Dealing with Christian Privilege

[X-Yami-no-Ko-X]

Esiris

X-Yami-no-Ko-X

Just thinking about it, but ask them to point out in the Bible where it says that you are a sin.
I have a friend that says that the only sin committed it when a person breaks The Ten Commandments.

And I'm pretty sure that verse does still apply to what they're doing to you no matter what they say.

That doesn't really deal with their privilege though. sweatdrop

My thought was when they can't get the answer it would shut them up. I know it works with a couple other things Christians say.  

[Esiris]

X-Yami-no-Ko-X

My thought was when they can't get the answer it would shut them up. I know it works with a couple other things Christians say.

It doesn't really work that well- and I don't want to trade Bible verses, that just feeds them.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Very sad, especially when the privilege is so hypocritical.
Almost like they forget that Christianity was, for several centuries, a rather disenfranchised religion. Pity.
Does your school have any clauses against publicly sponsored religious organizations? Does the group have a clause enshrining a single religion or religion family as part of it's charter? There may be bureaucratic ways to handle the matter.

On a personal level, I tend to privately rage while patting myself on the back for my own scholarship and pity how those are really sorta fail Xians (you know, they take the Christ out of Christianity). It's really sorta childish, but it makes me feel better.
In short, while you may be able to reach some of them, for others, even absent religious privilege, they will find something else to be entitled about. Disregard these people and give them no purchase on your own personal, internal, well being.  

[Neotepid]

One thing I like doing is telling people about how the Vatican tampered with the book and replaced the word Unicorn with oxen.

If they don't believe you, then laugh, and go on to the next thing about the bible that was altered. For example, "What race is Jesus?" "He's white." "Wrong. He's Middle Eastern. He was born in Jerusalem, so he is not white by any means."

"Have you heard of Lillith? No? Why, she was part of the bible. She's the first woman on Earth." "Nuh uh. It's Eve." "Well, now it's Eve, because they got rid of Lillith because it sent out the wrong message to women. And we want every to feel safe under the Christian God."

Or just come up with random facts that you could use against them. If they rant, walk off and laugh. If they're bewildered and think, then either stack on the knowledge or give them some evidence.  

[Eltanin Sadachbia]

Allot of times, people of any majority, tend to forget that there are those who do not fall under that majority in their immediate sphere. Privilege and elitism isn't always because people want to feel privileged or elite, but sometimes it is just the manifestation of ignorance, or a facade for fear of what is not understood.

All communities tend to forget that there are people who do not believe the way that the majority of the community does, and so privilege appears, because everyone assumes that everyone is on the same page. When it is learned that everyone is not on the same page, fear is the general response.

Sometimes the majority realizes there are those who are different, but mostly, people just feel that the majority still appreciates practicing the traditions held by the majority.... Is it really such a bad thing, though? As long as the majority does not stop the minority from practicing their traditions, does it matter?

Other communities hold their own cultural and religious privilege. I have been to a Muslim community in which I had to keep my head covered, and everyone stopped what they were doing at a certain time everyday to pray. It was automatically expected of me, until my friend explained I did not believe as they did... there were still those that acted suspicious, although I tried to be respectful of their practices.

My husband is neo-pagan, and I have several friends who are pagan and neo-pagan. I will go shopping with them to the different pagan stores and such, and normally it is automatically assumed that I am also pagan. It doesn't bother me because I am in a place that is majority pagan.

When I am in places in which I become a minority, I realize that things aren't going to be done exactly the way I would do them. I don't think that I am being disrespected because people automatically assume I think, feel, and/or believe like they do. I do everything within my power to respect them, even if I cannot participate in what they do, and I wouldn't expect them to participate in the traditions I hold if they came to a place where the majority believed as I did...

Now, that all being said... I am Christian... I do belong to the the Religious tradition of the majority of the US, although I am considered a heretic by the majority of those who claim Christianity as their religion (which earns me a worse rep than anyone of any other faith or absence thereof by far)...

I see the problems with Christianity, and Christian privilege, yet I don't really think it is Christian privilege, it is just part of the US culture... Everyone feels they must be catered to, but so many want to place themselves above others. It's a paradox that a religion which holds "others before self" should have to learn such a teaching from the religions that it demonizes.

Instead of requesting that Christian activities get shut down, ask that your beliefs get recognized. Some times, if you show a community you don't want to cramp their style, they will be more willing to accept you (or at least overlook you)... You will probably be turned down, but then you should gather those of like mind and sympathies and form your own group. The fact that you approached your leaders will be sure to turn eyes to you and your cause, and they will watch you grow. As you do, if you demonstrate the love and compassion that they so easily forgot, you will prove that there is just as much to you as there is to them.
 

[Kuroiban]

X-Yami-no-Ko-X

My thought was when they can't get the answer it would shut them up. I know it works with a couple other things Christians say.

Narrow minded people usually aren't that worried about what the doctrine of their religion says....and they'll just talk over you. Look at a fox news interview for an example of this; facts are ignored if they aren't the facts that want to hear.

Not EVERYONE is like this, but it's certainly a tactic I see often. Sad but true. sad

Neotepid

If they don't believe you, then laugh, and go on to the next thing about the bible that was altered. For example, "What race is Jesus?" "He's white." "Wrong. He's Middle Eastern. He was born in Jerusalem, so he is not white by any means."

"Jesus was a white man from Oxford!" Lol...sorry. Brought back memories of Eddie Izzard routines.

This can sometimes work, because you're making it work by pushing buttons..just making people uncomfortable and irritated, without questioning why it makes them feel that way. It can easily turn into trolling, and that's nothing we should be aspiring to, yknow?

Eltanin Sadachbia

Other communities hold their own cultural and religious privilege. I have been to a Muslim community in which I had to keep my head covered, and everyone stopped what they were doing at a certain time everyday to pray. It was automatically expected of me, until my friend explained I did not believe as they did... there were still those that acted suspicious, although I tried to be respectful of their practices

My husband is neo-pagan, and I have several friends who are pagan and neo-pagan. I will go shopping with them to the different pagan stores and such, and normally it is automatically assumed that I am also pagan. It doesn't bother me because I am in a place that is majority pagan.
.

What you are providing of as an example isn't wrong per say, but it doesn't match the situation being spoken of. Esiris's first example is suggesting a priest of a non-Christian faith be brought for to talk about religious diversity being shouted down isn't a passive thing; it's active.

Someone's assumption that you're pagan in a particular shop is a passive thing. Is it right...eh...it could be debatable. However, it's essentially harmless so long as tolerance and basic etiquette are shown if the misconception is corrected.. People only willing to listen to someone of their faith talk about other faiths?

That's...not the same thing. I understand the parallel you're trying to be make, but the passivity of the one situation versus the activity of the other makes it fall flat to me.

People of a majority forgetting minorities exist is shameful, but can be corrected through proper action and responsibility. It's something we are all guilty of in one way or another, and the actual test is behaving in a better way in the future. People of a majority wanting to act as if minorities don't exist or only exist in a manner that is convenient to their world view? That's just hubris and bigotry, and that what seems like is going on in Esiris's situation  

[Neotepid]

Kuroiban

Good point. I mean, sure, I don't believe everything in the bible, but if an atheist comes in and just starts saying that everything is wrong, you try to explain, and he won't believe, b*****d has a religion. The point of him even questioning something his thoughts will never change about or even explore is obnoxious.

(X(D) But that whole race thing does make for a good comeback.  

[Kuroiban]

Neotepid

(X(D) But that whole race thing does make for a good comeback.

I'm strongly of the opinion if you're think of it as a "comeback", there is a good chance you're doing it wrong.

It's not a contest. It's a display of personal philosophies and understanding. It's not a matter of leaving them speechless and getting them to walk off...it's a matter of getting them to listen.

Which is harder...but it's also worth it. wink  

[Esiris]

Eltanin Sadachbia

I see the problems with Christianity, and Christian privilege, yet I don't really think it is Christian privilege, it is just part of the US culture...

It feels like when people equate the problems they see with the overall culture- that's kind of the very heart of privilege. cat_sweatdrop

Quote:

Instead of requesting that Christian activities get shut down, ask that your beliefs get recognized.

I didn't ask for Christian activities to be shut down. We're holding a "Diversity Panel"- since we're drawing minority groups to talk about their experiences, and Christians aren't a Minority Group, having them represent "diversity in religion" doesn't make sense.

To be honest- I think the whole post really smacked of Christian Privilege- because instead of standing up for a minority's right to represent themselves, it equated wanting representation with "shutting down Christian Activities", and it makes it sound like we're "cramping their style" by just existing- when we're the ones not being represented as part of the community because us being here might offend people. And then the wording elevated being overlooked as a good thing when the whole point of the Diversity Panel is to bring community together and stop minorities from being overlooked. cat_confused

I feel like that kind of approach is really at the heart of the fringe of religious discrimination, and it reminds me a lot of when King wrote the Letters from Birmingham Jail.  

[Neotepid]

Kuroiban

Neotepid

(X(D) But that whole race thing does make for a good comeback.

I'm strongly of the opinion if you're think of it as a "comeback", there is a good chance you're doing it wrong.

It's not a contest. It's a display of personal philosophies and understanding. It's not a matter of leaving them speechless and getting them to walk off...it's a matter of getting them to listen.

Which is harder...but it's also worth it. wink

Which is why, if they don't believe me the first time, I'll just talk about it loosely as if it's just an everyday thing around them. Sooner or later I either hit on something that they'd be interested in, or I just so happen to contradict them which will give me some time to elaborate. Either way it goes, a comeback for me isn't really "Feel stupid" as it is, "Think about what you're saying". That's why if I actually say something about somebody, another would say "You only laughed cause it's lame."

Yeah, and I said it not to get you to shut up. Gawd, I hate it when people think that a rebuttle is just a "Got'cha" thing.  

[Kuroiban]

Neotepid

Yeah, and I said it not to get you to shut up. Gawd, I hate it when people think that a rebuttle is just a "Got'cha" thing.

LoL...didn't interpret your statement as an attempt to get me to shut up; many have tried to achieve such a thing. All but one has failed....and she did it by purchasing cookware.

It's a long story... sweatdrop

I was more talking about the style you were outlining as being somewhat counter-productive. At least...counter productive to my perspective.  

[Neotepid]

Kuroiban

Neotepid

Yeah, and I said it not to get you to shut up. Gawd, I hate it when people think that a rebuttle is just a "Got'cha" thing.

LoL...didn't interpret your statement as an attempt to get me to shut up; many have tried to achieve such a thing. All but one has failed....and she did it by purchasing cookware.

It's a long story... sweatdrop

I was more talking about the style you were outlining as being somewhat counter-productive. At least...counter productive to my perspective.

It is. It's pretty much how you say it. When it comes to communication, people only get 7% of the emotions that you're using through your words. 21% Is how you say it. 72$ is pretty much body gestures. Which means, you can say, "I love you very much", but if you give a sadistic smile and punching the palm of your hand with your fist, I'm pretty sure they won't get the message.