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 Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 12:16 am
ok, so here is a conclusion i have come to. i am still doing research so this conclusion is bound to change. and evolve.
i have mostly been looking into demons and angels of catholic, jewish, and christian mythology.
and something isn't adding up, there are... things that i have to question.
where did the idea that all demons are evil come from?
where did the idea come from that demons where fallen angels?
when did satan take over hell and become a super beast?
from what i have gathered through reading various materials, articles, and such... and other ways.
demons are not angels or fallen angels, and are dominantly nuetral. and satan... satan is not the king of hell, he is a panzy compared the rulers of hell.
from what i have gathered, the 72 demons of the lesser key of solomon are the rulers and caretakers of hell. and 71 of them answer to the true King of hell Baal. the majority of these demons are neutral, some are good and few are evil.
Satan and his fallen angels where cast into hell to be punished. not to rule. Baal rules hell, and punishes satan and his followers. the demons under the 72 are the gaurds and enforcers of hell.
hell is not a fortress of evil, it is a place of punishment.
also Lucifer is not Satan, Lucifer before being considered Satan, was a being of change. one minute good, the next evil. he brings change. and no he did not rebel against god.
also... demons and the 72 where in hell before the first fallen angels where sent there... they had to be to punish the fallen angels. thus... i believe that Demons are not and should not be considered fallen angels.
hmm... i could go on a bit more... but i lost my train of thought... so i am going to ask a question.
why would god order solomon to imprison the 72 masters of hell and there legions of demons, the only ones gaurding satan and his fallen angels... why would god do this? why, thats basically giving satan power... basically saying here satan rule over hell with your fallen angels, train more, and send them out to torment people under the name demon. why would he order this?
hmm... i know how to get me back on thought, ask me questions... and i will answer to the best of my ability... and if things change or i learn more i will say so.
yes... questions are required to help me get back on thought.
and if you wish to correct me on things, do so. i need to know all views.
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:45 am
Demons are just angels that disobeyed God and went to Hell. It doesn't mean they're evil but some are. Some just don't like how God runs things. For that though they should be considered evil.
Demons are fallen angels because they were on the side of God at one point but Satan rebelled against God and fell from Heaven and so did a third of the angelic host joined his insurrection.
God created Lucifer as a perfect angel. Lucifer, God, and Jesus Christ were very close. They would meet up all the time in perfect harmony to make plans and other things. Though one day just God and Jesus Christ had a meeting just between them and Lucifer found out and got jealous. He was so proud in himself that he made a campaign to prove he was above God and he persuaded angels to worship him and not God. God tried to let him repent but he wouldn't admit that he was wrong. God felt he could no longer influence him and kicked him and the third of the angels that had worshiped him out of Heaven about 6,000 years ago. As Lucifer was in Hell his new name became Satan.
Also I believe Satan is the ruler of Hell. The demons all have jobs though some controlling different sides of hell but Satan is the " leader ". He did rebel against God though.
God ordered Solomon to imprison the seventy-two masters of Hell and there legions of demons because none the less they still would've done what they've done. He just needed a place to put Lucifer and his "demons" so he chose Hell. Also Satan already had power, he was so filled with jealousy and pride that he still would have done this because if he kept Lucifer in Heaven nothing would have happened like God said he could no longer influence and try to let Lucifer repent. He was to prided to admit he was not right. With that Hell is their prison whether they train or not it wasn't gods word saying " Lucifer here is your prison train ". Lucifer and his angels of course were going to act as "demons" because they got kicked out Heaven and no longer are under gods worship they were under Satan's and if Satan feels they should reek havoc and be bad and sin then his follower and worshipers are going to agree and do as he does.
If you have any other questions please ask them. If you see any flaws in what I am saying please point them out.
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:13 pm
Kodak l Demons are just angels that disobeyed God and went to Hell. It doesn't mean they're evil but some are. Some just don't like how God runs things. For that though they should be considered evil. Demons are fallen angels because they were on the side of God at one point but Satan rebelled against God and fell from Heaven and so did a third of the angelic host joined his insurrection. God created Lucifer as a perfect angel. Lucifer, God, and Jesus Christ were very close. They would meet up all the time in perfect harmony to make plans and other things. Though one day just God and Jesus Christ had a meeting just between them and Lucifer found out and got jealous. He was so proud in himself that he made a campaign to prove he was above God and he persuaded angels to worship him and not God. God tried to let him repent but he wouldn't admit that he was wrong. God felt he could no longer influence him and kicked him and the third of the angels that had worshiped him out of Heaven about 6,000 years ago. As Lucifer was in Hell his new name became Satan. Also I believe Satan is the ruler of Hell. The demons all have jobs though some controlling different sides of hell but Satan is the " leader ". He did rebel against God though. God ordered Solomon to imprison the seventy-two masters of Hell and there legions of demons because none the less they still would've done what they've done. He just needed a place to put Lucifer and his "demons" so he chose Hell. Also Satan already had power, he was so filled with jealousy and pride that he still would have done this because if he kept Lucifer in Heaven nothing would have happened like God said he could no longer influence and try to let Lucifer repent. He was to prided to admit he was not right. With that Hell is their prison whether they train or not it wasn't gods word saying " Lucifer here is your prison train ". Lucifer and his angels of course were going to act as "demons" because they got kicked out Heaven and no longer are under gods worship they were under Satan's and if Satan feels they should reek havoc and be bad and sin then his follower and worshipers are going to agree and do as he does. If you have any other questions please ask them. If you see any flaws in what I am saying please point them out. i read that it was a misinterpretation that labeled Lucifer and Satan as the same person, and this was never fixed. also, satan and his angels fell about 6,000 years ago... yet the 72 masters of hell, and hell itself where around before that... also Baal is the lord and high king of hell, he was entitled with the job of keeping it running. also... god seems kind of like a control freak from what i hear... imprisoning the 72 just because they don't 100% agree with him... wether or not they are good or evil... that seems like a d**k move. some of the 72 where 100% good and just tried to help people yet they where imprisoned, this is cruel and unjust. also, they where always demons never angels so that doesn't add up with the fallen angels being the same as demons. i understand imprisoning the evil demons of the 72. but let the good ones, and the dominantly neutral ones go, or at least punish them accordingly for there crimes. and... funny, Satan is not one of the 72, that means... and the Baal is the high king of hell, and the other 71 demons... that means the 71 only answer to Baal. and Baal does not answer to Satan. and Satan fallen or not, is an angel not a demon. although... i have looked in demonology i have to admit my knowledge on the bible and such is limited, the last time i read any part of it was when i was 7. also the time that i told catholicism to go to hell.
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Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:34 pm
The gods of the old religion become the devils of the new religion. This can account for a lot of the "demons" in medieval grimoires. The fall of Lucifer is something that John Milton came up with in Paradise Lost and is not canon. There's not really any connection in the Bible between Lucifer and Satan, if I'm remembering correctly. It seems to be just an inference. Lucifer is the Light Bearer and Satan is the Adversary. Satan is apparently also Legion, implying that Satan is not a single being but an adversarial force consisting of many entities.
You could benefit from looking at the history of daemons and demons and how they've evolved through human history. It may even be worth your while to do some evocation and just ask them yourself.
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:09 am
Obscurus The gods of the old religion become the devils of the new religion. This can account for a lot of the "demons" in medieval grimoires. The fall of Lucifer is something that John Milton came up with in Paradise Lost and is not canon. There's not really any connection in the Bible between Lucifer and Satan, if I'm remembering correctly. It seems to be just an inference. Lucifer is the Light Bearer and Satan is the Adversary. Satan is apparently also Legion, implying that Satan is not a single being but an adversarial force consisting of many entities. You could benefit from looking at the history of daemons and demons and how they've evolved through human history. It may even be worth your while to do some evocation and just ask them yourself. i plan on some evocation, in time. there someone i wish to talk to again in order to clarify a few things. i remember saying Satan and lucifer are not the same being and it being misinterpretation that they are considered the same in modern christianity and catholicism and the like. i have never heard of Satan being multiple entities though... that is interesting, i might have to look into that after i am done researching the solomonic demons some more.
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 3:08 am
Arcane_Ninja24 Kodak l Demons are just angels that disobeyed God and went to Hell. It doesn't mean they're evil but some are. Some just don't like how God runs things. For that though they should be considered evil. Demons are fallen angels because they were on the side of God at one point but Satan rebelled against God and fell from Heaven and so did a third of the angelic host joined his insurrection. God created Lucifer as a perfect angel. Lucifer, God, and Jesus Christ were very close. They would meet up all the time in perfect harmony to make plans and other things. Though one day just God and Jesus Christ had a meeting just between them and Lucifer found out and got jealous. He was so proud in himself that he made a campaign to prove he was above God and he persuaded angels to worship him and not God. God tried to let him repent but he wouldn't admit that he was wrong. God felt he could no longer influence him and kicked him and the third of the angels that had worshiped him out of Heaven about 6,000 years ago. As Lucifer was in Hell his new name became Satan. Also I believe Satan is the ruler of Hell. The demons all have jobs though some controlling different sides of hell but Satan is the " leader ". He did rebel against God though. God ordered Solomon to imprison the seventy-two masters of Hell and there legions of demons because none the less they still would've done what they've done. He just needed a place to put Lucifer and his "demons" so he chose Hell. Also Satan already had power, he was so filled with jealousy and pride that he still would have done this because if he kept Lucifer in Heaven nothing would have happened like God said he could no longer influence and try to let Lucifer repent. He was to prided to admit he was not right. With that Hell is their prison whether they train or not it wasn't gods word saying " Lucifer here is your prison train ". Lucifer and his angels of course were going to act as "demons" because they got kicked out Heaven and no longer are under gods worship they were under Satan's and if Satan feels they should reek havoc and be bad and sin then his follower and worshipers are going to agree and do as he does. If you have any other questions please ask them. If you see any flaws in what I am saying please point them out. i read that it was a misinterpretation that labeled Lucifer and Satan as the same person, and this was never fixed. also, satan and his angels fell about 6,000 years ago... yet the 72 masters of hell, and hell itself where around before that... also Baal is the lord and high king of hell, he was entitled with the job of keeping it running. also... god seems kind of like a control freak from what i hear... imprisoning the 72 just because they don't 100% agree with him... wether or not they are good or evil... that seems like a d**k move. some of the 72 where 100% good and just tried to help people yet they where imprisoned, this is cruel and unjust. also, they where always demons never angels so that doesn't add up with the fallen angels being the same as demons. i understand imprisoning the evil demons of the 72. but let the good ones, and the dominantly neutral ones go, or at least punish them accordingly for there crimes. and... funny, Satan is not one of the 72, that means... and the Baal is the high king of hell, and the other 71 demons... that means the 71 only answer to Baal. and Baal does not answer to Satan. and Satan fallen or not, is an angel not a demon. although... i have looked in demonology i have to admit my knowledge on the bible and such is limited, the last time i read any part of it was when i was 7. also the time that i told catholicism to go to hell. None of what you're saying is Biblical. :l (and by the way, i'm still working on my response to the other topic you replied to me in. its a lot of info)
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:45 am
Arcane_Ninja24 ok, so here is a conclusion i have come to. i am still doing research so this conclusion is bound to change. and evolve. i have mostly been looking into demons and angels of catholic, jewish, and christian mythology. and something isn't adding up, there are... things that i have to question. where did the idea that all demons are evil come from? where did the idea come from that demons where fallen angels? when did satan take over hell and become a super beast? from what i have gathered through reading various materials, articles, and such... and other ways. demons are not angels or fallen angels, and are dominantly nuetral. and satan... satan is not the king of hell, he is a panzy compared the rulers of hell. from what i have gathered, the 72 demons of the lesser key of solomon are the rulers and caretakers of hell. and 71 of them answer to the true King of hell Baal. the majority of these demons are neutral, some are good and few are evil. Satan and his fallen angels where cast into hell to be punished. not to rule. Baal rules hell, and punishes satan and his followers. the demons under the 72 are the gaurds and enforcers of hell. hell is not a fortress of evil, it is a place of punishment. also Lucifer is not Satan, Lucifer before being considered Satan, was a being of change. one minute good, the next evil. he brings change. and no he did not rebel against god. also... demons and the 72 where in hell before the first fallen angels where sent there... they had to be to punish the fallen angels. thus... i believe that Demons are not and should not be considered fallen angels. hmm... i could go on a bit more... but i lost my train of thought... so i am going to ask a question. why would god order solomon to imprison the 72 masters of hell and there legions of demons, the only ones gaurding satan and his fallen angels... why would god do this? why, thats basically giving satan power... basically saying here satan rule over hell with your fallen angels, train more, and send them out to torment people under the name demon. why would he order this? hmm... i know how to get me back on thought, ask me questions... and i will answer to the best of my ability... and if things change or i learn more i will say so. yes... questions are required to help me get back on thought. and if you wish to correct me on things, do so. i need to know all views. First off I would like to say that I read a lot on this topic and have never herd of half the things you are talking of. I'm not calling you wrong, but I would like to see your sources. Isaiah 14:12 in the Bible talks about Satan being cast into hell, along with 1/3 of all the angels, for trying to exalt himself above God. Trying to place yourself above God is an evil act, which is also the theme of the fall of the tower of babel in the Bible. So why did God fling him down here so that he could reap havoc on our lives? Well that answers simple: Satan tried to be above God, but he obviously lacked the power to be as such. Well what does that mean? That means that even though Satan is considered the god of earth, God is considered to God of all. It is possible that God just uses him to test us. Satan really has no other choice considering there is and all knowing God in the sky ready to smite him at any moment. This is where your argument and my argument clash: You can't prove either side. All of this is spiritual and cannot be seen, if it even exists. So, please, I know that we may believe or be searching for different answers, but let me know what you think.
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 9:22 pm
1 Corinthians 13 Arcane_Ninja24 ok, so here is a conclusion i have come to. i am still doing research so this conclusion is bound to change. and evolve. i have mostly been looking into demons and angels of catholic, jewish, and christian mythology. and something isn't adding up, there are... things that i have to question. where did the idea that all demons are evil come from? where did the idea come from that demons where fallen angels? when did satan take over hell and become a super beast? from what i have gathered through reading various materials, articles, and such... and other ways. demons are not angels or fallen angels, and are dominantly nuetral. and satan... satan is not the king of hell, he is a panzy compared the rulers of hell. from what i have gathered, the 72 demons of the lesser key of solomon are the rulers and caretakers of hell. and 71 of them answer to the true King of hell Baal. the majority of these demons are neutral, some are good and few are evil. Satan and his fallen angels where cast into hell to be punished. not to rule. Baal rules hell, and punishes satan and his followers. the demons under the 72 are the gaurds and enforcers of hell. hell is not a fortress of evil, it is a place of punishment. also Lucifer is not Satan, Lucifer before being considered Satan, was a being of change. one minute good, the next evil. he brings change. and no he did not rebel against god. also... demons and the 72 where in hell before the first fallen angels where sent there... they had to be to punish the fallen angels. thus... i believe that Demons are not and should not be considered fallen angels. hmm... i could go on a bit more... but i lost my train of thought... so i am going to ask a question. why would god order solomon to imprison the 72 masters of hell and there legions of demons, the only ones gaurding satan and his fallen angels... why would god do this? why, thats basically giving satan power... basically saying here satan rule over hell with your fallen angels, train more, and send them out to torment people under the name demon. why would he order this? hmm... i know how to get me back on thought, ask me questions... and i will answer to the best of my ability... and if things change or i learn more i will say so. yes... questions are required to help me get back on thought. and if you wish to correct me on things, do so. i need to know all views. First off I would like to say that I read a lot on this topic and have never herd of half the things you are talking of. I'm not calling you wrong, but I would like to see your sources. Isaiah 14:12 in the Bible talks about Satan being cast into hell, along with 1/3 of all the angels, for trying to exalt himself above God. Trying to place yourself above God is an evil act, which is also the theme of the fall of the tower of babel in the Bible. So why did God fling him down here so that he could reap havoc on our lives? Well that answers simple: Satan tried to be above God, but he obviously lacked the power to be as such. Well what does that mean? That means that even though Satan is considered the god of earth, God is considered to God of all. It is possible that God just uses him to test us. Satan really has no other choice considering there is and all knowing God in the sky ready to smite him at any moment. This is where your argument and my argument clash: You can't prove either side. All of this is spiritual and cannot be seen, if it even exists. So, please, I know that we may believe or be searching for different answers, but let me know what you think. what i think about what? please be a bit more specific.. what i think about all of this? my beliefs? what i think about demons? what i think about Satan? what i think about God? what? if you wish to know my beliefs, please PM me, i wish to not clutter this topic with it.
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Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:19 pm
So... It seems to me that you're getting a lot of information from one source. Read the Bible for a different perspective. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that part of research is looking at viewpoints from different opposing beliefs.
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Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:28 am
Amras Tasatir So... It seems to me that you're getting a lot of information from one source. Read the Bible for a different perspective. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that part of research is looking at viewpoints from different opposing beliefs. yeah I kind of noticed that. It really isn't good to get all of your information from the same source and it is good practice to read the primary source when researching.
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 10:58 pm
Amras Tasatir So... It seems to me that you're getting a lot of information from one source. Read the Bible for a different perspective. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that part of research is looking at viewpoints from different opposing beliefs. i did read the bible... but that was quite a few years ago XD
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 7:20 am
Arcane_Ninja24 Amras Tasatir So... It seems to me that you're getting a lot of information from one source. Read the Bible for a different perspective. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that part of research is looking at viewpoints from different opposing beliefs. i did read the bible... but that was quite a few years ago XD ha, I doubt it's very fresh in your memory. Not trying to offend you, just saying I certainly wouldn't remember much.
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Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:19 pm
Amras Tasatir Arcane_Ninja24 Amras Tasatir So... It seems to me that you're getting a lot of information from one source. Read the Bible for a different perspective. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that part of research is looking at viewpoints from different opposing beliefs. i did read the bible... but that was quite a few years ago XD ha, I doubt it's very fresh in your memory. Not trying to offend you, just saying I certainly wouldn't remember much. yeah... its not very fresh in the memory XD plus... the bible really isn't something that interests me.. Norse mythology is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy better in my opinion... and from what i found its way deeper... also... demonology required that i look into christian/catholic mythology... otherwise i probably wouldn't have looked back at the bible...
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:23 am
Arcane_Ninja24 Amras Tasatir Arcane_Ninja24 Amras Tasatir So... It seems to me that you're getting a lot of information from one source. Read the Bible for a different perspective. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that part of research is looking at viewpoints from different opposing beliefs. i did read the bible... but that was quite a few years ago XD ha, I doubt it's very fresh in your memory. Not trying to offend you, just saying I certainly wouldn't remember much. yeah... its not very fresh in the memory XD plus... the bible really isn't something that interests me.. Norse mythology is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy better in my opinion... and from what i found its way deeper... also... demonology required that i look into christian/catholic mythology... otherwise i probably wouldn't have looked back at the bible... I understand. You don't care enough about your research. Makes sense. From the way you started this topic, I thought you were interested enough to look from all angles. Plus the Bible perfectly explains everything you asked about.
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Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:24 pm
Amras Tasatir Arcane_Ninja24 Amras Tasatir Arcane_Ninja24 Amras Tasatir So... It seems to me that you're getting a lot of information from one source. Read the Bible for a different perspective. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying that part of research is looking at viewpoints from different opposing beliefs. i did read the bible... but that was quite a few years ago XD ha, I doubt it's very fresh in your memory. Not trying to offend you, just saying I certainly wouldn't remember much. yeah... its not very fresh in the memory XD plus... the bible really isn't something that interests me.. Norse mythology is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy better in my opinion... and from what i found its way deeper... also... demonology required that i look into christian/catholic mythology... otherwise i probably wouldn't have looked back at the bible... I understand. You don't care enough about your research. Makes sense. From the way you started this topic, I thought you were interested enough to look from all angles. Plus the Bible perfectly explains everything you asked about. ok. a few things. 1st, i started this topic primarily to test something. and secondarily to get multiple views and opinions on it to span my research. 2nd, demonology spans over many styles and topics and areas of demons through all mythological backgrounds, not just catholicism, christianity, and jewdaism. 3rd, Demonology is one of the many many many areas i am researching into, so if it would seem i don't care enough about my research, chances are thats because i am also looking into so many other topics in different areas. 4th, i am interested enough to look from all angles, and i try to. but as i said i have multiple areas i am looking into and multiple topics i am looking into. just because i haven't looked over the bible in awhile, doesn't mean that i am not going to, or that i don't care about my research enough. 5th, Demonology is the lesser of two things i am researching. 6th, Demonology requires i look at the bible, so i did look back at it briefly, and i am also going to get back into looking at it in time. i also didn't consider that the bible is the most important thing to look at for info on demons, because demons have been around in mythology, long before the bible was even a though. so, you think i don't care enough about my research?
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