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Envisioning the future of zOMG! 

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Red Kutai
Captain

Benevolent Codger

PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:46 pm



Except... Not our game. sweatdrop

The other games of the site - Fishing (something like Atrash's old Lasso suggestion, but with a Fishing Pole/Net/Harpoon Gun), the Casino (a 'Jackpot!' ring - something highly random, or Luck-based), or Rally (something automotive). For that matter, we could introduce rings themed around Towns (though I've got no idea what it'd be), Pinball (the concept of a ricocheting pinball builds its own Ring - not to mention that charging Rage feels just like pulling back the pin), Word Bump (something loquacious - probably puts enemies to Sleep) and even a 'Junk Ring', available exclusively from Dumpster Dive. Oh, and naturally a MoGa 'Starseed Ring', that lets you control enemies for a short period.

It's possible that these would be available directly from the games in question (some would have to be), or produced using Alchemy and game items as components. I prefer the former, personally, making these Rings actually exclusive to the players they represent (only zOMGaians who also play Fishing would own a Fishing Ring, for instance), but still available to everyone. An important point: these rings are more about expression than advancing gameplay, so giving them potentially underpowered but unique effects, makes particularly good sense.

For the record, I stumbled on the idea from Goof (which I think should be separated into its own minigame), though I don't actually recall how it evolved from there. There was something involving ring granting, but it jumped up into this all rather quickly... sweatdrop
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 1:43 am


I'm all for this. But I don't know if I'd bother going out of my way to ask for it. Wouldn't mind showing support though.

One of the things I've been poking fun at with MoGa since its inception is how much it doesn't incentive players to care about gaia in any way. We even been meaning to ask them to 1) Let us gain gold from there - to make gaia players want to play MoGa and 2) Let the Gaia avatar appear on the game - to make facebook players want to check out Gaia. Then they did the rather horrible job of implementing gold in a rather annoying way if you want your facebook clear of people you barely know (Flute-spam) and they made BOTH bonuses, gold and avatars, only appear if you log on MoGA from gaia, meaning any facebook player (all 8,255,998 of them) won't even know they could bother with gaia.

Also, they removed the daily bonus for being on gaia. Stupidest move ever. As if gifting isn't going to give far more perks than a single star seed each day.

So I pretty much just stopped asking. I won't even bother with gaining equipable avatar stuff trough MoGa Quests, since they'll ruin that too. They just weren't getting the point. Gaia does a terribly crudy job of bringing their own stuff togheter, since what matters is how well the 'current' one does, leaving most for abandonment after their grace period is done. MoGa is no different other than the fact it is external to Gaia itself. Luckly, Alchemy sort of fixes that flaw.
I wouldn't see why we shouldn't use the system for that, but anyone with a marketplace would just skip over the game, unfortunately. Even orbs can be traded, since the Orb Agregate is unsoulbound. In the end, I'd guess I have to agree. Those rings would have to be granted in-game.

Also, Red, you know what's the logical conclusion from your suggestion, right? 'Null Rod', that uses charge orbs instead of bait, and sometime catches animated instead of fish, anyone?
And I wonder what kind of animated we could stick inside a Star Seed.

DrQuint
Vice Captain

Girl-Crazy Ladykiller


DrQuint
Vice Captain

Girl-Crazy Ladykiller

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 4:26 am


Red Kutai
or Rally (something automotive). For that matter, we could introduce rings themed around Towns (though I've got no idea what it'd be) (...) and even a 'Junk Ring', available exclusively from Dumpster Dive.


Rally Ring would be easy. Make it a charging attack. The user throws his body against an enemy at high speed, closing the distance between both. Pretty much the same thing Taiku drums do.
Would need careful colision testing because of getting stuck. Any obstacle in the way would have to prevent the player from continuing their charge. Maybe it would be best to make the ring do more damage the further away the foe is, with minimal damage at nose picking range, to prevent people from triggering it while both them and the animated are hugging a wall. Too much at least.


Towns? uh... A bug catching net? I can't see how to not make that either a duct tape or a quicksand clone. Or a lasso Clone.
What about a flower themed thing then? How about this. A Combo Healing ring. 2 seconds cooldown. Everytime you hit someone with it, a bud grows further and further in their head, along with instant healing. The more you hit them, the more the bud grows into a flower, and the more you heal them. After 8 hits, they'll have a fully grown flower on their head and the ring will be at maximum healing potential. If you stop hitting them after 5 seconds, the whole thing withers and restarts.
Rage Ranks both make the flower grow more at once and heal you more. Best used to either make the first hit (Getting to a fully grown flower quicker) or to do a whole lot of burst healing, but that would either require someone else to flower your target during your delay, or you'd risk losing everything if you weren't fast enough. Also, just for fun there could be different possible flower species. Purely cosmetic, but would make for great screenshots.
I see that as a good ring to have to choose against Bandage. Also we'd be the first game to have gardening as a mean of fig-... There's so much you can do with garbage. You could make enviroment placed garbage bombs. You could make garbage automatons. You could make falling garbage blocks. You could make a "Salvage" or "Recycling" themed rings that do very few damage but have higher chance of getting loot or recipes from enemies if used as the finishing blow. (Not rings, gold or orbs)
I... Will let someone else do that one.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 9:10 am


Quintafeira12
Rally Ring would be easy. Make it a charging attack. The user throws his body against an enemy at high speed, closing the distance between both. Pretty much the same thing Taiku drums do.
Would need careful colision testing because of getting stuck. Any obstacle in the way would have to prevent the player from continuing their charge. Maybe it would be best to make the ring do more damage the further away the foe is, with minimal damage at nose picking range, to prevent people from triggering it while both them and the animated are hugging a wall. Too much at least.

I've thought about charging attacks before, actually; and in much the same context, as well (I had a short-lived Biker Set concept, but it was also proposed for a Knight Set). I liked the idea of making it a long-range attack that knocks the user 'back' toward the target - essentially, a ranged attack that always leaves you in melee range. As I recall, I also proposed having damage based on the distance between the two (so it rewards users trying to 'charge', rather than spamming it from melee range), but I also like the idea of the 'Knockback' allowing players to go past the enemy - actually running them over.
Quote:
Towns? uh... A bug catching net? I can't see how to not make that either a duct tape or a quicksand clone. Or a lasso Clone.
What about a flower themed thing then? How about this. A Combo Healing ring. 2 seconds cooldown. Everytime you hit someone with it, a bud grows further and further in their head, along with instant healing. The more you hit them, the more the bud grows into a flower, and the more you heal them. After 8 hits, they'll have a fully grown flower on their head and the ring will be at maximum healing potential. If you stop hitting them after 5 seconds, the whole thing withers and restarts.
Rage Ranks both make the flower grow more at once and heal you more. Best used to either make the first hit (Getting to a fully grown flower quicker) or to do a whole lot of burst healing, but that would either require someone else to flower your target during your delay, or you'd risk losing everything if you weren't fast enough. Also, just for fun there could be different possible flower species. Purely cosmetic, but would make for great screenshots.
I see that as a good ring to have to choose against Bandage. Also we'd be the first game to have gardening as a mean of fig-...

I've always liked the idea of effects that grow stronger as you repeat them - giving up versatility, that is, for extra power. I've proposed an attack ring that hits once for each time it's been used previously (a 'Flurry of Blows' type of thing) - essentially, it had 5 'Rage' animations, each with that many hits, and using it granted the user a 'buff' (just a placeholder) of the appropriate Rank. Each time the ring was used, it checked whether the user had that buff in place, and used the Ring at a Rank one higher than the current buff's Rank. So, essentially, it using it at RR1 would mean it's used at RR2 next time, and RR3 afterwards... All the way up to 'RR5' (which granted no buff).

Anyhow, the point is, I could see a similar system working here - I'd probably cut it down to 5 uses at maximum (so that the buff only ever needs to hit 'Rank 4' - at this point, that's standard), but having the Ring check whether the target has that buff active, and use it at a Rage Rank one higher than the current buff's Rank. You would have to modify it slightly for it to work well at maintaining the increased healing potential (my first thought was simply having it heal progressively more, then 'bloom' into an AoE Heal, and start over), but I do like the fact that it encourages players to select one target for healing - that is, it encourages having a designated Tank.

I really like the idea of a 'Recycling' or 'Scrap' Ring (unfortunately, we're already using the term 'Salvage') that
guarantees converting enemies to loot or recipes. But, then, I always like the idea of rings that have triggered effects (and triggering on killing enemies is really natural), so I suppose that's nothing new. Still, it would get a lot of excitement from the Alchemy community, I would think... wink

Red Kutai
Captain

Benevolent Codger


DrQuint
Vice Captain

Girl-Crazy Ladykiller

PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 3:24 pm


Red Kutai

I really like the idea of a 'Recycling' or 'Scrap' Ring (unfortunately, we're already using the term 'Salvage') that guarantees converting enemies to loot or recipes. But, then, I always like the idea of rings that have triggered effects (and triggering on killing enemies is really natural), so I suppose that's nothing new. Still, it would get a lot of excitement from the Alchemy community, I would think... wink


So you know where I'm coming from then.
I was thinking the FFTA version. Which ironically, is the one called Poach.

I would possibly not guarantee the drop but considerably increase the chances anyways.
But yes, people would certainly love something like this. And I mean it. Have you seen the recipe drop rates lately? Let me tell you, they're ROCK BOTTOM.


Red Kutai
Anyhow, the point is, I could see a similar system working here - I'd probably cut it down to 5 uses at maximum (so that the buff only ever needs to hit 'Rank 4' - at this point, that's standard), but having the Ring check whether the target has that buff active, and use it at a Rage Rank one higher than the current buff's Rank. You would have to modify it slightly for it to work well at maintaining the increased healing potential (my first thought was simply having it heal progressively more, then 'bloom' into an AoE Heal, and start over), but I do like the fact that it encourages players to select one target for healing - that is, it encourages having a designated Tank.


I also rethought the 8 times thing and got to the same conslusion. I suggested 8 "hits" because I was thinking of crew situations with more than one person using Flower. But now I consider that 8 times might be a lot to get to full potential, and the player would eventually already be fully healed at the point the flower finnally bloomed. Or maybe not.

Instead of answering this, it' easier to think ahead: Wish is also a very quick ring to cooldown (4 seconds) and it'll be rare the situation where 6 uses wouldn't have fully healed you already (late edit: I forgot about Meat. So yeah, maybe that is not true). Obviously, Flower would have to be slightly faster and maybe cheaper and less 'powerful', so hitting 8 times in a row wouldn't be much of an issue. But the whole thing has to be somewhat balanced. So it would be easier to make the budding stages be definetely worse than Wish, but the fully grown more time and stamina effective. This way, the first 5 hits wouldn't compensate the use of Flower over wish, but after the maybe 10th-ish~ hit, the healing potential would definetely be better and Flower would slowly be having an advantage.

On the issue of tanking, I'm still convinced classes in the current game is something people won't care much about, because global buffing efectively killed the need for the practice. Either we design the ring with the pretense of giving more benefit to a single target, or we pander to the current way things go and give it your alternative of AoE Heal Burst.
Personally, I'd go with the "Tank" one. I got two approaches for this.

The first one is both your wish to see tanking again, and all of what I said first above. I would much prefer to design the ring after tanking and making the whole thing be efficient mostly if one person is eating all the damage. Designing the ring to be efficient in a tanking situation would bring up many of those arguments on which is the better ring, like how people seem to hate diagnose despite the fact if it hits all 6 players, it's by far the best one, or how people can't for the life of them decide between Wish on everyone to keep each other safe, or bandage on everyone so everyone can keep themselves safe. As long as there IS the argument, and we can make there be one, then there will be groups of people using each thing, and that is a job well done. We can easily revive the usefulness of Hate generating rings with something like Flower.

Second... I'm thinking Papa Saw. People were lazy enough to spam Fire Rain and Diagnose and be done with it. If they got an AoE Heal burst, there would eventually be crews that would do nothing but target one person and emulate diagnose's effect by constantly healing said one person, this among other diagnoses if required. So yeah, it''s just a personal silly thing, but I'd rather not give them that benefit.
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:07 pm


Quintafeira12
I'm all for this. But I don't know if I'd bother going out of my way to ask for it. Wouldn't mind showing support though.

One of the things I've been poking fun at with MoGa since its inception is how much it doesn't incentive players to care about gaia in any way. We even been meaning to ask them to 1) Let us gain gold from there - to make gaia players want to play MoGa and 2) Let the Gaia avatar appear on the game - to make facebook players want to check out Gaia. Then they did the rather horrible job of implementing gold in a rather annoying way if you want your facebook clear of people you barely know (Flute-spam) and they made BOTH bonuses, gold and avatars, only appear if you log on MoGA from gaia, meaning any facebook player (all 8,255,998 of them) won't even know they could bother with gaia.

Also, they removed the daily bonus for being on gaia. Stupidest move ever. As if gifting isn't going to give far more perks than a single star seed each day.

So I pretty much just stopped asking. I won't even bother with gaining equipable avatar stuff trough MoGa Quests, since they'll ruin that too. They just weren't getting the point. Gaia does a terribly crudy job of bringing their own stuff togheter, since what matters is how well the 'current' one does, leaving most for abandonment after their grace period is done. MoGa is no different other than the fact it is external to Gaia itself. Luckly, Alchemy sort of fixes that flaw.
I wouldn't see why we shouldn't use the system for that, but anyone with a marketplace would just skip over the game, unfortunately. Even orbs can be traded, since the Orb Agregate is unsoulbound. In the end, I'd guess I have to agree. Those rings would have to be granted in-game.

Also, Red, you know what's the logical conclusion from your suggestion, right? 'Null Rod', that uses charge orbs instead of bait, and sometime catches animated instead of fish, anyone?
And I wonder what kind of animated we could stick inside a Star Seed.


Would this mean incorporating moga with zOMG!? Also would the captured creature turn into a summon? I don't think gaia would like that, GC and all D:

piiaz

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:11 pm


Quintafeira12
How about this. A Combo Healing ring. 2 seconds cooldown. Everytime you hit someone with it, a bud grows further and further in their head, along with instant healing. The more you hit them, the more the bud grows into a flower, and the more you heal them. After 8 hits, they'll have a fully grown flower on their head and the ring will be at maximum healing potential. If you stop hitting them after 5 seconds, the whole thing withers and restarts.


I like this idea :3 It reminds me of pikmin. Im kinda confused on plausibility though surprised

Is the healing ring an attack 2? Do you put a flower on there head, and when its sunny they get stamina or health faster biggrin ?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:39 pm


Toasty Ermine
Would this mean incorporating moga with zOMG!?


Not exactly. We'd only create rewards for each game you can get in the other.

Toasty Ermine
Also would the captured creature turn into a summon? I don't think gaia would like that, GC and all D:


uh... The intent was to make a Moga designed after an animated. Red's idea was to make a Ring that lets you control animated.

DrQuint
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piiaz

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:40 pm


Quintafeira12
Toasty Ermine
Would this mean incorporating moga with zOMG!?


Not exactly. We'd only create rewards for each game you can get in the other.

Toasty Ermine
Also would the captured creature turn into a summon? I don't think gaia would like that, GC and all D:


uh... The intent was to make a Moga designed after an animated. Red's idea was to make a Ring that lets you control animated.


So zOMG! Moga's?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:42 pm


Toasty Ermine
Quintafeira12
Toasty Ermine
Would this mean incorporating moga with zOMG!?


Not exactly. We'd only create rewards for each game you can get in the other.

Toasty Ermine
Also would the captured creature turn into a summon? I don't think gaia would like that, GC and all D:


uh... The intent was to make a Moga designed after an animated. Red's idea was to make a Ring that lets you control animated.


So zOMG! Moga's?


Exactly.

That would be a reward for completing a late zOMG! quest. A unique MoGa only zOMG! players have.

It would make MoGa players want to play zOMG!

Hey, it works for TF2. I played Spiral Knights, I really did.

DrQuint
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Girl-Crazy Ladykiller


piiaz

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:45 pm


Quintafeira12
Toasty Ermine
Quintafeira12
Toasty Ermine
Would this mean incorporating moga with zOMG!?


Not exactly. We'd only create rewards for each game you can get in the other.

Toasty Ermine
Also would the captured creature turn into a summon? I don't think gaia would like that, GC and all D:


uh... The intent was to make a Moga designed after an animated. Red's idea was to make a Ring that lets you control animated.


So zOMG! Moga's?


Exactly.

That would be a reward for completing a late zOMG! quest. A unique MoGa only zOMG! players have.

It would make MoGa players want to play zOMG!

Hey, it works for TF2. I played Spiral Knights, I really did.


So a link from moga land to zOMG! and they do a quest, and after that they get a new Moga, thats zOMG! related?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:46 pm


Toasty Ermine
Quintafeira12
Toasty Ermine
Quintafeira12
Toasty Ermine
Would this mean incorporating moga with zOMG!?


Not exactly. We'd only create rewards for each game you can get in the other.

Toasty Ermine
Also would the captured creature turn into a summon? I don't think gaia would like that, GC and all D:


uh... The intent was to make a Moga designed after an animated. Red's idea was to make a Ring that lets you control animated.


So zOMG! Moga's?


Exactly.

That would be a reward for completing a late zOMG! quest. A unique MoGa only zOMG! players have.

It would make MoGa players want to play zOMG!

Hey, it works for TF2. I played Spiral Knights, I really did.


So a link from moga land to zOMG! and they do a quest, and after that they get a new Moga, thats zOMG! related?


Yes. Only they would have to really go around going into late-game zOMG! to do this quest at all.

But yes, you got the gist of it.

DrQuint
Vice Captain

Girl-Crazy Ladykiller


piiaz

Liberal Conversationalist

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 5:49 pm


Quintafeira12
Toasty Ermine
Quintafeira12
Toasty Ermine
Quintafeira12


Not exactly. We'd only create rewards for each game you can get in the other.



uh... The intent was to make a Moga designed after an animated. Red's idea was to make a Ring that lets you control animated.


So zOMG! Moga's?


Exactly.

That would be a reward for completing a late zOMG! quest. A unique MoGa only zOMG! players have.

It would make MoGa players want to play zOMG!

Hey, it works for TF2. I played Spiral Knights, I really did.


So a link from moga land to zOMG! and they do a quest, and after that they get a new Moga, thats zOMG! related?


Yes. Only they would have to really go around going into late-game zOMG! to do this quest at all.

But yes, you got the gist of it.


Wouldn't it be easier to release a couple zOMG! Moga's into moga land, then lure them here with that idea?
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