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Mary Sues 101

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xLieselotte
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:38 am


What is a Mary Sue?

So when RPing, I'm sure you've all stumbled upon the term "Mary Sue." Most people know them as a too perfect, idealized character that craves for spotlight and attention. They're difficult to RP with since they expect other characters to be at awe in their "greatness." They get upset when others do not act according to their plans and it just causes a lot of needless drama.

So StrawberryZ0mbie will address this topic and inform everyone in detail what a Mary Sue is. Even though you know what a Mary Sue is, this is still a good read to help you make a better characters for the RP and hopefully this will help avoid dramas to come in the future.

Now some traits mentioned in the posts might apply to you, but they can still work in an RP and aren't necessarily a bad thing. You just need to tread carefully and try not to cross the border to being a Mary Sue.

Well then, hopefully you learn something new from this!
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:42 am


StrawberryZ0mbie

I hear the word Mary Sue a lot, but what the heck is this mysterious thing? ~_~

There are a lot of types of Mary Sues. That said, usually, all these types of characters are idealized (in their creator’s eyes), and often, what we call a self insert. Basically, they are either what the RPer wishes they could be, or the character is designed to make everyone like them, fawn on them, be in awe of them, or feel sorry for them. The point of the character is to hog the spotlight in some way.

Okay, that actually sounds fun. So why is having Mary Sue so bad?

Well, in addition to generally being sort of annoying or giving your fellow RPers headaches from the amount of face-palming they have to do when reading a Mary Sue’s post, they can also be difficult to respond to, or can disrupt RP scenes, and/or cause drama.

A lot of times, if someone is playing a Sue, their posts are sort of jarringly disconnected from everything else going on. That’s because the person is usually trying to ‘show off’ so much that their character does completely random (and often inappropriate things) in the middle of scenes, trying to get everyone to stop and pay attention to their character. The problem is that if it’s in the middle of a lot of other stuff going on, no one is going to want to stop and say “Hey, Alyxendrrah is batting her beautiful icey blue eyes again and gracefully flipping her waist length, raven tresses over her gently sloping shoulders, while simultaneously breaking into a lovely, haunting melody in the middle of class!” Doing those kinds of things is likely going to lead to your character getting ignored, or being left out. And no one wants that.

The other issue is that a lot of people have deep emotional connections to their Mary Sues—usually because the Sue is their ideal, or they are trying to live vicariously through the Sue. They can’t separate themselves from the character. So guess what happens if other characters think the Mary Sue is annoying and stupid? Well, the RPer gets mad about it and starts complaining. Drama ensues. It’s all good and well for people who like to grab popcorn and watch internet drama for laughs. But not really so fun for the people involved.

Mary Sues are all show. They lack depth and interesting personalities. There is nothing beyond the polished, sparkly surface that is meant to impress. And because of that, they’re actually kind of boring. You try so hard to make a character that will have everyone squirming in jealousy and amazement, and what you actually get is a character everyone rolls their eyes at because they are dull and annoying.

That sounds horrible! D= How do I avoid one of these terrible things!?


Well, to put it in simple terms…don’t try to play a character that is ideal in your eyes. It doesn’t matter if the character has ‘technical’ flaws and imperfections. A lot of people will wave around a banner that says “My character isn’t perfect!” but the character still represents an ideal to that RPer, so it’s the same thing. The question is about what the character means to you, the RPer, and what your motivations are. If the goal is to show off and get attention, it’s a Sue. So don’t make a character with that in mind because as awesome as showing off and getting attention are, the RP doesn’t exist for people to fawn over your character.

But here are some practical tips to character building since sometimes we’re not aware of our own motives for doing things (Hey, I totally get that not everyone likes to psychoanalyze themselves). They’re just suggestions to help you easily create awesome characters with a surplus of depth and interest, and a huge deficit in flat, fluffy Sue qualities.

xLieselotte
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xLieselotte
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:43 am


StrawberryZ0mbie
And awaaaaay we go.

The first tip to remember in an RP like this is to not create over powered characters…like someone who has complete control over fire, and can run super fast, and is a genius, and a great artist, with a superb singing voice, and is very strong, with enhanced senses, and quick reflexes. And they’re immune to everything else and you basically need Godzilla and an alien mothership to even mess up their hair, much less give them a black eye. God modding is a very obvious sign of Sues so you want to avoid it. If you’re giving a character any sort of skills and abilities, be sure they also have weakness and limitations.

Also, try to make sure you aren’t constantly showing off their power when it’s not really appropriate, or when there isn’t a reason to do so. It just makes them look silly.

Your character isn’t over powered? Well, awesome! Move to tip number 2.

Craaaaaaaaazy Names.

This may seem silly, but names can sometimes be a clue that you’re heading into Sue territory. I would never tell someone not to name their character a particular thing. But if your characters are all named things like Poet Heavenly, or Marco Stormryder, you may want to step back and have a closer look at the character to inspect for lurking Mary Sue traits.

If your character has a Japanese name? They should probably, actually be Japanese owing to the fact that you don’t actually find a lot of people who aren’t Japanese with names like Arashi Inugami or Yuki Yoshikawa. Of course, you can go with an off the wall name if you want. Nothing is stopping you because parents really do name their kids things like Apple, and Misty Rains. But if your character has a name like Luna Nightwind or Raven Bloodthorn because you want people to understand their haunting beauty or dark, angsty soul, it might be a better idea to find something less dramatic.

People aren’t usually named because of their characteristics. If that were true, my name would be I Walk Into Walls A lot instead of Lisa. (seriously, I really do walk into walls…it’s pretty pathetic. And painful). So there’s really no reason to name your character something specific because of their traits (unless you’re going for irony, satire or allegory—but let’s face it, in most RPs, you’re not delving quite that deep).

Is…is that a BLEMISH!? OHNOES!


So here’s a really great way to not only crack that shiny veneer of perfection most Sues possess, but to also add depth to your character. Build in Flaws and imperfections. Because no one is perfect and no one is so amazing that the people around them are simply left in awe all the time. Everyone has flaws, and those are what make us interesting; flaws are what also cause us to grow and change. However, beware. It’s really easy to trick yourself into thinking you’re giving your character flaws when you’re really not. (If you’re purposely trying to trick others into thinking you’ve given your character a flaw when you know full well you’ve copped out, then shame on you! *baps with a newspaper* )

A lot of Sues have superfluous flaws like being prone to ingrown toenails, or not being able to cook well, blinking too often, or being obsessed with socks. These are things that have no real impact on the character, and will likely never even be mentioned at all in the role play. Frequently, this is because people don’t want to give their character a real flaw, so they make up something completely irrelevant.

There are semi-flaws as well. These are flaws that CAN be flaws, but only when they are specifically roleplayed as such. Things like being shy, clumsy or naïve are semi flaws. Often having a “bad temper” is a semi- flaw as well. Unless these things actually impact your character in a negative way (such as making them look snobby or stupid), it’s not really a flaw. If you play these in a way that actually makes your character cute or witty, then you have just stepped into the most insidious of all traps. If your character has a bad temper, but you position it so their every outburst is perfectly justified, or for “righteous” reasons like defending the weak, then it’s no longer a flaw. A person who really has anger issues will get mad at people who don’t deserve it, naïve people will say stupid things, clumsy people will accidentally pants themselves in front of the person they like and be laughed at by everyone for years to come. Be sure you play these things as flaws instead of endearing qualities.

Finally, we have the obviously fake flaws. These flaws are, in fact, not flaws at all. Things that can fit in this category are things like being “too pretty” (seriously, if you try to say this about your character, you may need to just start over), depression, attracting stalkers (especially because they are too pretty), having cancer, being too cheerful, and so on.

The thing with a flaw is that these are things that will ANNOY the other characters, for the most part. These should be things that negatively impact your character in a real way, and that they NEED to overcome. Everyone has flaws—whether they are physical flaws like unsightly nose hair, or personality flaws like being bossy or arrogant, or just annoying traits and habits like nail biting, licking random objects, or finishing other people’s sentences.

Not everyone has deep dark, annoying flaws. But everyone does have REAL flaws that occasionally annoy the people around them. You should try to ensure your character has a few of these as well, to balance their virtues. If they have a million things they’re good at, and a million virtuous qualities, and their only flaw is that they’re clumsy or depressed, there’s a bit of lack of balance going on.

But I don’t….feel that way. D=

Okay, let’s say you’re describing your character and you say something like “Brightly McSparklepants was so pretty that all the girls are totally jealous of her. Conversely, all the boys think she is beautiful, and they want to protect her.” Or “Ebony McDarksoul is so strong and powerful that everyone is so afraid of him, that they never even stand up to him. They just cowered in fear and admiration.” This is a common thing “Suethors” (as a good friend of mine calls them) do.

First of all, if your character is so amazing that people only respond positively to them (or in the way you want them to), they are too perfect. Secondly, the problem is that when your character gets into the RP, inevitably, the other characters are not going to respond the way your profile claims people responds. Just because YOU think your character is cute and beautiful, doesn’t mean other people will. If you constantly have to make up imaginary people to admire your character because none of the other player characters are doing it, it’s a good clue that you may need to alter the profile and, possibly, your own mind set.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:44 am


StrawberryZ0mbie
In Closing…

Character building doesn’t have to be an agonizing process that takes ages and ages, so you can create that perfectly balanced character of awesomeness. All of these things are common sense and can be easily and quickly applied to any character for any setting, whether it’s a casual RP, or a more hardcore RP for seasoned RPers.

Everyone wants to play a character that other people like and admire. It feels good to have people say “Man, that is an awesome character!” But the problem is that if you try too hard to give your character all the awesome qualities, you’re going to end up with a character that is not awesome. It’s kind of a shame to put work into creating a character with all the amazing qualities you can think of, only to get them into the RP and have everyone ignore them, avoid them or hate them because they’re boring and hard to interact with. And Mary Sues, who are engineered to hog the spotlight, are boring and hard to interact with.

That’s why you want to try to avoid them if you can. Or at least tone them down a little. =3

Mary Sue resources:
Origin of Mary Sue

Types of Mary Sues

Common Sue Traits

Mary Sue Test


Mary Sue Test II

xLieselotte
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