demonize Catholics as not "true Christians", by claiming "Easter, Christmas, the Eucharist are all pagenz!!!" Well... I had some thought that because the Roman Emperor Constantine was the one who brought Christianity into the Roman Empire through force right? So suddenly changing religions... would be really weird... a lot of habits would just stick around... I bet most Saints were just that tradition of putting the epic heroes into a god-like stature. Could very well be, though part of the reason Constantine adopted Christianity was because it was growing in popularity during his time with the people. Quote: Heracles could have been a real guy who got his story turned into something very exaggerated. So really... the Saints are no different... there is more facts... but they still just humans like you and me... their deeds are exaggerated. Could very well be though with how wild historic truth can actually be, its not out of the realm of possibility that the saints really did perform such feats. An example from personal experience is my great-grandfather. He could heal a burn or wart and stop bleeding of someone by placing his hand over the wound and saying a bible verse. Now granted I never met the man, but my grandmother, grandfather, and father all swear to seeing this firsthand. Granted there is the likelihood of them making it up but the fact that they still insist that it is true to this day tells me that there is something more to it than what I know. As much as we know about the human body there is still a lot that we don't know and anomalies that often don't get recorded since it skews research. Yes saints are humans. It wouldn't make sense in the context of the religion if they weren't. Saints are supposed to models of Christians who "made it". The best of the best. Even if they were just made up, they are still role-models to look up to. In the catholic and eastern orthodox cosmology, nearly everyone that dies ends up in purgatory, to burn off any remaining sins before one can go to heaven. Some individuals have so little sin, that they are able to by-pass purgatory all together and end up in heaven. The individuals that bypass all this are called saints. Now the modern process of getting a person recognized as a saint (canonized), is very lengthy. It can take many years after the person dies before the Church will officially recognize someone as a saint because research has to go into the person's life, examination of writings, in particular handwritten documents, any miracles associated with the person in question, etc. Anyway I'm derailing the topic now. Why not create a new topic on it or look up more about the concept of saints.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:52 am
rmcdra Qyp rmcdra Qyp Meh, ask if she has even researched this... or she just listened to some other Wiccan and believed it to be facts because a Wiccan said it. There's still quite a few protestant Churches that spread this misinformation too. It was part of the early protestant campaign to demonize Catholics as not "true Christians", by claiming "Easter, Christmas, the Eucharist are all pagenz!!!" Well... I had some thought that because the Roman Emperor Constantine was the one who brought Christianity into the Roman Empire through force right? So suddenly changing religions... would be really weird... a lot of habits would just stick around... I bet most Saints were just that tradition of putting the epic heroes into a god-like stature. Could very well be, though part of the reason Constantine adopted Christianity was because it was growing in popularity during his time with the people. Quote: Heracles could have been a real guy who got his story turned into something very exaggerated. So really... the Saints are no different... there is more facts... but they still just humans like you and me... their deeds are exaggerated. Could very well be though with how wild historic truth can actually be, its not out of the realm of possibility that the saints really did perform such feats. An example from personal experience is my great-grandfather. He could heal a burn or wart and stop bleeding of someone by placing his hand over the wound and saying a bible verse. Now granted I never met the man, but my grandmother, grandfather, and father all swear to seeing this firsthand. Granted there is the likelihood of them making it up but the fact that they still insist that it is true to this day tells me that there is something more to it than what I know. As much as we know about the human body there is still a lot that we don't know and anomalies that often don't get recorded since it skews research. Yes saints are humans. It wouldn't make sense in the context of the religion if they weren't. Saints are supposed to models of Christians who "made it". The best of the best. Even if they were just made up, they are still role-models to look up to. In the catholic and eastern orthodox cosmology, nearly everyone that dies ends up in purgatory, to burn off any remaining sins before one can go to heaven. Some individuals have so little sin, that they are able to by-pass purgatory all together and end up in heaven. The individuals that bypass all this are called saints. Now the modern process of getting a person recognized as a saint (canonized), is very lengthy. It can take many years after the person dies before the Church will officially recognize someone as a saint because research has to go into the person's life, examination of writings, in particular handwritten documents, any miracles associated with the person in question, etc. Anyway I'm derailing the topic now. Why not create a new topic on it or look up more about the concept of saints. Hm, yes... but what I mean by exaggerated... was they may have done what was said... except instead of 100 men defeated/converted/something else... they turned it into 1000 men defeated/converted/something else all on their own. So it's just a deed that happened and someone just added some omph to it to make them look bigger then others... And no one is Sinless... we are all born liars. There is scientific evidence we lie naturally, and we have to learn the Truth. By age 4... we normally know "right from wrong"... Anyways... Easter is probably been tossed around a bit... or maybe it hasn't... Who really cares of Christians "stole a holiday"... Honestly, those kind of people that pick fights are the pathetic ones. I wonder what the dates would be without Leap Years, or if we take in what some scientists said about the star that guided them Wise Men was probably a Super Nova at a convenient time...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 11:41 am
Qyp Hm, yes... but what I mean by exaggerated... was they may have done what was said... except instead of 100 men defeated/converted/something else... they turned it into 1000 men defeated/converted/something else all on their own. So it's just a deed that happened and someone just added some omph to it to make them look bigger then others... Oh I get you. That was very common in the ancient world. Even today we do this. Quote: And no one is Sinless... we are all born liars. There is scientific evidence we lie naturally, and we have to learn the Truth. By age 4... we normally know "right from wrong"... I get that. Infact I do bring up something similar to this quite frequently. When did I claim this? Quote: Anyways... Easter is probably been tossed around a bit... or maybe it hasn't... Who really cares of Christians "stole a holiday"... Honestly, those kind of people that pick fights are the pathetic ones. I wonder what the dates would be without Leap Years, or if we take in what some scientists said about the star that guided them Wise Men was probably a Super Nova at a convenient time... Possible and agreed, it's usually to pick fights or to claim who's "more Christian" or how "un-Christian" someone is. While irrelevant to the big scheme of things, it's still interesting to speculate and study the origins of our traditions and practices, at least for me anyway
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:07 pm
rmcdra Qyp Hm, yes... but what I mean by exaggerated... was they may have done what was said... except instead of 100 men defeated/converted/something else... they turned it into 1000 men defeated/converted/something else all on their own. So it's just a deed that happened and someone just added some omph to it to make them look bigger then others... Oh I get you. That was very common in the ancient world. Even today we do this. Quote: And no one is Sinless... we are all born liars. There is scientific evidence we lie naturally, and we have to learn the Truth. By age 4... we normally know "right from wrong"... I get that. Infact I do bring up something similar to this quite frequently. When did I claim this? Quote: Anyways... Easter is probably been tossed around a bit... or maybe it hasn't... Who really cares of Christians "stole a holiday"... Honestly, those kind of people that pick fights are the pathetic ones. I wonder what the dates would be without Leap Years, or if we take in what some scientists said about the star that guided them Wise Men was probably a Super Nova at a convenient time... Possible and agreed, it's usually to pick fights or to claim who's "more Christian" or how "un-Christian" someone is. While irrelevant to the big scheme of things, it's still interesting to speculate and study the origins of our traditions and practices, at least for me anyway Yes, origins are nice to know sometimes... And I actually saw it in a documentary, that around age 4 we learn the different between "right and wrong". Anyway, the day really doesn't matter, as long as we celebrate Easter, and Christimas... as CHRISTIAN holidays... Like, Jesus sacrifice, and Birth... It really doesn't matter what day we celebrate it... It's like in the Commonwealth countries celebrate the Queen's Birthday... NOT on her Birthday...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 3:06 am
Qyp And I actually saw it in a documentary, that around age 4 we learn the different between "right and wrong". Cool. I'm not disagreeing with you on this though, never was. That sounds about right. Quote: Anyway, the day really doesn't matter, as long as we celebrate Easter, and Christimas... as CHRISTIAN holidays... Like, Jesus sacrifice, and Birth... It really doesn't matter what day we celebrate it... It's like in the Commonwealth countries celebrate the Queen's Birthday... NOT on her Birthday... Well yeah of course. All I'm getting at is that I don't believe they were dates selected to convert the pagans by co-opting pagan holidays and I find that to be a load of horseshit.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
