I have had my first indirect encounter with this group, and I am wondering if anyone here has heard of it...
My semi-cousin (I'll explain that one later) has come home on military leave. When he left, he scorned organized religion because practitioners tendency to develop a 'sheep' complex.
He comes home, and seems the same, until we are hanging out yesterday. He tells me in the middle of everything that he needs to get back to his dad's house to get ready for his evening plans. I ask him what is going on, because I thought it was our day to hang out. He says we did hang out through the day, but he had evening plans... So after a bit of pressing, he finally tells me he is going to church with another friend of ours... to which I congratulate him, still a bit surprised. I ask him where they are going to go to church at on Tuesday though, as most churches hold services on Wednesday night... and he says, "Well, it's a different kind of church. We practice by worshiping on the TRUE Sabbath."
I was a bit taken aback by his tone, but at the same time I was a bit impressed that he went from a very informal attitude about God to so devout in just a year's time... I then asked where he was going to go, because I know several Sabbath/Seventh Day congregations in the area, and he said that I wouldn't know anyone where he was going... long story short, he was having our mutual friend drive him to Mississippi to go to church, which is at least 5 hours away!
All he would say after he gave me this much information was that he was Christian, and he just felt this was what he needed to do... To which I can accept to a point, but his attitude was very strange...
Now, our friend who he convinced to take him so far for a 2 hour service is at a vulnerable point spiritually, and he had found this out the night before. In fact, there seems to be a bit guilt tripping involved, according to some of the things both of them have told me about their conversation (of course, the one-sided story from either of them seems innocent enough, until you have both halves to put together...)
Yet, in the end he won her compliance with vagueness and sincerity, so she agreed to make the drive. On the way, she says she started feeling a bit suspicious, because he could not and would not answer her questions about what to expect. She started getting a head-ache and by the time she got there, she had a pretty throb going on... She was ushered into a sexually segregated sanctuary, and as soon as she entered, one of the women threw a veil over her head and separated her from our friend, which frightened the heck out of her (although, to me this doesn't seem too suspicious)... but she really couldn't understand the service much because she could not understand the Korean missionary who was conducting the service...
She did notice that when prayers were said, the congregation prayed to a Mother, and to a Christ Ahn Sahng-Hong... Which she did not understand. When she asked, she was given vague answers and directed to scripture verses to prove the validity of the prayers, and beliefs...
The ladies asked if she would like to do a Bible Study with them to which she said 'yes'. She was then told a few of the beliefs they held, which made her feel thoroughly confused...
Some of the things they told her: *Our spirits are actually those of the angels who fell to the earth having sinned against God, and now we must atone and try to regain our place in Heaven... *The Passover is the Seal of God upon His Chosen that saves us from His wrath... *The Passover is when sins can be forgiven, the lamb of Passover is the 'scapegoat' to which our sin is removed from us...
....and some other stuff that was so confusing to her that she wasn't sure she could relate it right....
Anyway, the women, having shared "The True Testimony" would not let her leave until she was baptized in their faith... And so, when the water splashed on her face, she said she got an instant migraine... She felt that she had done something she knew she shouldn't and on the drive home, she felt worse and worse until she finally could not drive anymore.
My cousin didn't know her inner conflict, and was so happy to have her as a new fellow member of his faith, that she was feeling even more dreadful about the goings-on of the night. Yet, at the end of the night, he requested that she not say anything to anyone about what the church was like, about what she witnessed, or what she heard...
She was SO confused this evening when she came to the house, because she needed to talk to someone, but was torn because he had coerced her to promise not to say anything, specifically to me... So, I just promised not to tell him, and she poured out...
Yet, now I wonder, this church boasts of massive numbers, and from what I can gather, there is evidence to back it. Yet, the doctrines that I find on the site (which are vague, you have to become a registered member of the church it seems to get any REAL info) are very... ehhh... different...
The immediate red flags that flashed in front of me were... the fact that he must hide what he believes... the site will not outline it's stance in a straight-forward fashion... and much guilt-tripping...
I have done some much deeper delving tonight, and come up with many more alarming revelations into this system... yet, with real information of stance not immediately presented in the church's official site and media, I am trying not to be hasty... I will share some of it in my next post.
The more I thought about it, the more I realized that I had heard of this cult before, I just didn't know it by the real spelling...
One of the first people I talked to here on Gaia knew a woman who had subscribed to this belief, and she had sworn away her family for the sake of the religion, and had given all of her money to the church... I am trying to find the posts, as my PMs have long since vanished into the abyss of expiration...
Anyway, I am trying to remember the particulars of that the woman who had been thoroughly entrenched in the faith for many years... I do hope I can find it.
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:35 pm
My reasons for distrusting it:
You have the founder of this group regarded as the second coming of Christ. That's the big one right there. If he's the one making the claim, then I'm even more distrustful.
Based on what you said, how they initiate new members seems rather manipulative. While this could be just an isolated case regarding this church in particular, it does raise some red flags.
Next warning flag, they seems to be very "Bible-idolatry ". The boast the Bible up as an idol and take many verses very legalistically. I'm distrustful of any organization that does this, mainstream or not. The Bible is a useful tool, but without that inner divinity of reason as a guide and teacher, the Bible leads to madness. Kinda like trying to go drive on the interstate without knowing how to drive, you're just asking for problems.
If you're worried about this person you might want to find out what it is about this group that appeals to him. Many such groups appeal to needs that aren't being met in their current situation.
After much delving, and some major confusion, and headaches... This is what I have found...
*The group believes that our spirits are actually those of the angels who sinned against God and were ejected from Heaven. Our bodies are just temporal prisons for the Fallen. Now we must atone for the sins we committed against God be living this life. They quote Genesis 2:7 and Ecclesiastes 12:7 as their basis for these beliefs.
*The group prays to their trinity- Jehovah, the Jerusalem Mother, and Christ Ahn Sahng-Hong...
The Jerusalem Mother is their feminine aspect of God and they support their belief in her by quoting the last half of the verse Galatians 4:26...
The personification of the Jerusalem Mother is Zahn Gil-Jah, the spiritual wife of the man Ahn Sahn-hong.
Ahn Sahng-Hong is the personification of Christ's Second Coming according to their doctrine. I am unclear what scripture they reference as their support of this, but I do know it is Revelations verse, and that it has something to do with Christ coming in cloud and fire from the East... and they claim Korea is the far eastern-most end of the Earth...
*The practice of the Passover and observance of the 10 Commandments is the Seal of God placed by God upon the TRUE Believers referred to in Revelations, and we are living in the age of the Seventh Seal now, awaiting the third advent of Christ.
*They observe the "True Sabbath", because Sunday observance is a Pagan inspired tradition laid down by Constantine...
*Baptism is the first step toward Salvation.
These are main doctrinal tenants that I have found that are consistent with sources claiming the religion, AND with sources refuting it... there are other things I am still researching, but can not be 100% certain of their relevance yet...
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:19 pm
My cousin told our friend that he can not really talk about what he believes until he understands the tenants of the faith better... that if she was interested in learning more, then she would need to go and listen to the missionary to gain further understanding... He does not have an opinion or mind of his own in regards to his belief, and this is very dangerous... I never figured him for the type to give up his own mind.
He still does not know that I talked to our friend about this church, and he has only divulged to me, what he did on our conversation on Monday; that his church is a 'non-denominational' church; that he practices the TRUE Sabbath; and that he is a Christian likeme.
His exact words were, "I am a Christian likeyou." trailing off to a point of almost inaudibility by the end of the sentence... Then he reaffirmed that he is a Christian, but didn't seem to accept me as one after that.
He seems VERY nervous that I will bring the subject up though, because now, when our friend says anything about their drive on Monday, he wants to move on to a distraction topic... It really couldn't get anymore obvious than if he suddenly pointed to the sky and yelled, "LOOK! A Distraction!!!"...
I left my Bibles and reference material out on the coffee table last night before I went to bed, and when he arrived at my house this morning, and noticed them lying there, he looked like a spooked cornered rabbit.
I haven't said a single thing to him about what he believes, I am playing off that I didn't notice he condescending tone or the fact that he had to restate the Christian sentence leaving me out of the realms of practitioner.
I talked to him today like he was a fellow congregant, and shared some of my testimony that I only share with fellow believers... things he didn't know about me, and it seems to have shaken him a little in and of itself... I am hoping that he will recognize the difference between his 'testimony' which seems to be quotations from what he was told to memorize, and no personal experience, and my testimony which leaves me telling experiences in first person.
He also is VERY willing to get our friend to himself, and talk to her about the wonders of his religion. So , I am hoping that in helping her fortify herself, and helping her gather the tools she needs to refute the somewhat twisted claims that he is subscribing to, that it will help to get through to him. That is what we stayed up last night doing... She would ask a question, or relate something she was told in the church or by my cousin, and we would look up the passages, and find the contexts behind them...
It is pretty obvious to me that if I try to confront him, it will sever a fraying thread of hope that I might be of assistance to get through to him. I don't see any way of figuring out what attracts him to this doctrine, at least not through means of one-on-one discussion between the 2 of us. So, I will play an indirect role at doing whatever is necessary to help him find his way back to sanity even if that only means I help those that he will talk to find confident footing in refuting the twisted doctrines he presents. As long as he will still carry on a relationship with me, then I can continue to do my best to be a silent witness if nothing else.
In the meantime... He left his Bible and notebook in my friend's car after the trip, and he took off to his dad's house. So when he was scarce, I got a little sneaky and peeked in his notes... He doesn't seem to be very far into the doctrine.
The first section of notes dealt with the passage 2 Peter 1:20: Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. He wrote a very strange bit concerning the interpretation of that scripture..."It is important to understand what the Bible says but it is sin for one to interpret it.".......
To me this sounds like a set-up, the way he has his note worded... as though someone was saying, others will tell you what they think the Bible means, but they are using their own personal interpretations, and they are sinning by doing so... But that is my hasty conclusion.... I just find it strange that it is THE ONLY verse that he has in his notes that I cannot find listed in any of the official propaganda of this religion... at the same time, it is obvious that he has not learned what he is praying to, or why he is doing what he does yet... But moving on...
He has several notes on Passover, and for the most part they are pretty accurate as far as observance practices, the story of the Passover, and Jesus' observance of the Passover before he was arrested. The last bit he has about Passover seems to be the beginnings of the doctrine that Passover and the Sabbath are the seal by which true Christians are known...
Directly after that he seems to have his first notes about the Jerusalem Mother, and it equates the New Jerusalem described in the second half of Galatians 4:26 to the Heavenly Mother... with a scribbled note that the familial structure here on Earth imitates the structure of the Heavenly family.... and if you read the whole chapter in context, and then read what the WMSCOG has concocted for the second half of Gal 4:26, you might very well suffer an aneurysm.... I almost did.
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:39 pm
Okay they are set up like a lot of other evangelical group. That's what is setting off the red flags. There's a lot of potential for stuff to go wrong, like in other legalistic interpretive Churches.
Concerning Galatians 4
24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother.
It's a metaphor Paul is using to explain to Gentile Christians under his care why they didn't need to convert to Judaism and why listening to the Torah Observing Christians was going to cause them problems.
Yes, this is what I explained to our mutual friend last night... and she didn't have any issue understanding the original context of the entire chapter...
What was so insane was how they base one of their 3 most prominent doctrines on half of a Scripture, and their idea has no more to do with the verse (let alone the chapter) than it has to do with the price of tea in China. I don't see how they can turn an analogy into a prophesy and state that a woman who is alive today is the Heavenly Spiritual Mother to all of the TRUE children....
I might just be tired, but I just can't wrap my head around their interpretation. I mean, the chapter in itself is so simply stated and clear in it's meaning to me... Paul didn't really leave any room for you to misunderstand this passage IMO... but then again, I have been raised with my nose in a Bible... but like I said, my friend had no issues understanding what Paul was talking about either, so .... I just don't know... confused
Every verse that has reappeared in the propaganda sites, we have read the chapters surrounding the verse, to pull the original meaning back into focus...
I also took time to introduce her to the wonders of the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, and a good ole' reliable Bible dictionary... and pointed out the beginnings of finding the original meanings of keywords by knowing what language a text was originally written in. She was soaking it in, until we both just got too tired to focus.
I have so many tabs opened in my browser now, leading to different
Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 8:44 pm
Tonight, my research time has been spent trying to learn about Ahn Sahng-hong, and his wife Zahn Gil-Jah...
These two people, for having such a prominent following of millions of peoples, are remarkably hard to learn anything about....stare...More red flags...
I have been able to determine that Sahng-hong was born in 1918... He was a Buddhist before he converted to Sabbath Day Adventist in 1947, and he was baptized in 1948... He established the WMSCOG in 1964 in Korea... He has written 3 books... Visitors from the Angelic World The Seal of God and the Last Plagues The Mystery of God and the Spring of the Water of Life He died in 1985 for some sort of heart disease...
Gil-Jah is apparently still alive, but cannot leave Korea... I cannot find any verifiable personal information about her except for her role in the WMSCOG, and also that she is Chairman of 2 foundations: New Life Welfare Foundation International We Love You Foundation
I have found some pretty interesting testimonies of people who have been a part of the church in the past, and they all seem to line up. I am actually considering attempting to contact a few of these people who have posted their experiences, and seeing if they can direct me to where I can get official info...
Anyway, I gotta go... My friend and cousin have just pulled into the drive, so I need to leave this alone for now...
My cousin has left to go back to his base, but before he did, he called one of the people from the 'Church of God' to come up and do a Bible study with our friend...
These people hale from Mississippi and we are in Missouri...
They brought some books up for our friend (who left them for me to pour through) and they brought her a head veil, and they 'studied' for a few hours...
Their study session seemed to consist of a rapid fire of scriptures where they gave their interpretation and then moved to the next scripture (according to my friend, she didn't have time for many questions)... My cousin still seemed pretty secretive towards me, even after our friend told him that she talked to me about it...
I am concerned because my friend is starting to feel drawn to this idea. I can see where it would be appealing though. I mean, I would feel pretty special if someone drove over 300 miles to have a 2 or 3 hour Bible study with me. She has also admitted to enjoying the flattery that the women gave her when she showed up to the church. The people are loving and friendly, and that is more than she has come to expect from churches around here... and honestly, I can somewhat relate to that sentiment at least...
I don't normally get riled at people taking what truth they can relate to from any religion and moving on if said religion doesn't strike that chord that must be struck to bring harmony to the soul... but for some reason, the WMSCOG really gets under my skin... If they didn't straight up claim to be THE TRUE Church to my friend, I would probably ignore them...
BUT...
I first heard of Ahn Sahng-hong two years ago; and I educated myself of it... apparently, the group is a little more extreme overseas than it is here... In the States, it seems that people don't get too stigmatized if they decide to leave.
Overseas, in some instances, whole villages tend to get converted, and those that don't convert with the rest are shunned...
Some people are told that if they were living in God's Will they would overcome illnesses... This is what was happening to one woman in particular, whom a friend of mine had ended up taking care of (in the Middle East). The woman in particular had ended up with an illness after being a devout member of the church for many years. She had given everything that she had to the church because of her devotion, but when she became too sick to work anymore (or to pay tithes), the pastor evicted her from the congregation. No one there helped her because the pastor had stated that she must be out of the will of God to stay sick like she was... She was so ingrained in the teachings of the church, that she would not call her children, whom she had renounced because they did not follow her religion. To call them would be to not trust in God to save her from her affliction. It would also mean that she was trusting someone more than she trusted God, and thus idolatry...
Yet, here in the States, allot of people get drawn in by the friendliness of the congregation, but then more and more is required of them at the behest of the pastor. There are 4 people I have talked to that have been a part of this church at some time... 3 of them were 'excommunicated' because they lost jobs and could not pay the amount of tithes and offerings that they had started out with paying. The other person quit because the pastor said he was not paying a 'godly' amount, and he realized that the pastor would have him go bankrupt before he reached that 'godly' amount...
The people that belong to the church that I have talked to all very much love the church though... I have had varying degrees of actual religious conversation, and a couple of my pen-pals even wanted to set up face-to-face Bible studies with me... but all of these people seem to be withholding something, as I run into vague answers or sometimes even copy/paste ones with every person I talk to. They don't seem to want to explain to me why my interpretation is 'wrong', they just tell me that it is, and they tell me their 'right' version.
For the most part, these people seem to be better off financially than my family, which may or may not mean anything... One person straight up asked me if I worked, and I had to wonder if that pissed me off because of what I had already been told, or if I was just over-reacting in my head... I told them I didn't, and they asked if anyone in my household worked, which again, sent alarms ringing in my head...
Now that my cousin is gone, and my friend keeps getting phone calls asking for follow-up Bible studies, I think I might see about setting one up here at my house. I would like to get to the bottom of what is going on in their heads...
...And to be honest, I have seen some good in some of what they say, but the idea that the second coming of Jesus was born in 1918 and died in a way which helped no one of heart disease in 1985 just puts me off... I mean if they want a new Buddah, let's call it Buddhism, not THE TRUE Church...
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 8:38 pm
You might want to do that, though I'd be prepared for "follow-up" calls and visits based on what you are saying.
They sound very destructive and have tinges of Calvinism (i.e. you're rich because gawd wants you to be rich). The fact that they won't help those who are sick is a big red flag right there. They shun outsiders (those who won't convert) is another red flag as well. That goes against even mainstream teachings.
What you might want to do concerning your friend is to invite her to a bible discussion and share with her some of your interpretations and why you interpret scriptures that way. I don't think you will do this but a common mistake that's often made during Bible Studies is the moderator sets the study where it's a "my way or the highway" attitude or like a parent/child discussion. You're going to want to avoid this methodology especially in this situation since it may set some triggers if the "true teachings" mindset has set in.
I'm not really a "My Way Or" sort, but when discussing what these people say as opposed to what I have learned, I have to continually check myself...
I have tried to be a counterweight to what they have told my friend, and I have even pointed out where some of their ideas may be good ones...
Mostly, my friend can relate to the beginning part of the Chapter in Galatians (the chapter from where they take their favorite half-verse from) where it basically says if you are going to abide by one law, then you need to abide by all of them... The people she has talked to have pretty much said that abiding by the famous 10 and following Passover is the seal, and they live by the New Covenant thereafter.
At this point I really think the draw for her is the fact that all the "cute little Asian women love" her and tell her she is beautiful (which I think she is, but it means more coming from people she doesn't know scream)... My friend loves other cultures, and she is such a lovable person that she seems to find it novel that she has found people who would be absolutely lovable back to her. She isn't reserved in her lovableness to the point that it puts most people off, it seems as though these people are less reserved than she is though... stare
We will probably get together this weekend and go over what I can put together from the information she has left me... If she is still considering pursuing this religion, we'll see about setting up a meeting somewhere in which I can be a part...
I'll probably get another friend of mine who is educated in not only the Bible, but also it's history and that of the church, since there were 3 people who came North last weekend for their study. Safety in numbers... although my friend is worried that these people might feel intimidated...
I just want to show her that I am not the only one who holds the ideas I hold, and that there is more to the history of the church than the Council of Nicea (which seems to be a big focal point in their ideology, still trying to figure it out). They seem to be as skeptical of Constantine as I am, but like I said, there are some points to which I can agree with them on, but none that are essential to what I believe a Christian relationship is and what they believe a Christian relationship is.
I will keep everyone posted... and after I get some concrete WMSCOG theology for myself, I may start asking for people's takes on it... the more I read through this stuff, the more overwhelmingly angry I feel, and I can't really be a dependable counterbalance if I am responding in anger...
Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2011 10:12 pm
Galatians is one of my favorite books. It was the cornerstone for Marcion's theology and for Martin Luther's as well.
The follow up to Galatians "if you follow the law you should follow all or none" is that it's in your best interest to follow none because you aren't Hebrew and it's not going to make you a better Christian to convert to being a Hebrew, if anything, it makes being a Christian more difficult.
Anyway sounds like you have a good plan going. If you'd like some help from this "heretic", I'll do what I can. Commentary and interpretations is one of my strong points 3nodding.
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