Prayer

[Aakosir]

So last night my mom said something that made my jaw drop. I never expected to hear this from her, but she said "prayers don't work. I have been praying for four years and nothing has changed."

Of course, I told her maybe she was praying to the wrong god. XP So then she asks about who else would there be to pray to, since she's kind of in denial about me being pagan.

So, does prayer with no action work?

Do we place too much power in prayer?

Does praying encourage a lack of ambition in some?

I feel that prayer with action work best. How are we just going to sit around annd expect something to happen? The gods aren't going to be happy granting our prayers if we're just sitting there waiting for them to answer.  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

This is one of those things I just don't understand - the assumption that prayer is asking for something. Prayer is conversation or a form of communion with deity - you don't have to ask for anything. In fact if you only pray when you want something it's no wonder you don't get anything; if I had a friend who only called me when they wanted something I wouldn't be all that keen to help her either.  

[rmcdra]

Aakosir

So, does prayer with no action work?

Do we place too much power in prayer?

Does praying encourage a lack of ambition in some?

No. One's hands do not have to be clasped to pray. One can act while praying.

Most equate prayer with magical thinking and leave it as that. If used in this regard, then yes one putting too much power in prayer.

Some yes, but for some it motivate action. It depends on the person and how they use prayer.  

[Aakosir]

Sanguina Cruenta

This is one of those things I just don't understand - the assumption that prayer is asking for something. Prayer is conversation or a form of communion with deity - you don't have to ask for anything. In fact if you only pray when you want something it's no wonder you don't get anything; if I had a friend who only called me when they wanted something I wouldn't be all that keen to help her either.

That's a good way to put it because I know someone exactly like that. She dropped off the face of the earth and I only hear from her when she needs help. So yea, I can see why there would be no help. But what if the person is constantly pestering you for help? This would be similar to my mom, praying every night for something. I don't think she does much to change things for herself, either.

@ rmcdra - It's hard since there is no manual to prayer. I can imagine a lot of people are like my mom and expect everything to be handed to them with little or no work. Or, they use it as a "poor me" excuse so they still look good by saying "it's not working". I can see a lot of different abuses for praying.  

[Tiina Brown]

Four years?
When i frequently prayed, i prayed for noticeably more than four years .... and just got ... very little.

There are only two kinds of occasions, when i have actually gotten substantial help:
When i have given up, truly, completely!
And
When i have been truly able to do something myself.

Talking about contradictions, hm?

Hm, there may be a point in simply talking to God, and it is ok to do it anywhere, at work, on a party, while surfing(net or water don't matter), or even while on the toilet!
Yes, i do mean the last.
Why?
God is said to be everpresent, within everyone and everything, so God has then seen you at your worst, dirtiest, and naughtiest .....and to me, it seems that God don't mind about that.

You are who you are, and God knows that.
......
I'd better stop, this is enough "preacher mode" from me for now ....
Sorry if i went a bit off .....  

[rmcdra]

Aakosir

@ rmcdra - It's hard since there is no manual to prayer. I can imagine a lot of people are like my mom and expect everything to be handed to them with little or no work. Or, they use it as a "poor me" excuse so they still look good by saying "it's not working". I can see a lot of different abuses for praying.

I understand that but there at least 5, if not more, types of prayers recognized in Christian tradition. What you have effectively described is prayers of petition. While the most common, it is considered the lowest form of prayer and requires an individual to do something on their side of the field to actually bring about this petition. Unfortunately, many regard this as "wish vending" and are for some reason surprised that their prayers are not answered yet did nothing on their part to get the ball rolling. If your Mom's prayers aren't being answered you might want to ask here what she is doing to help her God answer prayers since the Christian God pretty much expects his followers to help those that pray to him. Now this doesn't mean do x, get y, but more of like if she is praying for x to happen what is she doing to make x happen on her end, is she lowering her pride and asking others to help her with prayers for x, and is she helping others get their prayers answered.  

[rosadria]

God promised Paul that he would survive the shipwreck, but Paul still had to swim.

I can't recall when someone prayed in the sitting position in the Bible.  

[Tiina Brown]

rmcdra

Aakosir

@ rmcdra - It's hard since there is no manual to prayer. I can imagine a lot of people are like my mom and expect everything to be handed to them with little or no work. Or, they use it as a "poor me" excuse so they still look good by saying "it's not working". I can see a lot of different abuses for praying.

I understand that but there at least 5, if not more, types of prayers recognized in Christian tradition. What you have effectively described is prayers of petition. While the most common, it is considered the lowest form of prayer and requires an individual to do something on their side of the field to actually bring about this petition. Unfortunately, many regard this as "wish vending" and are for some reason surprised that their prayers are not answered yet did nothing on their part to get the ball rolling. If your Mom's prayers aren't being answered you might want to ask here what she is doing to help her God answer prayers since the Christian God pretty much expects his followers to help those that pray to him. Now this doesn't mean do x, get y, but more of like if she is praying for x to happen what is she doing to make x happen on her end, is she lowering her pride and asking others to help her with prayers for x, and is she helping others get their prayers answered.

This makes me curious:
What are the other types of prayers?  

[rmcdra]

Tiina Brown

rmcdra

Aakosir

@ rmcdra - It's hard since there is no manual to prayer. I can imagine a lot of people are like my mom and expect everything to be handed to them with little or no work. Or, they use it as a "poor me" excuse so they still look good by saying "it's not working". I can see a lot of different abuses for praying.

I understand that but there at least 5, if not more, types of prayers recognized in Christian tradition. What you have effectively described is prayers of petition. While the most common, it is considered the lowest form of prayer and requires an individual to do something on their side of the field to actually bring about this petition. Unfortunately, many regard this as "wish vending" and are for some reason surprised that their prayers are not answered yet did nothing on their part to get the ball rolling. If your Mom's prayers aren't being answered you might want to ask here what she is doing to help her God answer prayers since the Christian God pretty much expects his followers to help those that pray to him. Now this doesn't mean do x, get y, but more of like if she is praying for x to happen what is she doing to make x happen on her end, is she lowering her pride and asking others to help her with prayers for x, and is she helping others get their prayers answered.

This makes me curious:
What are the other types of prayers?

From about.catholic.com

1. Adoration
In prayers of adoration or worship, we praise the greatness of God, and we acknowledge our dependence on him in all things. The Mass and the other liturgies of the Church are full of prayers of this sort, such as the Gloria (or Glory to God). Among private prayers, the Act of Faith is a prayer of adoration.

2. Expiation
In a prayer of expiation or contrition, we acknowledge our sinfulness and ask God for His forgiveness and mercy. The Confiteor or Penitential Rite at the beginning of Mass, and the Agnus Dei (or Lamb of God) before Communion, are prayers of expiation, as is the Act of Contrition.

3. Love
Prayers of love or charity are just that—expressions of our love for God, the source and object of all love. The Act of Charity is perhaps the best example of a prayer of love.

4. Petition
Prayers of petition are the type of prayer we are most familiar with. In them, we ask God for things we need—primarily spiritual needs, but physical ones as well. Our prayers of petition should always include a statement of our willingness to accept God's will, whether He directly answers our prayer or not. The Our Father is a good example of a prayer of petition, and the line "Thy will be done" shows that, in the end, we acknowledge that God's plans for us are more important than what we desire.

5. Thanksgiving
Perhaps the most neglected type of prayer is prayer of thanksgiving. While Grace Before Meals is a good example of a prayer of thanksgiving, we should get into the habit of thanking God throughout the day for the good things that happen to us and to others.
/end list

Not included in this list is contemplative prayers and transcendental meditative (centering) prayers. Those are the types that I know of in Christian Tradition.  

[Tiina Brown]

rmcdra

Tiina Brown

This makes me curious:
What are the other types of prayers?

From about.catholic.com

1. Adoration
In prayers of adoration or worship, we praise the greatness of God, and we acknowledge our dependence on him in all things. The Mass and the other liturgies of the Church are full of prayers of this sort, such as the Gloria (or Glory to God). Among private prayers, the Act of Faith is a prayer of adoration.

2. Expiation
In a prayer of expiation or contrition, we acknowledge our sinfulness and ask God for His forgiveness and mercy. The Confiteor or Penitential Rite at the beginning of Mass, and the Agnus Dei (or Lamb of God) before Communion, are prayers of expiation, as is the Act of Contrition.

3. Love
Prayers of love or charity are just that—expressions of our love for God, the source and object of all love. The Act of Charity is perhaps the best example of a prayer of love.

4. Petition
Prayers of petition are the type of prayer we are most familiar with. In them, we ask God for things we need—primarily spiritual needs, but physical ones as well. Our prayers of petition should always include a statement of our willingness to accept God's will, whether He directly answers our prayer or not. The Our Father is a good example of a prayer of petition, and the line "Thy will be done" shows that, in the end, we acknowledge that God's plans for us are more important than what we desire.

5. Thanksgiving
Perhaps the most neglected type of prayer is prayer of thanksgiving. While Grace Before Meals is a good example of a prayer of thanksgiving, we should get into the habit of thanking God throughout the day for the good things that happen to us and to others.
/end list

Not included in this list is contemplative prayers and transcendental meditative (centering) prayers. Those are the types that I know of in Christian Tradition.

Thank you.

Hmmm, so the Acts of Faith, Contrition, and Charity actually counts as prayers ....  

[rmcdra]

Tiina Brown

rmcdra

Tiina Brown

This makes me curious:
What are the other types of prayers?

From about.catholic.com

1. Adoration
In prayers of adoration or worship, we praise the greatness of God, and we acknowledge our dependence on him in all things. The Mass and the other liturgies of the Church are full of prayers of this sort, such as the Gloria (or Glory to God). Among private prayers, the Act of Faith is a prayer of adoration.

2. Expiation
In a prayer of expiation or contrition, we acknowledge our sinfulness and ask God for His forgiveness and mercy. The Confiteor or Penitential Rite at the beginning of Mass, and the Agnus Dei (or Lamb of God) before Communion, are prayers of expiation, as is the Act of Contrition.

3. Love
Prayers of love or charity are just that—expressions of our love for God, the source and object of all love. The Act of Charity is perhaps the best example of a prayer of love.

4. Petition
Prayers of petition are the type of prayer we are most familiar with. In them, we ask God for things we need—primarily spiritual needs, but physical ones as well. Our prayers of petition should always include a statement of our willingness to accept God's will, whether He directly answers our prayer or not. The Our Father is a good example of a prayer of petition, and the line "Thy will be done" shows that, in the end, we acknowledge that God's plans for us are more important than what we desire.

5. Thanksgiving
Perhaps the most neglected type of prayer is prayer of thanksgiving. While Grace Before Meals is a good example of a prayer of thanksgiving, we should get into the habit of thanking God throughout the day for the good things that happen to us and to others.
/end list

Not included in this list is contemplative prayers and transcendental meditative (centering) prayers. Those are the types that I know of in Christian Tradition.

Thank you.

Hmmm, so the Acts of Faith, Contrition, and Charity actually counts as prayers ....

They broadly define prayer as "a form of communication, a way of talking to God or to the saints. " Those would be acts you'd want to communicate to God in Christian tradition so they have them classified as such. I think there's something in the Catechism concerning prayers and their types. I'll have to dig more on it but right now is a busy morning XP. I get back if I find anything.  

[rmcdra]

there we go. Catechism of the Catholic Church Part 4 Section 1Contemplative prayer

Looks like centering prayer is a form of contemplative prayer. I thought it was different since there were US bishops making a fuss over centering prayers. Kinda figured they'd botch that since they used botched information to make their ruling on Reiki.  

[Zaige Delecroix]

I think that prayer is just a big waste of time. It is best to try to do things yourself rather than to pray to some God who may not be real and, if he is, might not give a damn.  

[Aakosir]

rmcdra

Aakosir

@ rmcdra - It's hard since there is no manual to prayer. I can imagine a lot of people are like my mom and expect everything to be handed to them with little or no work. Or, they use it as a "poor me" excuse so they still look good by saying "it's not working". I can see a lot of different abuses for praying.

I understand that but there at least 5, if not more, types of prayers recognized in Christian tradition. What you have effectively described is prayers of petition. While the most common, it is considered the lowest form of prayer and requires an individual to do something on their side of the field to actually bring about this petition. Unfortunately, many regard this as "wish vending" and are for some reason surprised that their prayers are not answered yet did nothing on their part to get the ball rolling. If your Mom's prayers aren't being answered you might want to ask here what she is doing to help her God answer prayers since the Christian God pretty much expects his followers to help those that pray to him. Now this doesn't mean do x, get y, but more of like if she is praying for x to happen what is she doing to make x happen on her end, is she lowering her pride and asking others to help her with prayers for x, and is she helping others get their prayers answered.

See, I knew there was more to it. It doesn't seem that many people are properly educated on the "correct" way to pray. They go to church, but are never really told what creates the best outcome. I do think my mom is using this as an excuse or at least a way to gain pity. But who knows, maybe she truly does think her prayers should have been answered and there's something wrong. You also can't correct her... So it would be difficult to bring up what she is/isn't doing to help herself.