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Social Security "FICA" Tax is Voluntary

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Dapper Fatcat

PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:26 pm


I suggest you read this and share it with your parents. It's not a long read, print it out and leave it on their desk.

http://www.famguardian.org/PublishedAuthors/Organizations/InformAmerica/TIA 07-27-2001.htm


    The jist of it all (you need to read it to understand how/why

  • The amount owed for FICA is calculated by a percentage under which tax bracket you fall under; as defined by the Secretary of Treasury

  • FICA tax is mandatory only for a government employee (public official, officer, or employee of a government agency), and corporate officers (CEO, CFO, CIO, COO) in Guam, Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and Puerto Rico.

  • The Constitution prohibits direct taxation on all residents within the 50 states within the union as noted under....
    --- Article I, Section 2, Clause 3
    --- Article 1, Section 9, Clause 4

  • Note: Federal Income Tax is a direct tax. However it is legally recognized, accepted, and registered as an indirect tax. It's for this reason the argument "federal income tax is unconstitutional" based off the idea that it is a direct tax is not an adequate argument. And thus FICA may be listed as an indirect tax as well, thus nullifying the "It's unconstitutional" argument as well. However I have not verified if this is true.

  • The entire tax code appears to never impose any tax on anyone other than government employees in Guam, Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico and America Samoa. But instead only serves to act as provision of under which the tax laws should be enforced if they ever do apply - at the same time vaguely noting that legal or illegal U.S citizens is not obligated by law.

    (This propagates that the Internal Revenue Code implies EVERYONE is required to pay FICA tax. Especially when you understand the misleading language that defines the few who are obligated to pay)

  • Employers (all government employees, and just the corporate officers, not anyone below them in private corporations,) only in Guam, Virgin Islands, Puerto Rico, and American Samoa are obligated by law to pay FICA tax.

  • Any employed U.S resident within the 50 states of the union must submit a W4 form notifying employer of their wish to pay FICA tax. And only upon agreement of the employer is the employee then enrolled in FICA by choice.

  • No formal document or form is needed to terminate FICA on demand, just a signed notice and agreement by the employer. However if the employee wishes to reclaim funds, they can resubmit a W4 notifying of a return of tax payments between Jan 1st and Dec 31st of the current year. If you turn in a informal letter to the employer, the FICA tax is to be terminated on Jan 1st of the next year.

  • Social Security tax only applies to those who have voluntarily agreed under mutual agreement.

  • A mandatory social security tax for any US resident of the 50 states would violate the following....
    5th Amendment right to due process, that no citizen will be deprived of property without due process of law
    Thirteenth Amendment prohibition against slavery or involuntary servitude



It's highly encouraged to read that in partnership with the video Theft-By-Deception which is an overview of the technical aspects of Federal Income Tax.



Because Social Security "FICA" tax is based off of wages and earnings by employment, it is under the jurisdiction of federal income tax laws.



Let me be frank... the single greatest expense you will ever have in your life will be taxes.... More than any property you buy, more than any car you drive, more than any loss of all your investments. Your wealth is not measured by how much you make, it's measured by how much you keep.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:33 am



I'm just gonna go out there and say that whether or not all of this stuff is true (taxes being voluntary), without taxes this country would be even more shitty than it already is.

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Dapper Fatcat

PostPosted: Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:43 pm


Vanilla eXee

I'm just gonna go out there and say that whether or not all of this stuff is true (taxes being voluntary), without taxes this country would be even more shitty than it already is.




Actually... not. There's a reason why the power to tax a nation is the greatest power you can have to destroy that nation.

And before you continue, please let me grovel at your feet for forgiveness for making this huge post. Because you responded to such a complex topic in of itself with a one sentence statement about an even more complex topic, I feel I must make a VERY elementary side by side comparison to give you the absolute basics.





Instead of looking at it from the sheer magnitude of the federal government, look at it like a typical household. Both the government, and a self employed family are fundamentally the same.

In our case we'll say the founding fathers was a homosexual male couple named Thomas (Jefferson) and James (Adams), who ironically died on the same day. We'll just say it was a car accident.

So the 300 million children are rounded down to 3 kids who now live with their uncle Sam

________________________________________________________________________

On a federal level... There are 6 ways for a government to succeed


1. Borrows money from the public (both the citizens and non citizens) by issuing bonds.
These bonds are loan agreements. You give the government $100, and they give you a $100 IOU called a bond. They then invest that money in something like a toll road, zoo, tourist site, etc that earns money, they then pay you back your $100 + interest and they now have a cash flow asset..... (This is exactly how I invest in real estate, I borrow from banks, get a rental property, pay them back, and I keep a profitable investment I never have to sell)

2. Investing, and reinvesting surplus savings into investments that pay a dividend
As mentioned, toll roads, government housing, zoos, parks, tourist sites, as well as gold, silver, commodities, stocks, bonds of other nations, technology, transportation, etc.... The idea is to take some spare cash laying around, and invest it in something that generates more money.

The Louisiana Purchase, and the purchase of Alaska from Russia were investments in raw land. 200 years later it's safe to say we got our moneys worth.

3. Starting Socialized Businesses
Besides investing in quick or slow forms of profit, the nation is suppose to engage in business in the public sector with other corporations. It does this by creating government corporations such as....
USPS V.s. Fed Ex and UPS
COBRA V.s. Farmers, Allstate, Geiko, etc...
AARP V.s. (whatever private life insurance company)
NASA V.s. Boeing and Lockheed Martin
Government run bank Vs. Private corporate bank
etc...

The idea is for them to be competitive in the private sector as well, and this leaves them with lots of potential to be very successful financially. Unfortunately as we notice with USPS the mail service, when it fails financially, the government props it up with taxes from other sectors which a private corporation cannot do. This also ignores the fact that bad companies are meant to fail. And by propping it up with taxes they make it even worse. Even more ironically we now prop up private corporations, often times competitors with tax dollars too. Such as AIG, CitiBank, GM, etc...

Had these companies not been propped up, including USPS, letting them all fail evens out the playing field and invites new competition from new companies.

4. Form Partnerships
This goes along the same lines as #1 and #2. The key difference here is the government would partner with wealthy individuals, or with other nations or corporations and tackle one single project such as a super highway from Los Angeles to New York or Tokyo to Los Angeles! This would allow them to work together to create something neither of them would have if they didn't. And they each split the ownership, and profits.

This is also real good for forming treaties among nations who partner with one another in order to finance large international projects such as space travel to the moon, where each nation and corporations, etc would have a fair share of the ownership and control of the moon, or Mars, etc...

5. Warfare
It is greatly expensive and often times not very profitable but if done for legitimate reasons it can be a useful financial tool used for offence or defense. But it's really to never be used....

Successful applications of war have been over indigenous tribes who are relatively inexpensive to fight, such as the Native Americans, Hawaiians, and other remote cultures that lacked technology whose territory we now control, especially Hawaii. Another successful application of war was the revolutionary war that gave us our independence in defense of England, who ironically was destroying us with their high taxes, which eventually lead to the Boston Tea Party (and this is why the Tea Party activists are so against taxation)


6. Taxation
Strictly to be used as an "In case of emergency, break glass" for specific situations only, with very clearly defined purposes, costs, effects, and the reward citizens will get in exchange for their forced participation.

    Such situations would be natural disasters
  • temporary income tax for 5 years to fix up the gulf, then tax expires
    ----- Reward is citizens get their communities back + a little more
  • revolutionary war to defend our freedom and destroy our oppressors
    ---- the reward is a free nation with increased liberties
  • BP gulf oil spill. hike taxes on gas and oil and take care of the mess ASAP.
    ---- the reward is the government takes control of the private corporation, improves it, and makes it profitable (note USPS reference), and provides affordable fuel to the public at a far cheaper price than the oil companies, which forces them to lower their price
  • research and development into specific technological inventions
    ---- the reward is the public gets a much better product that can save time, money, fuel, environment, etc.... And if say it was an electric car invented, there would possibly be a rebate given back if the person buys the electric car from the government, and receive just as much money back as they paid in taxes. Thus getting a more efficient car at a huge discounted price, with some cash back in their pocket that would have otherwise been spent elsewhere.


That is how the federal government is suppose to succeed financially..... Now lets scale this back down



________________________________________________________________________


Individual House level



In a normal home, the parent or guardian (in this case uncle Sam) is suppose to.....

1. Have a job, In this case he is a self employed business owner.
2. He makes small conservative investments with his earnings so he can have a retirement, pay for the education of the kids
3. He builds multiple businesses
4. He makes occasional big investments by buying other businesses, buying apartments, buying lots of land to mine and develop, etc... This is primarily supported by his businesses.
5. He occasionally charges some reasonable tax on the 3 children when appropriate.

If anything he should give the kids an allowance to influence a desired behavior. We call these "tax" credits. today. So instead he would give them $100 to encourage a child to set up a lemonade stand on the corner.

Although something he never does is engage in warfare, he's not going to bomb his neighbor for their assets. If they're a problem the entire community neighborhood (the other nations) are suppose to help keep the order. The only exception is should he himself be invaded and must defend himself. and then the entire neighborhood decides what to do with the delinquent trouble makers (such as North Korea)



In this case Uncle Sam brings in all the income, invests small conservative amounts of it in investments that pay for the social services we benefit from, like education... He also builds business all the time and lets his bad businesses fail knowing that he cannot afford to keep it up otherwise it will destroy him financially. With the vasts amounts of revenue brought in by those corporations, much of which come from the 3 kids he cares for, because they might prefer the us.pod over the ipod, he uses that revenue to make large investments in buying lot next door, or the park across the street, and more. So the kids now have more room to run around and play (Alaska, Louisiana purchases), and he has the rights to control the resources there...

He will also take out huge loan when needed. However unlike you and me, Sam has the right to legally print money, so he doesn't go to the bank and borrow money at interest, he simply prints money, buys what he wants, and uses the profits to gradually buy back his dollars (the IOU notes he gave to the person paid money to) and destroys them. Otherwise he risks having too many Post-It notes floating around. That would make people lose confidence in the value of his IOU notes when he prints money.

He will also ask to borrow money from the children, as well as other nations in the form of bonds to pay interest if he doesn't want to devalue his Post-It notes. This would be like a parent borrows $10 from you and will pay you back. Formally though when the parent pays you back, they should pay you back $11 for your help.

And because all 3 kids are employed, they too generate revenue to help the economy of this house, they will partner with Sam, lend him money and keep it very formal...... And occasionally the car might break down, or the window gets smashed, or a tree falls on the house and he forces the 3 kids to help pay for the repairs. but the reward is they can stay out later with friends, go further without permission, or have some other reward later on.


What Sam shouldn't do, and this is what many parents shouldn't do with their kids is tax them so heavily that the parents/guardians become dependent on the kids to support the "house". Such as by taxing them on their income, by giving the parents an allowance, even worse if they use that money to buy and sell guns and drugs. As the largest arms and drugs dealer in the world, this is a good reflection of our uncle Sam not being the high class business professional he needs to be, instead he acts like a violent substance abuser. Who, if a child decides not to give him money, he beats them, scolds them in front of the others, and locks them in their room with nothing. He also wouldn't tax them on the things they buy and use.

If a child earning their own money buys a TV, he wouldn't tax them on top of the cable bill for them to watch TV, wouldn't tax them on the size of their bedroom or how much stuff it has in it. He also shouldn't charge them fees for using things they bought. Such as if a child bought a car, he shouldn't have his kids pay him to stamp some letters on it to track where it goes, and use his security team to track them. He also shouldn't charge a monthly or annual registration fee to redo the process over and over again just because he can.

He also shouldn't tax their income just to take it from them and say that he has to be the one to pay for their education. But since he spends it all on guns and drugs he can't afford a good school so the kids pay for their own school with their own money left over... But he STILL demands a tax on their property to pay for an education they aren't using....

Remember that allowance he is suppose to give? That's suppose to be his money to the kids to influence their behavior in a way that's good for them, and possibly the whole house. As I mentioned we call them "tax credits" today. Instead of giving a child $100 to start up a company called Minute Maid Lemonade on the corner, he's actually makes a reverse threat! By saying "If you set up a lemonade stand, I will -return- $100 back to you which you paid me in taxes."


I'm not a parent yet, but I have to say that's just sick.....

________________________________________________________________________







With those two examples side by side, you can see the difference between the two realities. One is a self confident, fully sustainable business professional who does what he can to succeed both for himself and his business, as well as for his children. The other is a sadistic abusive drug abuser who commits violent crimes, buys and sells weapons of mass destruction, and bullies the neighbors around and terrorizes them. He makes enemies with the ones he doesn't like with the plasma TV he wants, and uses some of the money he takes from his kids to bribe other neighbors.....

I've grown up with rich and poor people who reflect those two lifestyles very well. I know the difference personally and I know which of the two realities I would use to shape my personal home, as well as any nation I would ever establish.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:12 am



If you'll excuse me, I have an abscessed tooth and I really can't go into all of my reasoning, because I can't make it sound coherent when I type it. All I have is anecdotal evidence from living in a place that is highly taxed, and then moving to a place that is minimally taxed. Quality of life is much higher for people of all income brackets in the place that has higher taxes. I'm not saying that the system now is perfect, it is far from it. We need reform and we need it bad. What kind of reform? I can't say because I'm not an expert. But from personal experience, living in a place that has taxes which are used to better the community and the people living in it is so much better than living where I do now and they don't take state taxes out of your check.
Just stating my opinion, and it's only based on my own experiences. Take it as you will.

Vanilla eXee

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Dapper Fatcat

PostPosted: Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:40 pm


Can I ask where this place is? Just a general region is fine I'm not looking to get your address. I know Florida, Washington, Texas, Nevada, and I think one other state doesn't charge a state income tax. I'm too lazy to mess with my slow internet to bother making sure.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:44 pm


tax is voluntary, actually. The only problem is you volunteer as soon as you get a social security number issued. That's all a SSN is - a tax code. Without an SSN, you don't have to pay taxes.

Then again, if you hadn't noticed, stores still charge you sales tax, unless you have a special out of state ID card and know the lingo. On the bright side, if you make little to no money, you don't pay taxes anyway, so avoiding them is pointless.

Taxes are a problem for the working class and the lower middle class. If you are truly middle class, you have the resources to uproot and move to a tax haven. The truly rich don't pay taxes - they are paid by taxes. Nonetheless, even Billionaires still pay sales tax.

Michael Noire


Vanilla eXee

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:25 am


Sephroe Zion
Can I ask where this place is? Just a general region is fine I'm not looking to get your address. I know Florida, Washington, Texas, Nevada, and I think one other state doesn't charge a state income tax. I'm too lazy to mess with my slow internet to bother making sure.



Sorry, I didn't know you replied. I live in Florida and I used to live in Massachusetts.
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