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 Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:30 am
Post your general feelings about why you like or don't like powerups. Please keep the discussion fairly light and not too angry, otherwise I will remove this post.
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:35 pm
Snagged from my conversation with Pan in a thread over at z!F, the conversation included the notion that there should be gold-cost power-ups, reasons why, and a variety of other updates that could be tossed together to help zOMG, but for now, I leave you with these:
- Angelic Aid - A 20 minute boost to Health and Stamina regen, equal to using RR1 Healing Halo and Divinity, but stacks with Healing Halo and Divinity. (gold version gives 1/3 the boost)
- Guardian's Defense - An extra 20 minute, 25% to 30% armor bonus, stacks with all existing armors. (gold version gives 10% armor bonus)
- Ghi Overload - (The only one I'm not sure if your code would permit) Gives a 25% to 30% higher chance to trigger a critical hit with every attack for 20 minutes. (gold version could be 10%)
Edit: The extended notion of gold-cost powerups was generally my suggestion that most power-ups could have a gold-version at about 1/3 the power of the GC version, so players would be more willing to "try out" power-ups without spending GC on them. And once they feel the value of a weaker powerup, they would be more eager to buy a GC one. Costs could be easily scaled based on current power-up costs on the marketplace. (Some powerups, like Revive, would not work in this way, but that's fine too.)
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:24 pm
Kayi Laa Scobre Um who are you and you were not at the meat? heh, miscommunication, Silky invited me to the meet, and I missed it, I told him about it at the time, and he never passed along the names of the others he invited. I was one of those couple people he mentioned he invited but missed the meet. I've been offering a variety of suggestions on how zOMG can cater to higher end players, while still earning more GC (or advertising money) for a while now, which is why he wanted to bring me in on it. I'm not totally sure, but I think part of my conversation with Pan on the issue is a bit of what helped spark off the meet, and the guild, since I specifically began to mention power-ups that could be geared towards new areas of zOMG and high end play. It could just be coincidence, but shortly after that conversation over in z!F is when I got the PM for the meet, and though it was too short notice for me to attend, I'd hoped my ideas would have been shared. Since they weren't, I'm reposting them to here. Hmmm, perhaps you're right. I bet that argument didn't go unheard of over at HQ. They do have cubicles near each other on the staff, so... Could be coincidence as well. As I noted elsewhere, coming from Red's inquiry, I think s2 is just overexcited with DMS and wants to aid players the best he can... for a price. Of course, that is a good sign of the place's difficulty if I'm right... I think... Oh, a comment to the thread that has nothing to do with the actual ideas. Actually, I think I'll convey it better by involving them. The essence of the comment, to Scobre, would be: "Aren't you tired of goddamned powerups already? I am! So the next idea better be ******** brilliant and unique." Which then goes on to the powerups ideas you brought Kayi. They actually... suck. Nah, they don't really suck, they might rank with the ones the meet brought yesterday, on potentially balancebreaking. it's just "not enough" right now. We already seem to have Health, Stamina and Rage boosts on conceptual stage. Why do we need to break the game MORE? The powerups themselves aside though, the gold/cash power up idea is a different matter worth discussing. I'm not quite certain that it would work the way you say they do. Several users would probably find that the 1/3 effect is strong enough. I would, for example. I'm used to not using Powerups and succeding easily. And I HAVE powerups, and could get several more if I wanted/needed, so the price or gaia cash isn't the point the fact I don't need them is. Having the gold option would likely make me take a lot longer to consider the cash route when facing necessity. And it'd be a far larger threshold of difficulty devs would need to surpass to get me as a consumer.
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:29 pm
I remember Pan talking about using Gold to buy power ups. Would make good use of the Deluxe (GC version) and Regular (GG version) Angelic Aid: Like it, can never have to much HP and Stam regen. Guardian Defense: Would be best for Solo players cause personally I think once you have all the buffs at r4 your defense is already pretty good (unless you're facing enemies at a CL 2.0+ higher then your own). I just think adding even more would make you to 'god like'. Ghi Overload: I think its possible Codewise, I mean, doesn't Keen Aye increase the Crit rate? If I recall the Accuracy has something to do with it, don't quote me on that though, been awhile since I did research on that stuff. Overall pretty neat ideas. smile
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:32 pm
Lei_Trigar I remember Pan talking about using Gold to buy power ups. Would make good use of the Deluxe (GC version) and Regular (GG version) Lolno! No one would EVER buy power ups then. They're functionally the same, only have more uses.
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:34 pm
DrQuint Hmmm, perhaps you're right. I bet that argument didn't go unheard of over at HQ. They do have cubicles near each other on the staff, so... Could be coincidence as well. As I noted elsewhere, coming from Red's inquiry, I think s2 is just overexcited with DMS and wants to aid players the best he can... for a price. Of course, that is a good sign of the place's difficulty if I'm right... I think... Oh, a comment to the thread that has nothing to do with the actual ideas. Actually, I think I'll convey it better by involving them. The essence of the comment, to Scobre, would be: "Aren't you tired of goddamned powerups already? I am! So the next idea better be ******** brilliant and unique." Which then goes on to the powerups ideas you brought Kayi. They actually... suck. Nah, they don't really suck, they might rank with the ones the meet brought yesterday, on potentially balancebreaking. it's just "not enough" right now. We already seem to have Health, Stamina and Rage boosts on conceptual stage. Why do we need to break the game MORE? The powerups themselves aside though, the gold/cash power up idea is a different matter worth discussing. I'm not quite certain that it would work the way you say they do. Several users would probably find that the 1/3 effect is strong enough. I would, for example. I'm used to not using Powerups and succeding easily. And I HAVE powerups, and could get several more if I wanted/needed, so the price or gaia cash isn't the point the fact I don't need them is. Having the gold option would likely make me take a lot longer to consider the cash route. The powerups themselves were slightly lacking in some ways, yes. However, none of them are particularly "game breaking". The crit effect's end result is less damage boost than the 50% from Ghi-amp, and the armor effect is only slightly higher than having the Pirate Set added to the regular armor list. They were small boosts that could add to existing bonuses for high end instances. The most gamebreaking one I can think of is the free "bonus divinity", which can easily be rescaled, but my idea behind it is that players like lasting powerups, something you use and see in your power-up tray. So while a supercharger is nice, I'd be more inclined to use a boost that gives me lasting stamina buff, even if a very small one. The shift to having gold-costing powerups was the stronger aspect as both a gold sink for zOMG, and a way to introduce players to powerups. I especially had in mind that while their strength would be about 1/3 their GC counterparts, their cost (relative to the marketplace price) could be roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of their GC counterparts. This way gold spending players will really exhaust their reserves faster, and those who're seeking better powerups are going to be more inclined to buy them for GC, or to simply purchase them off the marketplace. These were also, of course, only a lower concern to the rest of my rambling, but that would be best for another time. I just felt like putting it out here since I did miss the meet. (also it was a good way of showing my face... even if it did get me kicked temporarily x-x; Thank Kit for me, I'd do it myself but she has me on ignore.)
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:35 pm
DrQuint Lei_Trigar I remember Pan talking about using Gold to buy power ups. Would make good use of the Deluxe (GC version) and Regular (GG version) Lolno! No one would EVER buy power ups then. They're functionally the same, only have more uses. i guess... unless you make the gold version like 80% less efficient/weaker.. and i didn't really mean the more usage part XP just the better product being the Cash version. sorry about that. sweatdrop
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:45 pm
Kayi Laa DrQuint Hmmm, perhaps you're right. I bet that argument didn't go unheard of over at HQ. They do have cubicles near each other on the staff, so... Could be coincidence as well. As I noted elsewhere, coming from Red's inquiry, I think s2 is just overexcited with DMS and wants to aid players the best he can... for a price. Of course, that is a good sign of the place's difficulty if I'm right... I think... Oh, a comment to the thread that has nothing to do with the actual ideas. Actually, I think I'll convey it better by involving them. The essence of the comment, to Scobre, would be: "Aren't you tired of goddamned powerups already? I am! So the next idea better be ******** brilliant and unique." Which then goes on to the powerups ideas you brought Kayi. They actually... suck. Nah, they don't really suck, they might rank with the ones the meet brought yesterday, on potentially balancebreaking. it's just "not enough" right now. We already seem to have Health, Stamina and Rage boosts on conceptual stage. Why do we need to break the game MORE? The powerups themselves aside though, the gold/cash power up idea is a different matter worth discussing. I'm not quite certain that it would work the way you say they do. Several users would probably find that the 1/3 effect is strong enough. I would, for example. I'm used to not using Powerups and succeding easily. And I HAVE powerups, and could get several more if I wanted/needed, so the price or gaia cash isn't the point the fact I don't need them is. Having the gold option would likely make me take a lot longer to consider the cash route. The powerups themselves were slightly lacking in some ways, yes. However, none of them are particularly "game breaking". The crit effect's end result is less damage boost than the 50% from Ghi-amp, and the armor effect is only slightly higher than having the Pirate Set added to the regular armor list. They were small boosts that could add to existing bonuses for high end instances. The most gamebreaking one I can think of is the free "bonus divinity", which can easily be rescaled, but my idea behind it is that players like lasting powerups, something you use and see in your power-up tray. So while a supercharger is nice, I'd be more inclined to use a boost that gives me lasting stamina buff, even if a very small one. The shift to having gold-costing powerups was the stronger aspect as both a gold sink for zOMG, and a way to introduce players to powerups. I especially had in mind that while their strength would be about 1/3 their GC counterparts, their cost (relative to the marketplace price) could be roughly 1/2 to 2/3 of their GC counterparts. This way gold spending players will really exhaust their reserves faster, and those who're seeking better powerups are going to be more inclined to buy them for GC, or to simply purchase them off the marketplace. These were also, of course, only a lower concern to the rest of my rambling, but that would be best for another time. I just felt like putting it out here since I did miss the meet. (also it was a good way of showing my face... even if it did get me kicked temporarily x-x; Thank Kit for me, I'd do it myself but she has me on ignore.) When I consider a powerup, I consider them on top of everything else already there. Sure the critical is less than a Ghi Amp, but who in their right mind wouldn't just use both if capable and the need REALLY arises? The amount of stack is what worries me the most, because the game was inconsiderably broken at one point because of that effect: Ninja Set's Dodge was so high, a Cl 3 could live in Gold Beach. Stack enough bonuses and we become worse than tumors. This is also why I'm not happy with several of the powerups from the meeting, but I actually took them in because I'm still receptive if it's stuff that makes sense allowing cash users to get and we don't have yet. And that's what kills your ideas: Timing. Which btw, I didn't mention, but the critical hits powerup was the one I felt the most okay with. 'll have to agree to disagree. The gold sink aspect is true there, but I still feel uninclined to disbelieve that this wouldn't actually hurt GC sales and the game balance more than the good it would do.
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:40 pm
Lei_Trigar i guess... unless you make the gold version like 80% less efficient/weaker.. and i didn't really mean the more usage part XP just the better product being the Cash version. sorry about that. sweatdrop 80% would be way, way off. No one would use GC things if you could get 80% of the same powerup for gold. This is why I said 1/3 the power in my suggestions. At 1/3 the power, it's strong enough that you notice, and feel, the difference to gameplay, so people want to start burning gold on the powerups, but at the same time, they actually see the sharp difference in power from gold to GC. Perhaps 1/3 is too much of a gap. 50% may be a better choice. But too narrow a gap would render GC items obsolete. DrQuint When I consider a powerup, I consider them on top of everything else already there. Sure the critical is less than a Ghi Amp, but who in their right mind wouldn't just use both if capable and the need REALLY arises? The amount of stack is what worries me the most, because the game was inconsiderably broken at one point because of that effect: Ninja Set's Dodge was so high, a Cl 3 could live in Gold Beach. Stack enough bonuses and we become worse than tumors. This is also why I'm not happy with several of the powerups from the meeting, but I actually took them in because I'm still receptive if it's stuff that makes sense allowing cash users to get and we don't have yet. And that's what kills your ideas: Timing. Which btw, I didn't mention, but the critical hits powerup was the one I felt the most okay with. 'll have to agree to disagree. The gold sink aspect is true there, but I still feel uninclined to disbelieve that this wouldn't actually hurt GC sales and the game balance more than the good it would do. As cited above, power will need to scale appropriately. With each thing, there is room for balancing and scaling, but here's a few aspects of each that I think would need to be considered while each is being balanced. But especially, there must be a SHARP gap in power to really make players see that GC items are worthwhile. Additionally, not everything needs to have a gold counterpart. Revives don't need one, superchargers don't need one. But releasing some powerups that DO have a gold option, encourages players to toy with them. I guess what I'm suggesting is to release SOME powerups with a gold option, but clearly, NOT ALL powerups. First, the larger problem with Ghi Amp + Critical is that Ghi Amps are overpowered already. 50% more damage is a bit insane. Stats to consider: Default damage = 100% DPS Ghi Amp = 150% DPS 30% Crit Bonus (crits doing double damage) = 130% DPS (less normal crits you score which lower the average DPS)* Ghi Amp + 30% Crit = 195% DPS * - Assuming 10% normal crit rate, your character is actually doing 110% of their non-crit DPS, with a +30% bonus, they will be doing 140% of non-crit DPS, or 140 / 110, aka 127.3% (rounded). Meaning a crit bonus' DPS is slightly smaller than shown, based on the base crit rate.There was a reason I suggested crits for a damage boost to sell. Crits look big and shiny, and it's impressive to watch giant numbers flash around at huge values. But in actual practice, crits give less DPS boost than a flat damage bonus. As for armor, the way armor stacks makes another 25% bonus negligible. Armor is not additive in a way that the closer you get to 100%, the more invulnerable you are. It's multiplied out per layer. Just like a crew can push through SS/EB when they're down a player and his buffs, this armor buff won't be critical to continuing a fight, and everyone will be able to beat all instances without it. But for players who bring it, it will have a felt impact. The last one is the only one I really question, since an extra 2.0 stam regen is a massive amount. Too low, and players won't really desire it, too high and it may unbalance the system. Relatively though, 6 players using powerups constantly through a 1 hour instance is kinda what we're aiming at. Again, most of these may need subtle rescaling, but I believe they are a better choice to give varied and sought after powerups, than releasing an "uber-revive" that doubles as a multi-revive and supercharger in one.
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:03 pm
DrQuint Since I herpa derped before... sticking this where the idea kinda belongs: DrQuint Since we're going down the path of messing with animation effects that alter the players (the resizers) why not think of MORE powerups like those?
Clone army:
I had the perfect picture for this:
Your avatar turns into 7 of you, stacked in the same space and all move as if they were one. You become an army of you! With friends dressed the same, you could fill screens with apparently hundreds of people all looking the same!
I'm certain there was ways to prevent lag in coding if there's several of the same element on screen.
Borrow:
Hide underground. Helps with Hide and Seek. This quite literally already happens whenever you step on water in gold beach. So it's just a stretch and some testing to prevent the thing from breaking and maybe it could be done. Specially funny to surprise people by jumping out with a bunch of friends.
Player Interaction:
Why not give players stuff that works like the animation of sweetheart? I mean, what if you wanted to blow a kiss to someone? Red said Sweetheart should be left alone. I grant him that, but still...
What if you could get noisemakers to play a sound to entertain, signal (a whistle) or annoy others(vuvuzela noise maker)?
What if on New Year's Eve we could buy and launch fireworks of several kinds together for screen-shots. And "physics" Heart Balloons attached to your avatar on valentine's?
There's a lot one can do in terms of limited use cosmetics and since the resizers are a possibility, I feel it's appropriate to pitch in all of the similar ideas! If sold cheap, people would buy loads an loads of them. 25GC for 25 Fireworks would be a cent to do something pretty and exclusive in the game: Why not?
inb4flashanimatordev [...] I think this is actually the right place. Sort of :V @Borrow: I'd do it so that standing you're normal, kneeling you're invisible (still targetable... if they find ye). Variation: whilst kneeling you turn into an unassuming bush/statue of self/letter of z alpha b/scenery whatever. @Army: how about turning temporarily whoever you target's avatar into a copy of your own? I could see some issues/harrassment coming out of this but the starmony outbreaks/assimilation fights possiblities are alluring. @Army, variation: see that option to have a trail/tail behind your cursor so it becomes easier to follow? Apply that to your avatar. Perfissues indeed. Maybe just a trail of colored silhouettes :/ Kosmetix.
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:20 pm
gataka @Army: how about turning temporarily whoever you target's avatar into a copy of your own? I could see some issues/harrassment coming out of this but the starmony outbreaks/assimilation fights possiblities are alluring. Kosmetix. Silly gataka. You've done this in reverse! Copy-cat: You turn into a copy of the person you're targeting. DO BOTH! Quote: @Army, variation: see that option to have a trail/tail behind your cursor so it becomes easier to follow? Apply that to your avatar. Perfissues indeed. Maybe just a trail of colored silhouettes :/ Are you suggesting... After-images? (when the character dashes, there's two of those behind. Actually, this game was more straightforward with it. or this one.)
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:50 pm
DrQuint gataka @Army: how about turning temporarily whoever you target's avatar into a copy of your own? I could see some issues/harrassment coming out of this but the starmony outbreaks/assimilation fights possiblities are alluring. Kosmetix. Silly gataka. You've done this in reverse! Copy-cat: You turn into a copy of the person you're targeting. DO BOTH! Quote: @Army, variation: see that option to have a trail/tail behind your cursor so it becomes easier to follow? Apply that to your avatar. Perfissues indeed. Maybe just a trail of colored silhouettes :/ Are you suggesting... After-images? (when the character dashes, there's two of those behind. Actually, this game was more straightforward with it. or this one.) Oy! Why didn't I think of that? I'm sure someone would complain about free halos and lost prestige and mumble grumble... If A turns B into A and then C copies B, would he look like A or B? ¯3¯ Yes! Yes! Never too sure what to call it xD
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Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 9:58 pm
gataka If A turns B into A and then C copies B, would he look like A or B? ¯3¯ Like B. The "Looks" on B is only a special effect. Smoke and Mirrors and Applied Ghysics.
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