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 Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:21 am
Okay. So this was one of the larger points of discussion in the main thread and it would be nice to bring it all in here. So the two broad things to consider while designing the starting tutorial will be:-
The lessons that will be taught: The bare essentials that the player needs to know to make it through zOMG! reasonably well.
The introduction of the zOMG! world: How the story will be revealed to the player. This detailing the crisis facing Gaia(the animated) and giving Frank a crucial role in this.
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Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:06 pm
lessons:
okay i am going to just ramble on for a bit....
basically a new user needs to be introduced to his/her ring and its function. so be told how to use the ring either by using the mouse or clicking on the number pad. during this, introduce the use of the target system. ` shortcut or mouse clicking on the "epic trashcan". (yes make new players defeat a trashcan because it is win!!!!) when ring is used once, then point out the rage meter.
as for gaining stamina, kneeling is optional. since stamina is gained while standing now, i think that hint should be saved for trixie, if anyone still listens to her hints or maybe it can be mentioned near the end of the tutorial.....
in the past was there an introduction to the overall ring tray? i feel like there was.... hmmm...... or did frank point that out? :/ i am just wondering if that needs to be explained or not. unless there is really a great guide somewhere that has pointed out every little detail so it is something new players can look into if they are still lost..
but yeah to get the whole jist, it would have to be what is the "bare bones" to have a a new player to understand.
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Time-traveling Marshmallow
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Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 6:28 pm
Lessons to be Taught:
-Stats: how affecting each ones provides certain bonuses. Also briefly explains range and knockback!
-Debuffs: how getting affected and being affect by them can spell the difference between victory and defeat.
-Ghi: Explaining how this is the leveling system based on ring usage.
-Dazing: You're not dead if you can crawl back.
-Crew: How to 'Recrewt' , setting roles for users, using group buffs, and promoting/kicking other players
Story:
Have a particularly bad-looking NPC turned away from the screen, the player walks up to them and talks to them. The NPC out of fear notices the player and from sheer paranoia- runs off, accidently dropping a solar-rays ring. The player wonders what was up with the guy and decides to follow him.
On the way there, the player runs into frank, who briefly explains how to use their solar rays ring and puts them through a training exercise with trash cans. When this is over, you ask about the shady looking character. Frank points you in the direction after completing the training exercise. He gives you a choice of wish, bandage, or diagnose.
You see the shady looking character again, this time running off screen. 2 Barton guards are on the screen he just ran off of, one dazed and the other tending to the guard. You talk to the non-dazed guard while the dazed one just spams the words "Defib plz?" every 5 minutes. The non dazed guard says the mysterious stranger attacked one of their troops and is running rampant through the sewers. They give you the task of taking him out, but because they don't want you to go solo, they give you a crew-training tutorial and a buff/debuff tutorial. After this, they give you a list of buffs to choose and take.
By now you should have a solar rays, a healing ring, and a buff ring.
The Barton guard will tell you which direction the shady character went. It's now up to you to start a crew and take them on.
Shady looking character reveals themselves to be a weirdly deformed animated creature.
This will lead to your first boss instance, a relatively easy one too. It will let new users use what they have learned to buff eachother, allow them to work cooperatively to heal eachother, and deal damage to the baddy. After defeating the boss, you go back to the Barton guard in the sewers, who gives you a defib ring and tells you to go to VG.
Now you should have 4 rings in your inventory: Solar rays, healing, buff, and defib. A nice, balanced, starting-out ringset.
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Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:57 am
I've already said so much on this subject previously, but I guess there's one more thing that we need to say.
This weekend, we happened to stumble upon s2b2, and he told us he didn't know how to make a recipe.
So yeah boys and girls, that's the absolute indication that we need that included somewhere in the tutorial. Or later in the game at least.
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:15 am
This! I think the fundamental problem with awarding players the gunz ring is it gives them the notion that they're playing a third person shooter game and so they wrongly identify the rings as guns and the stamina for ammo. So yeah, these all need to be pointed out. Yes, I've seen the video and it does appear there is a popup image of the tutorial and how to equip and use rings.
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:18 am
DrQuint I've already said so much on this subject previously, but I guess there's one more thing that we need to say. This weekend, we happened to stumble upon s2b2, and he told us he didn't know how to make a recipe. So yeah boys and girls, that's the absolute indication that we need that included somewhere in the tutorial. Or later in the game at least. I've known someone who's been playing zOMG! for years and only recently found out about the recipes. Unfortunately since it's not gameplay related, perhaps it could be pushed to one of the loading screens?
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:36 am
Pirate Captain Sushi Lessons to be Taught:
-Stats: how affecting each ones provides certain bonuses. Also briefly explains range and knockback!
-Debuffs: how getting affected and being affect by them can spell the difference between victory and defeat.
-Ghi: Explaining how this is the leveling system based on ring usage.
-Dazing: You're not dead if you can crawl back.
-Crew: How to 'Recrewt' , setting roles for users, using group buffs, and promoting/kicking other players
Story: Eeeyeah... thing is we want the tutorial to be as brief as possible so info on stats, debuffs and ghi could be better explained later on. I think we wanna keep the tutorial to just explaining rings and stamina for the most part. Dazing on the other hand could use some mentioning. But yeah, assuming a buff ring will be awarded with the new tutorial, I think the importance of crewing should be touched upon. But expecting the new player to find people to form one for the boss is perhaps a little unreasonable. Perhaps a simulated fight against an animated with some of the NPCs(as mentioned in the other thread) as crew members to display the advantages of healing, buffing and other coordinated activities would be much nicer. Lovely story though. biggrin A good story would completely hide the fact the player is going through a tutorial.
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Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 10:42 am
Let's also talk abotu setting guys! Do you think the new tutorial could be set on the same two screens as the current one or do we want to return to the train? Remember that it needs to be short.
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Time-traveling Marshmallow
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Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 12:39 pm
Silk Kanishk Let's also talk abotu setting guys! Do you think the new tutorial could be set on the same two screens as the current one or do we want to return to the train? Remember that it needs to be short. to be honest, i hate the new one. but i hate it because leon is such a noob. if it was a different character you have to save then sure it would be fine. but i also am not into users starting at the village greens. but i am bias because i started out in the sewers and i loved the idea you have to work from the ground up so to say. some kind of transportation should still be key on how you first arrive within zomg. train/subway is the most logical. just the new version, the chest opening and how little information there is, it defeats its purpose. so for setting, yeah i would want users to be stuck in the sewers.... xd
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:45 am
scullylam so for setting, yeah i would want users to be stuck in the sewers.... xd Well, that would certainly solve the problem of introducing Hank and the problem besetting the world of Gaia. But that brings us back to the problem of what to do with the sewers. We can't have people suffer through the old tutorial. Unless:- A) We expand on the tutorial into the sewers but introduce story type elements with decent rewards for accomplishing them similar to what Sushi baby just mentioned to keep the players interest as they play and learn. B) Keep the current tutorial in the sewers but make it optional, perhaps only having the very basic gameplay elements explained and the world of gaia introduced by hank and the train operator while providing another door to the town above.
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Time-traveling Marshmallow
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Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:04 am
Silk Kanishk scullylam so for setting, yeah i would want users to be stuck in the sewers.... xd Well, that would certainly solve the problem of introducing Hank and the problem besetting the world of Gaia. But that brings us back to the problem of what to do with the sewers. We can't have people suffer through the old tutorial. Unless:- A) We expand on the tutorial into the sewers but introduce story type elements with decent rewards for accomplishing them similar to what Sushi baby just mentioned to keep the players interest as they play and learn. B) Keep the current tutorial in the sewers but make it optional, perhaps only having the very basic gameplay elements explained and the world of gaia introduced by hank and the train operator while providing another door to the town above. yeah that is true. sweatdrop like the situation we know in zomg is that some kind of "evil" has overcome the land. things are becoming alive and players must help to stop it. at the same time, that option for hints and tutorial when you do venture in the sewers, that needs to be either moved to the null for trixie or tied in to the options somewhere. (just came to mind since everytime you go to sewers it asks about it. )
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Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:12 pm
I think Leon should send us to the sewers for a quest, so we can learn the gameplay some more. It does make sense for us to travel on a train or subway first because at the beginning of the new one it is like what is this train doing here?
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Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:45 pm
Silk Kanishk Remember that it needs to be short.
I believe the notion that it needs to be short is misleading - what it needs is to be engaging enough to hold the player's attention over the course the tutorial's duration. Whether that's two minutes or two hours, if players legitimately want to keep playing, the length is irrelevant. And I'll say this: if zOMG! can't develop enough engaging gameplay to fill a tutorial longer than 30 seconds, this game is dead in the water. stressed
The problem with "short" is that the amount of information we need to share isn't variable - and we need time to cover that information. Aside from that, we need time to expose storyline, and to let the player experience gameplay. Attempting to limit ourselves by time means that we now have all of our most important considerations competing for the same space - and we're forced to leave out important information, or interesting experiences (or both, in the case of the current tutorial). Neither of those are good options.
Developing a tutorial is probably the most difficult and certainly one of the most important parts of a game. Even apart from all of the important gameplay information it needs to communicate, it sets the tone for the rest of the game. It's what convinces players that they want to keep playing. It's what establishes your players expectations, attachment, and investment in the game and its story. It is the appetiser to the meal that is your game; trying to keep a tutorial 'short' is like trying to serve fewer appetisers, so that your guests don't have to wait for the main course. Rather, you should be serving the best appetisers you can, letting your guests enjoy them, and making them want more. That's the tutorial's job, after all - to ease players in, and make them want more of zOMG!.
----
For a setting, I'm honestly not personally attached to either the Village Greens, or the sewers. I like the notion of the train or subway, as it serves to explain how the player got into the game - but the actual areas of the sewers and the pre-Greens were rather forgettable, in my opinion. Something I'd personally like to see as a setting (which I believe I've posed before) is utilising the train to visit multiple locations, each a small mini-area based on one of zOMG!'s current areas. They'd be simple, and can easily re-use existing assets - but the use of many different areas keeps players from growing bored with the scenery, uses the visual impressiveness of zOMG! to the fullest (the beautiful scenery is one of the game's biggest draws), and gives players something to look forward to when they realise that each of those areas represents areas they will visit in the future (as well as a little nostalgia when they finally get there). Given that you'll need to end up near Barton, I'd probably have the players start off in the Otami-based mini-area, and work their way in reverse level order (Otami, Gold Beach, Old Aqueduct, Bass'ken Lake, Zen Gardens, DMP (maybe), Bill's Ranch, the Village Greens, and finally the Sewers).
As Quint brought up elsewhere, I think it's important that someone (ideally Frank) 'save' the player from the Animated, to start. Players need to understand that these things are a menace, and that they're dangerous. They need to establish trust with characters like Frank, and heroics are a good way to accomplish that. Perhaps most importantly, they need to understand that - around here, at least - we work together to fight these things; that it's dangerous to go alone.
So, you'd start with Frank rescuing you from an attacking Animated in pseudo-Otami (ideally via Manga-style cutscene - it would communicate the encounter much better, I suspect), and taking you over to the train. On the train, he would explain what that thing was, how we fight them, and grant you your first ring. Once you're through those portions, the train stops at its next destination - the Gold Beach mini-area.
For each of the following mini-areas, Frank would require the player to stay close to him, while he goes out to complete some arbitrary objective (finding something, or reaching a checkpoint - maybe some of each, and I'm sure one of you creative minds can find a plot-relevant excuse for it), with each area adding new gameplay considerations. At two points (probably the Old Aqueduct mini-area and the Zen Gardens one, just judging by the order), you would again be granted new rings - first a Healing ring (and from that point on, you're expected to heal Frank when his Health gets low), and later a buff (at which point Frank expects you to keep him buffed). On the train ride between areas, Frank can help players to understand the mechanics of the game (Rage, G'hi, etc.) as well as filling the players in on important storyline points.
The final area would culminate in a mini-boss, and requires you to keep Frank healed and buffed to defeat it. Frank carries Defibrillate, so even if your character winds up dazed, he should be able to 'reset' it so that you can try again. Since this 'boss' battle will wind up being either in the Village Greens or the Sewers, it would be potentially reasonable to have one of the Barton Regulars (old Dani, perhaps?) show up and contribute as well - which establishes them as a reliable group, and not the wusses that Leon gets pegged as in the current tutorial. While your character is distracted talking to them, Frank would have a chance to slink off into obscurity again.
----
I got pulled away for a bit, so if there are any incomplete thoughts or missed explanations, I apologise. Do feel free to ask if there's anything I was unclear about, as I'm sure I've got more comments that were lost along the way... sweatdrop
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:48 am
Scobre I think Leon should send us to the sewers for a quest, so we can learn the gameplay some more. It does make sense for us to travel on a train or subway first because at the beginning of the new one it is like what is this train doing here? I think so too. Or at least one of the guards in the towns should do the same. But If you want an in-train scene and if Leon is the one sending you to the sewers, then we might need whole new art for the overhead train scene. xp
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 11:07 am
Red Kutai Silk Kanishk Remember that it needs to be short.
I believe the notion that it needs to be short is misleading - what it needs is to be engaging enough to hold the player's attention over the course the tutorial's duration. Whether that's two minutes or two hours, if players legitimately want to keep playing, the length is irrelevant. And I'll say this: if zOMG! can't develop enough engaging gameplay to fill a tutorial longer than 30 seconds, this game is dead in the water. stressed
I agree. My later posts in the thread actually agreed with a lenghty but engaging tutorial actually preferable to any of the other alternatives, but the reason why I keep stressing on length is because:- 1) The dev team isn't what it once used to be. So i'm hoping to make do with what we have when suggesting a new tutorial. 2) Even if they can pull it off, I wonder how committed they are to bringing a new tutorial. So far, my impressions been that there is a greater focus on bringing out new powerups, rings, buddies etc. over fixing existing content. The Tutorial might only be a side-consideration so given that, I'm trying to minimize the effort that would be required to create a new one. But I shouldn't let my assumptions get in the way. I'll try and prod s2 the next time we meet to find out just how much love the tutorial will be receiving when it's under way. And thanks for the suggestion for the setting. At first, I was put off by the idea of revealing all the locations seeing them as spoilers rather than appetizers, But for the sake of the tutorial, I can see it actually helping. As for stopping at each station, i can see that becoming rather tiring. Even right from Scobre's post, I was hoping for something more along the lines of moving between compartments (with each compartment teaching you some basic gameplay element) and a repeating background as the train passes through each area. To add some variety, the train could stop at certain stations. But yes, this is regardless a much more entertaining way of introducing the tutorial to the player and I'm all for it. 3nodding My idea involved cramming all the tutorial into the first two screens of the current tutorial. sweatdrop
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