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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:27 pm
Just a ton of "afterlife" questions I have. Do all non-believers go to hell? What about those that came before Christianity? What about the people who were never introduced to Christianity in their lives? Animals? Did Adam and Eve go to Heaven? How far can the title of "Christian" stretch before it breaks and you're considered not a Christian even if you claim belief? What about people forced into it? ((Like the Phelps children of Westboro Baptist Church))
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Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 5:05 pm
Fatestitcher Just a ton of "afterlife" questions I have. Do all non-believers go to hell? What about those that came before Christianity? What about the people who were never introduced to Christianity in their lives? Animals? Did Adam and Eve go to Heaven? How far can the title of "Christian" stretch before it breaks and you're considered not a Christian even if you claim belief? What about people forced into it? ((Like the Phelps children of Westboro Baptist Church)) No, because "Hell" as depicted doesn't exist as such, it isn't even mentioned in the Torah or Bible originally, as far as i know. "Hell" is a word originally from Nordic Myth, Hel, a place for virtually all dead that didn't die in battle. It is also the name of the Death-godess of nordic myth. So Hell, No. In revelations/apocalypse there is a mention of "The sea of fire" though. But no-one knows how that area affects those thrown into it. It might simply be total obliteration. Revelations also speaks of "The book of life". Not much there is said about wether non-belivers is not written into the book, or if they actually may be. Those that came before christianity would be the Jews, and they had a different agreement with God, mainly concerning this life ... but i might be wrong. Those untouched by "Christianity" .... I'd say they are pretty blessed to begin with ... Animals .... See above. Adam and Eve may even be a tall tale without much substance ... but if they did exist, see above. People forced into it deserve heaven. "Christianity" has these foundations: One God, That Jesus was the Son of God through immaculate conception, the Trinity Concept, The teachings of Jesus, That Jesus died and came back on the third day. Remove any at a total of three or more, and you are probably no longer an official christian. This is my estimation.
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:18 pm
Fatestitcher Just a ton of "afterlife" questions I have. Do all non-believers go to hell? What about those that came before Christianity? What about the people who were never introduced to Christianity in their lives? Animals? Did Adam and Eve go to Heaven? How far can the title of "Christian" stretch before it breaks and you're considered not a Christian even if you claim belief? What about people forced into it? ((Like the Phelps children of Westboro Baptist Church)) As far as I've been able to tell from the scriptures, yes. You have Jesus, or nothing. Whether you call it Hell, Gehenna, the lake of fire, you're outside of the presence of God which is the main concern. I'll go through whatever I need to so long as I don't get cast out. I doubt flames would burn so much as that. Those people would be subject to the the covenant established with the Jews and its terms and conditions. I would ask one of them about conversions before the destruction of the temple. That's not my area. The Bible does talk about different foreigners (to Israel) who were seen as righteous and God fearing. I don't know. That's up to God, but I do recommend Romans 2:13-16 which touches on the subject. Quote: 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus. I don't know. The Bible doesn't say, and I won't try to make a call on something God has been silent on. The Bible very rarely says beyond a shadow of a doubt whether someone did or did not make it onto Heaven. It's possible they did, and I think it's likely, but the Bible doesn't say. Not very far. The Bible is clear on what is and is not Christian. There's always been debate on different issues since the beginning. At least half of the New Testament wouldn't exist if there hadn't been questions and differences. However, the apostles and Jesus (see Revelations, first three chapters) were always trying to bring them back to what the church ought to be and behave and teach. So, while you might see differences in the brethren, they should always be trying to get to the church as it ought to be. Christianity doesn't expect you to be perfect, but it demands that you try. Claim to belief can be difficult. A migrant worker can come to the United States, claim citizenship, and even pay taxes. However, that doesn't make him a real American. Just because you say you are something doesn't mean that you are that thing. I could claim to you right now to be Buddhist or Muslim and even make a good show if I wanted, but that wouldn't make it true. Just the same, I could claim to be a Christian but totally reject the god of the Bible while even living some Biblical moral principles. However, that doesn't make me a Christian. That makes me a Christian like unbeliever. People forced into going to church and who pretend to be Christian aren't any more Christian than me dressing up in Islamic garb and passing out Qu'rans. My children will go to church with my wife and I, but that doesn't make them Christians. If they actually want to seek God and convert, that's between them and the Father. Of course I want them to be Christian and I can't say for sure whether I'd force them to if I could, but it's between them and God.
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Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2012 12:38 pm
What I get from that quote from Romans is that non-believers have a chance if they're good people, regardless of whether or not they accept the God. BTW, I'm Agnostic. I'm asking these questions just because They're things that have always bothered me about Christianity. Thank you both, for your answers.
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:13 pm
How do you know there is a heaven or hell, or even an afterlife?
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Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:35 pm
That's irrelevant to the question. I'm asking in a specific belief system what their beliefs are, not trying to discuss whether it exists. I personally do not believe it exists, but I want to know other opinions or beliefs on it regardless.
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:33 am
Fatestitcher Do all non-believers go to hell? I don't think so. Quote: What about those that came before Christianity? I don't think so. Quote: What about the people who were never introduced to Christianity in their lives? That's between them and the Christian God. Not sure. That's between them and God. Quote: Did Adam and Eve go to Heaven? They were archetypes, not actual people. Quote: How far can the title of "Christian" stretch before it breaks and you're considered not a Christian even if you claim belief? Depends on the sect. In the traditional sense (Catholic, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox), once you're baptized, your regarded as one by the Christian God for life, even if you become a heretic or an apostate. Quote: What about people forced into it? ((Like the Phelps children of Westboro Baptist Church)) What about them? If they don't want to be with the Christian God then then why would the Christian God force them to be with him?
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:39 am
rmcdra What about them? If they don't want to be with the Christian God then then why would the Christian God force them to be with him? Other people forced them, not god.
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:44 am
Artto rmcdra What about them? If they don't want to be with the Christian God then then why would the Christian God force them to be with him? Other people forced them, not god. I got that. Let me clarify. If other people forced them in and they don't want to be in, why would the Christian God force them to stay with him in the end if they don't want to?
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:09 am
rmcdra I got that. Let me clarify. If other people forced them in and they don't want to be in, why would the Christian God force them to stay with him in the end if they don't want to? I think the point was, does it count if you're forced into it? Are you saved if someone forces you into it?
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Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:21 am
Artto rmcdra I got that. Let me clarify. If other people forced them in and they don't want to be in, why would the Christian God force them to stay with him in the end if they don't want to? I think the point was, does it count if you're forced into it? Are you saved if someone forces you into it? I got that and I said it's between them and God. There's other conditionals like if someone was forced in and then along the way they decided they wanted to stay in the religion, if they were forced in and for some reason continued played along but never really wanted to stay. If anything this question is kinda irrelevant since it falls into the category of the first two questions. I guess what makes this question difficult for me to share my answer with is that I see salvation as a process that one can stumble on rather than a one-time deal.
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Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:14 am
There is no death, there is the force
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