Welcome to Gaia! ::

Recently I engaged a user in a thread about Christians in the M&R. I know, how likely is it that a thread about Christians being jerks or something is in there. So, he made a bunch of generalizations about Americans and American Christians in general. His argument was that the American Dream is ant-teachings of Christ. The American Dream, from what I understand it, is the pursuit of Life, Liberty, and Happiness. His version seemed to imply that the American Dream was all about making huge wads of money and not caring about anyone else.

So, as Christians, some of you being from America, what do you think of this?

He might be thinking of "a chicken in every pot, and two cars in every garage" which would be basic materialism and yes opposed to Christianity.

But life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is not opposed to the core of Christianity. All three are based on humanistic principles which derive from Christian teachings. The founder of Humanism was a Catholic priest who wanted to reform the Church and was unashamed at pointing out of these problems.

Now all Christians fall short and that's a big part of the religion. We are human and we do some pretty nasty things to each other, but the hope in that we can recover and reform and be potential saints. "Churches are not a museum for saints but a hospital for sinners"

Next much of the Good that Christians do goes unnoticed mostly because it's not sensational and the media can't sell it. What does get reported is how horrible we are and how cruel we are... hmm sounds almost like being in a 1700s Puritan Church XD

There's definitely a large variety, and no room to stereotype. I know quite a few good, honest Christians that will go out of their way to help others and spread the word of their faith in doing so. It's pretty easy to respect the people that do that. Then you have quite a few of them that will spread the word, but not actually help people. I refer to that as ineffective Christianity. And of course there are quite a few who adopt Christianity to benefit their public image: people that go to church on Sunday, call out a few hallelujas and spend the rest of the week doing what they please, regardless of their alleged faith (excessive drinking, cheating on the spouse, robbing innocent people of their homes and assets over because a profit based stipulation was identified in a loophole that allowed them to get away with it.) Stuff like that. It just doesn't seem a very Christian thing to do when you find a way to make a buck kicking other Christians and theier families out of their home. In fact, I'd say that's downright nasty business. Most of the actual Christian businesses I know (which are often very successful) actually help people, and they don't exploit opportunities that hurt people in order to make a buck. And they make up for that extra dollar lost by earning people's trust and developinig valued customers that will keep coming back. Because they're found a business they can trust.

And it is sad how the good things people do doesn't get anywhere near as publicised as the bad things. I don't watch the news, because it's always bad stuff. If they had a news channel where they actually talked about the little things people did that made life and the community better, I would watch that. Until then, no news for me.

And the American dream is very much open to interpretation. We each define it for ourselves, which is why I think so many people love it. You can make your dream, and then pursue that dream. And if all goes well, make that dream come true. If your dream is to be the best Chriatian you can be, and it makes you happy, then it's all one and the same in my opinion.

This is pretty much what the idea was, if you wouldn't mind taking a look, it's david platt, a preacher about this book radical
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoicm4wnQ4c

His argument is fallacial much? Has Jesus told anyone that they can not do for themselves? Is there anything in the American Dream, even his version, that says you must solely advance yourself and not others so that they are not garbage eating invalids? Is there anything that shows that American Christians are not Christian?

I watched three minutes of it and he does a lot of hissing, but no substance other than a Americans suck vibe.
I'm a guy who agrees with him, and I'm a big time patriot, i drove 3 hours each way to vote when i turned 18, we fly a flag at our house, and I love this land, and would gladly die for it, but to follow christ entials doing what he says, if you love someone you'll obey them right, Mathew 7:22-23 says not everyone who says to me, Lord Lord! will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the ones who do the will of My father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, drive out demons in your name, do many miracles in your name? then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers.
and as for doing for themselves, Mathew 6:19-21 Don't collect for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. But collect for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves don't break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also
for christians, if you don't follow christ and do what he said, and be like him, are you still a christian?

I'm a guy who agrees with him, and I'm a big time patriot, i drove 3 hours each way to vote when i turned 18, we fly a flag at our house, and I love this land, and would gladly die for it, but to follow christ entials doing what he says, if you love someone you'll obey them right, Mathew 7:22-23 says not everyone who says to me, Lord Lord! will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the ones who do the will of My father in heaven. On that day many will say to me, Lord Lord, didn't we prophesy in your name, drive out demons in your name, do many miracles in your name? then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers.
and as for doing for themselves, Mathew 6:19-21 Don't collect for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal. But collect for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys, and where thieves don't break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also
for christians, if you don't follow christ and do what he said, and be like him, are you still a christian?...what does that have to do with the United States? If you're saying that it's wrong to have property, guess what? Every country in the world has property owners.

This is where I had to sit down and really think about it. I love my collections of stuff and I love my family too. But what's really important to me? I started asking myself what I would do, or how I would react to losing each of these. Well, when it came to each of my things, I figured I could just replace it at convenience, and that there was no real impact on whether it was important or not. Even if the house burns down, I'd just have to build or buy another one. Not that big a deal really. But when it comes to family, or other people I love, losing them is actually hurtful, and I would chose loosing everything before losing my family, so I think I'm straight on that issue. I still admit, I love my stuff, but I came to realize true love and material love are and should be two different things. And material love should never trump the love of others. Even as an athesit I can see that. And the concept of God in the matter isn't really all that foreign to me. Loving my father is a concept that hits quite close to home actually. And I know a lot of Christians who are well off. Some own their own businesses. Many of them value that it is more important to teach a man to fish, than to just give him a fish. They may have a lot of money, but the way they see it (and I agree with them) is that just giving away money is lazy, and is not the work God wants them to do. They use their money to take care of their family and as a means to carry out God's work. Because of their money, they can travel far and wide, and everywhere their business goes, so does the gospel they carry. And they share that gospel everywhere they go. They use their money to make some offerings, sure. They have given gifts to total strangers, but in doing so, they have invoked curiosity in those strangers. They show them they are generous, but they do so in speaking of the Lord. It makes clear to those whom they are giving that their actions are a part of something bigger. The free handout is usually followed by a teaching or lesson of God, and in most cases the person being gifted becomes quite interested. Some walk away with what they got, not interested in anything else, but I think people see the example they are making in their actions, and they are attracted to what they see God doing in their lives. It's then that the teaching how to fish prospect comes into play. They will invite people to church and start sharing what a Godly life is to people. It's actually done a number on turning people's lives around for the better, and I'm grateful to have been a witness to that.

Gjornia, some would say the American Dream is simply having the freedom to live just the way you described and believe as you do without anyone telling you that you're wrong, you're beliefs are odd, or anything like that.

I'm not saying you are wrong or your beliefs are odd and I hope it doesn't sound that way. I was just pointing out that being rich and famous or anything like that doesn't seem to me like what the founders of this country had in mind considering the fact that their primary goal was simply to achieve freedom and many of them were in fact generous poor people themselves.