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 Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:29 pm
Well, not really. That's where I had been thinking this idea could go, when I brought it up to Quint at the dev meet this afternoon - completely forgetting that [ JK ] was in-Crew. gonk Short story short, Otami Underworld is already accounted for. sweatdrop
Anyhow, the idea we were discussing was a progressive dungeon; something with various levels, that needed to be worked-through (it was being posed for the Durem clocktower, at the time) - which was very similar to how I'd imagined Otami Underworld (though I'll have to find a new spot for it, now).
Essentially, it's a 'dungeon' (more dungeon-like than most of our dungeons, to boot) with an infinite number of levels. Each floor would be a randomised maze; each room therein would have randomised contents, be they traps, normal enemies, chests (or mimics), or even a boss. Additionally, each floor would have a 'stairway' leading down to the floor below it.
Now, the lower the floor, the tougher the enemies, the more dangerous the traps, and the bigger the rewards. I'd pictured the first floor at about (or slightly over) normal Otami CL, but that could easily change with where it's placed. The only upper limit for it would be how long the crew survives; when every member of the crew dazes, they're booted back to the entrance (as usual).
It's actually not a complex concept, but it would need a lot of design work to keep it interesting; since it's naturally going to be repeating essentially the same challenges each time (though in a unpredictable order, each time), it would be important to ensure that each encounter (the traps, ambushes, and other events) is interesting enough to support that. Additionally, it'd be nice if the order that the encounters occurred in had some bearing (i.e. enemies with footspeed debuffs that make it harder to avoid traps, etc.), since that order's going to be the only significant thing that's changing. And, naturally, making the rewards worth the exploration. wink
It's worth considering giving each floor a 'boss', that's a requirement to get to the next floor (rather than distributing 'bosses' at random); but that seems to make it less about exploration (my intent) and more about fighting your way through (which is every instance made, to date). I think if that is important, I'd prefer the boss and the 'stairway' to be separated; that pushes the focus more back to exploring, since you could find either one first (the only problem being that it's pretty dull wandering back to the 'stairway' after you've cleared the floor sweatdrop ).
Anyhow, enough rambling; I know this is essentially Hive, with more stuff - but around here, we tend to like more stuff...
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Posted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:37 pm
I'm dragging you in (when you get a chance, of course) because I want your opinion on another aspect of this: Speed.
Do you think there'd be any sort of benefit to facilitating speed runs in this type of instance? Personally, it seems like it might be particularly exhilirating adding the rush on top of the exploration (because you're rushing, but you don't know where you're going), but there's a chance that it could just be frustrating, instead (because you're rushing, and you don't know where you're going). gonk
So, imagine sEB, but there's no way of knowing where the next chest is; and the farther you go, the more difficult it gets. More fun, or less? sweatdrop
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:48 am
Yeah, we could use a roguelike :V
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:50 am
This is sort of what I was thinking for my idea of a Gambini Tower. A really tall building and we have to work our way thru it to the penthouse office.
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:09 am
RafiCat This is sort of what I was thinking for my idea of a Gambini Tower. A really tall building and we have to work our way thru it to the penthouse office.
If you want it to be endless, though, you'd have to use the Gambino vault... wink
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Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:15 am
Red Kutai RafiCat This is sort of what I was thinking for my idea of a Gambini Tower. A really tall building and we have to work our way thru it to the penthouse office.
If you want it to be endless, though, you'd have to use the Gambino vault... wink
hehe, maybe when you get to the penthouse office, you find out that you actually need to go to the underground area, a series of basements, and sub basements. Deep into the ground. And when you finally arrive at the nethermost basement, you are sent back to the top... blaugh
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:25 pm
Reminds me of some other dungeons I've played.
Moraff's World (and it's sequel, Dungeons of the Unforgiven) had randomly constructed dungeons with progressively stronger monsters, and bosses on certain floors. Though I will grant that, with the RNG being seeded with a constant value, the default dungeon always seemed the same. In World, you had to go up to their "world map" and find a new dungeon if you wanted something totally randomized.
Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals (SNES version, not the DS remake) has a place called the Ancient Cave. 99 floors, but random floorplans every time. It has some other properties that probably wouldn't translate very well to zOMG, like resetting your party to level 1 when you enter. The only boss is at the very bottom. I've never finished this dungeon.
Star Ocean: The Second Story has a dungeon called the Cave of Trials (renamed Maze of Tribulations on the PSP remake). Each of its 13 floors is guarded by a strong boss, but there's also a different puzzle you have to solve to reach the stairs. It could be hitting a switch, or finding a secret passage. Or it could be giving a phony deity an upset stomach.
So really, there's plenty of material to draw from for this, and I most definitely approve. I'd say have only some floors have bosses, others have puzzles, and others you just have to track down the stairway. Maybe some floors could have a super-monster that you really don't want to fight. Something with just enough attack power to hit through full armor, but enough HP to withstand repeated reflects. A monster that, if you do manage to fight it and win, gives you absolutely nothing for your trouble! twisted
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:36 pm
Thard_Verad Reminds me of some other dungeons I've played.
Indeed; I knew it wasn't a completely original idea (or even vaguely original, for that matter), but I think zOMG! could pull it off reasonably well; and, even more importantly, I think it would offer a lot to the gameplay. Personally, I think this would be a lot more engaging than the Hive is, and the Hive already has a pretty strong fanbase.
Quote: So really, there's plenty of material to draw from for this, and I most definitely approve. I'd say have only some floors have bosses, others have puzzles, and others you just have to track down the stairway. Maybe some floors could have a super-monster that you really don't want to fight. Something with just enough attack power to hit through full armor, but enough HP to withstand repeated reflects. A monster that, if you do manage to fight it and win, gives you absolutely nothing for your trouble! twisted
Thinking about it a little further, we could pretty easily group floors by 'type' - have Maze Floors (which are about exploration, focusing on traps and ambushes), Puzzle Floors (which could be as simple as the EB switches, or something more complex), Boss Floors (which would require you to beat the boss to move on), and even just Killing Floors (no, I couldn't resist - these could be wide-open floors filled with legions of enemies). I do like the idea of the faux-boss, though - something that it really is better to run from, than fighting. As much as I personally enjoy zOMG!'s straightforward kill-everything-in-sight strategy, it's worth subverting it occasionally... whee
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Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:50 pm
You've just inspired yet another ... thing. Not sure exactly how to categorize it, but here goes!
Some sort of enemy that can be killed, but there's no reward for doing so, and there's never just one of them. When they appear, they always come in packs. Or swarms. This idea could work in the Expanded Hive, but there's no reason it can't also work here. Just an area with an endless supply of monsters, and fighting them is totally futile. Run, or be overwhelmed by their numbers.
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:00 pm
RafiCat This is sort of what I was thinking for my idea of a Gambini Tower. A really tall building and we have to work our way thru it to the penthouse office. Id never thought of a gambino tower D: That would be really fun! But unless Gaia decided to comission actual players, I don't see it happening in the foreseeable future.
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Liberal Conversationalist
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