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 Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 12:30 pm
So what I'm getting from the characters in the game is that the only way to get rid of the demon once it's taken over is to kill the host.
But I'm confused. If that's the case, then what was Connor? With Connor, you just go into the Fade and confront the demon there, and no one has to get decapitated. Why can't you just do that with Justice/Anders? And, for that matter, every other abomination before they get all demony?
It's bothered me for a while, the rules about demons seem to keep changing. So am I missing something, or is this just a gaping plot hole?
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:07 am
To do an excercist (What you did with Connor) you need a team of mages and a lot of lyrium. The alternitive is to use blood magic to enter the fade.
They couldn't excercise every mage in Kirkwall. They didn't know which mages were pocessed and I don't think that they had enough resources to clear them all.
Anders and Justice is a special case. Originally Justice was a spirit, but now? He may as well be a demon. sad
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:42 pm
I don't think Justice's spiritness has anything to do with exorcising issue. He's a special case because he was forcibly removed from the fade with blood magic, essentially cut off from the Fade while at the same time trapped within the vessel of a body. From the way Anders explained it, he and Justice assumed that Justice would be able to go back to the Fade once he dies since it's more... I dunno, natural? Maybe the fact that Justice was attached to a body with a soul makes a difference so that when Ander's soul goes, so does Justice , but then I'm speculating at this point *shrug*
Either way, he definitely couldn't go back via conventional spirity/demonesque methods, so who knows what would've happened if somebody attempted to exorcise him.
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:49 pm
AshRB To do an excercist (What you did with Connor) you need a team of mages and a lot of lyrium. The alternitive is to use blood magic to enter the fade. They couldn't excercise every mage in Kirkwall. They didn't know which mages were pocessed and I don't think that they had enough resources to clear them all. Anders and Justice is a special case. Originally Justice was a spirit, but now? He may as well be a demon. sad Essentially this. But take into account not only the amount of resources that it takes to do an exorcism but the general view of mages. ((And since blood magic is a crime, I don't see this as a liable alternative.)) Connor got off lucky because he was Arl Eamon's son, if he was a regular kid his fate wouldn't have been any different then any other abomination. Templars or even citizens wouldn't think it was "justified" saving a mage that essentially brought such dangers for his own gain/reasons by making a pact with a demon. That and if he did it once what's stopping him from doing it again? For that matter what's stopping any mage from making deals with demons if templars or other mages can just get them out of the mess they created? I think it's a much bigger risk and would make a mage think twice about making such a pact if it meant punishable by death. And Junimaia pretty much said what I was going to say about Justice/Anders.
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:32 pm
Pretty much agree with everyone else here. Connor seemed like an exception to the rule because he's the child of a noble family. Also, the Chantry pretty much controls the legal flow of lyrium and they aren't to keen on the mages in the first place, so they most likely wouldn't give them a mass amount of lyrium to save just any mage from a demon.
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 8:58 pm
Okay, I get it.
But with Justice: Demons are just spirits twisted by their desires, right? I don't see why it would be much different. Pretty much every apostate in Kirkwall owes my Hawke big time (as does the whole city, depending on which Act it is).
And my Hawke has access to lyrium (maybe not legally) and, again depending on the timeline, is rich.
So I don't understand why it's not an option to just get rid of Justice.
I mean, I do in the sense that removing Justice would drastically change the story...
But it should be an option in the next game if Anders is still around.
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 1:21 am
I have an idea on how to free Anders from Justice. It requires DLC giving Hawke a specialization known as "Soul Reaper" Therefore he will be able to guide souls and spirits with an over sized katana. Joking aside, you have to take into account that Justice was not a normal spirit, he was a spirit warrior which as we've seen in awakening not a weak demon therefore it would quite difficult to free Anders from Justice. Also Connor would've been fine if his mother did the right thing to begin with...or maybe not.
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 4:44 pm
Well to do an exorcism, a mage goes to the Fade and kills the demon controlling the host. But in Anders case, Justice is cut off from the Fade. So even if Hawke did go through with it, when he/she got to the Fade their would be nothing to fight because Justice isn't there. And by the sounds of it Justice can only return once the vessel ((Anders)) dies, which would make the exorcism pointless.
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:45 pm
Sanzolvr29 Well to do an exorcism, a mage goes to the Fade and kills the demon controlling the host. But in Anders case, Justice is cut off from the Fade. So even if Hawke did go through with it, when he/she got to the Fade their would be nothing to fight because Justice isn't there. And by the sounds of it Justice can only return once the vessel ((Anders)) dies, which would make the exorcism pointless. Hahaha, fine with me. No, I actually do like Anders, but I've never liked Justice. DA II just made me dislike him more.
I remember he was forced out of the Fade. I forgot that he (probably) couldn't return.
He did show up when you bring Anders into the Fade, but then we're still faced with the whole "Anders has to die" thing...
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 5:52 pm
brainnsoup Sanzolvr29 Well to do an exorcism, a mage goes to the Fade and kills the demon controlling the host. But in Anders case, Justice is cut off from the Fade. So even if Hawke did go through with it, when he/she got to the Fade their would be nothing to fight because Justice isn't there. And by the sounds of it Justice can only return once the vessel ((Anders)) dies, which would make the exorcism pointless. Hahaha, fine with me. No, I actually do like Anders, but I've never liked Justice. DA II just made me dislike him more.
I remember he was forced out of the Fade. I forgot that he (probably) couldn't return.
He did show up when you bring Anders into the Fade, but then we're still faced with the whole "Anders has to die" thing... Hmm, but wasn't Anders in the Fade as well? Maybe that's why Justice was able to be there? It's been a while so I don't remember all the details. >-<
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 7:53 pm
Sanzolvr29 brainnsoup Sanzolvr29 Well to do an exorcism, a mage goes to the Fade and kills the demon controlling the host. But in Anders case, Justice is cut off from the Fade. So even if Hawke did go through with it, when he/she got to the Fade their would be nothing to fight because Justice isn't there. And by the sounds of it Justice can only return once the vessel ((Anders)) dies, which would make the exorcism pointless. Hahaha, fine with me. No, I actually do like Anders, but I've never liked Justice. DA II just made me dislike him more.
I remember he was forced out of the Fade. I forgot that he (probably) couldn't return.
He did show up when you bring Anders into the Fade, but then we're still faced with the whole "Anders has to die" thing... Hmm, but wasn't Anders in the Fade as well? Maybe that's why Justice was able to be there? It's been a while so I don't remember all the details. >-< Yeah, or at least Anders was physically there. But his personality was completely overwhelmed by Justice. So if you killed him there, it would probably make Anders tranquil, right? Isn't that what they said happens to mages in the Fade?
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:48 pm
brainnsoup Yeah, or at least Anders was physically there. But his personality was completely overwhelmed by Justice. So if you killed him there, it would probably make Anders tranquil, right? Isn't that what they said happens to mages in the Fade? Maybe because the Fade is Justice's "home" gives him more control/power over Anders' body, whereas in Thedas it's vice versa. I can't comment about the Tranquil process, I barely remember it. Although what you said does sound vaguely familiar... Wait I think it's coming back... I believe a mage did become Tranquil if they were killed in the Fade but it's not the actual process they typically use to make mages Tranquil... Although I might be pulling things out my a** right now so don't take that to heart.
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:09 pm
Sanzolvr29 brainnsoup Yeah, or at least Anders was physically there. But his personality was completely overwhelmed by Justice. So if you killed him there, it would probably make Anders tranquil, right? Isn't that what they said happens to mages in the Fade? Maybe because the Fade is Justice's "home" gives him more control/power over Anders' body, whereas in Thedas it's vice versa. I can't comment about the Tranquil process, I barely remember it. Although what you said does sound vaguely familiar... Wait I think it's coming back... I believe a mage did become Tranquil if they were killed in the Fade but it's not the actual process they typically use to make mages Tranquil... Although I might be pulling things out my a** right now so don't take that to heart. Haha, no, I understand, it's all really vague to me too.
I think Keeper (Yeah, there's no way I know how to spell her name...) Mare-eh-tharr-ee says that before you go into the fade. Because I think if you kill Feynriel in the Fade, he becomes Tranquil.
But there's a codex or something on the Tranquil of the Circle and how they get the brands on their forheads, but I don't remember which game it's in.
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:21 pm
brainnsoup Sanzolvr29 brainnsoup Yeah, or at least Anders was physically there. But his personality was completely overwhelmed by Justice. So if you killed him there, it would probably make Anders tranquil, right? Isn't that what they said happens to mages in the Fade? Maybe because the Fade is Justice's "home" gives him more control/power over Anders' body, whereas in Thedas it's vice versa. I can't comment about the Tranquil process, I barely remember it. Although what you said does sound vaguely familiar... Wait I think it's coming back... I believe a mage did become Tranquil if they were killed in the Fade but it's not the actual process they typically use to make mages Tranquil... Although I might be pulling things out my a** right now so don't take that to heart. Haha, no, I understand, it's all really vague to me too.
I think Keeper (Yeah, there's no way I know how to spell her name...) Mare-eh-tharr-ee says that before you go into the fade. Because I think if you kill Feynriel in the Fade, he becomes Tranquil.
But there's a codex or something on the Tranquil of the Circle and how they get the brands on their forheads, but I don't remember which game it's in. Probably Origins, after you talk to the first Tranquil at Ostagar, with a possible update when you go to the Circle Tower and see what's-his-face on the second floor. I think Anders also briefly goes over the process when all that Karl stuff goes down.
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Posted: Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:25 am
brainnsoup Sanzolvr29 brainnsoup Yeah, or at least Anders was physically there. But his personality was completely overwhelmed by Justice. So if you killed him there, it would probably make Anders tranquil, right? Isn't that what they said happens to mages in the Fade? Maybe because the Fade is Justice's "home" gives him more control/power over Anders' body, whereas in Thedas it's vice versa. I can't comment about the Tranquil process, I barely remember it. Although what you said does sound vaguely familiar... Wait I think it's coming back... I believe a mage did become Tranquil if they were killed in the Fade but it's not the actual process they typically use to make mages Tranquil... Although I might be pulling things out my a** right now so don't take that to heart. Haha, no, I understand, it's all really vague to me too.
I think Keeper (Yeah, there's no way I know how to spell her name...) Mare-eh-tharr-ee says that before you go into the fade. Because I think if you kill Feynriel in the Fade, he becomes Tranquil.
But there's a codex or something on the Tranquil of the Circle and how they get the brands on their forheads, but I don't remember which game it's in. But Feynriel could be made tranquil because he was caught dreaming, while you and your party members were in the Fade due to the Keeper's ritual, so I'm thinking the ritual was designed to keep entrants from actually dying in the Fade.
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