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 Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:04 pm
As the active of you may have noticed, yesterday at around 1am gaia time I was demoted from vice captain.
A position I've held for nearly 5 years, and a position given to me, after nearly a year as the only active crew member in this guild.
When Nadnerb and H3X, the two original owners of this guild became inactive I started doing what I could to keep things running, and soon enough I was promoted to a crew member, so I could go about my duties unhindered.
Over the next year I spent my time leveling up skills on runescape, helping people where I could and keeping topics/debates and interesting threads going in the forums.
It was around this point that I talked to Nad about Airazor, our most active member (barring bombi) and someone who I believed would make a brilliant moderator. Nad promoted her on my word and she has since became an icon in her own right.
New features were constantly being released on both gaia and runecape and keeping up with them was no mean task.
Runescape released clan chat, and after I started up an alt character purely for clan chat, I took up the job of adding all the active members I could, which at that time, had topped the amount a runescape friendslist could hold.
Gaia released a few new features, and one I knew about thanks to being an owner of another (albeit inactive) guild was the ability to promote people to vice captain.
When nad learned about it, he promoted H3X and myself, if I remember correctly, to vice captain, at the time I wasn't sure if he was still planning to come back, or enjoyed the reputation being the owner of the guild brought, since any time he logged on, clan chat would go nuts with excitement, but I never questioned it. I was running the guild in my own way, and I was happy with how it was turning out. Whether or not I felt like I was putting the most into the guild or not, I didn't feel disheartened that Nad didn't hand me over the title of Guild Leader.
Besides, I was at the time happy to be a vice captain, because it meant I could go about my duties and it showed me the level of respect nad had for me, and my efforts for this guild.
It was a while after this, around the turn of 2009 that I became less and less active. I was turning 21 and I was struggling to keep a house, I was kicked out when my mothers boyfriend asked her to choose between us, and she picked him. So I spent a lot of time hopping from friends house to friends house, as I couldn't get on the emergency housing list.
Eventually, I found a house share with two of my friends, and a part time job that just about paid the bills.
When they offered me a position with more hours, I snapped it up, hoping to be able to save up some money, but I found all of it went on paying off debts I had accumulated whilst homeless.
Move on to 2010 and I was offered a position drumming for a death metal band called Ex inferis. It was a band that locally had a fair following, and I went to any of their gigs that I could. Honored, I accepted and in the space of 6 months, we've gone from having a small following, to being offered record contracts and various distribution deals on top of uk tours.
So if you're wondering why I don't post, there it is, my life story from guild to band.
Now, my problem is, Renette believes I shouldn't have the position of Vice Captain because I'm not active. Which I believe is a fair point. But I'd like to think that after all I've done for this guild, not out of anything but the love of a good community, and all of the friends I made, helped, and whom helped me I deserve the title Nadnerb gave me all those years ago.
I've tried to talk to Renette about this, and for those interested, there's a copy of my conversation with her underneath this in size 0 writing, simply quote this or copy and paste to read it, but either way, Renette will not re-promote me so I've decided to make this last thread, spend a week or two saying goodbye to all of my friends, and then I'll be leaving the guild.
Thanks for taking the time to read all of that.
For those that didn't... and want the short version, there isn't one. Sorry.
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:06 pm
I decided not to make it size 0, too much editing. so here's the quote.Duo__Maxwell So if for example, Nadnerb, the guy that created this guild was still a vice captain, for his lack of posts you'd kick him from the guild?
Renette, I don't know what exactly the problem is here, but I'm sorry, I don't see your point.
I ran this guild, for longer than you have now, I helped make this the best runescape guild there is on gaia, I started up the clan chat, I created accounts for that, I have done countless things for this guild, and the way I'm rewarded for my years of devotion to this game and this guild is by being demoted?
Have a look at all of these forums, every single one of them has my name in it somewhere on each front page.
If you think I'm not doing my job and as such we need more moderators, then it should be a case of hiring more. Having me a vice captain makes no difference to the amount of decent mods we could have.
I can agree that we may need more moderators, and I can agree I'm not active, but your argument lacks one thing. Human compassion.
Barring Airazor, I'd go as far as to say that I have done more for this guild than anyone else has. I've devoted more of my life to it then the vast majority of people and if anyone deserves a seat on the council of elders just for being old, wise, and an icon. It'd be me.
However, that's not your opinion and I don't believe no matter how reasoned my argument is, or how many times i tell you I helped create this guild, and if it wasn't for me, you wouldn't have a guild to run, you won't change your mind.
So allow me the dignity to post my thoughts on this in the general forum, and I'll be on my way.Renette We need more than ICONS in charge of the guild. We need people that are active and at the least communicate with the crew, if not the members. I'm sorry that you have been having troubles in your real life, I really do. Heck, in your absence, you could have suffered a debilitating disease or even death and we wouldn't even know. The only reason you're posting now is to demand your rank back. It's not like you don't log onto Gaia regularly - as you said, you lurk the guild. The guild needs active moderators, in both the forum and clan chat. I'm not doing this because I feel you're a threat to me. If I felt you were a threat, I'd kick you entirely. Just because you've been around for a while, I don't think you deserve to keep a title that you aren't fulfilling. Duo__Maxwell Vice captain was a title awarded to me after I ran this guild for years in stead of no H3X or Nadnerb.
Despite him not running the guild or being active, I never once asked to take nads title, or demote H3X. Reason being, they're icons in the guild.
I feel after the amount of my life I put into making this guild what it was I deserve my status. Whether or not I post is of no consequence. If you're currently trying to tell me I don't deserve the post because I don't post maybe you should look at my post count. I've contributed 3% of this entire guilds posts.
I created all of the sub catagories barring the goal subforum, I was the one that single handedly picked airazor as a crew member than went online to talk to Nab about him coming online for the first time in almost a year just so he could promote her, and look, she is still as dedicated as she once was.
I've spent my life recently working my rear end off trying to get my music career off the ground. I've been kicked out of my house and I had to find a job to carry on living, and I've now got a gorgeous girlfriend I was lucky to find. So I apologise if you think I've not posted regularly enough, but I've been fairly busy.
Now, I'm going to ask you one more time. Come to your senses, realise that promoting me to vice captain isn't a challenge to your authority, or a pompous demand.
But it's a request, from someone that put his blood and sweat into dragging this guild back from the brink of failure and spent as much time in his life as he could sorting out guild drama, righting wrongs in a fair and just manner, and doing anything he possibly could to help out a fellow guildie.
If you still don't think I deserve that spot, ask Magyk and Airazor to have a look at this thread. If they don't want me to have the spot, I'm happy to leave this guild.
Just please, don't confuse my actions. I love this guild. Renette You don't log onto Runescape at all, you don't post in the guild. You aren't active with any members. How can you do your job as a crew member, much less vice captain? Duo__Maxwell Would you mind promoting me back.
I may not seem active but I'm lurking here when I get the chance.
Besides, when this guild fell under, I took it over, with airazors help, we ran this guild for almost 2 years.
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:18 pm
I wouldn't ban Nad, he's not a threat. I'm still letting you keep a crew position and you're doing NOTHING. More than fair.
Oh, and Nad was removed for not being active with the guild back a year ago, if I recall. Because his account was hacked at that time and he wasn't posting. Not sure if his new account is still a member of the guild or not.
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:18 pm
heart heart heart heart gonk
DUUUUUOOOOO!
*read everything*
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:25 pm
Renette, I have nothing more to say to you. You've upset me more than you'll ever know.
I'm not going to let our conversation spill over into here, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't either.
You don't see the years of my life I put into the guild as a good reason to keep a spot given to me by the owner of this guild.
I don't see why you're being so cold hearted about something that meant so much to me and means so little to the grand scheme of things. The position was a reminder of the long time I spend getting it, and the effort I put into it.
I just want to ask you one more thing, who do you think has contributed more to this guild, me, and my five years worth of posting, actively helping guild members and keeping this guild alive, or you, who took over when I became inactive, got given the position because I was inactive and you weren't, and who is currently trying to tell me I'm not worth a position on an online forum. A position I worked for, and earned, a thousand times over.
and Nad stepped down to H3X as H3X came back to the game. Note he didn't get the position because he was the most active person at that time, but because he co founded this guild. They co founded the guild, and between those two, me and airazor, we made this guild. what happened to him after that I cannot remember. I think he left, but I wouldn't swear to it.
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:29 pm
Duo__Maxwell I'm not going to let our conversation spill over into here, and I'd appreciate it if you didn't either.
Kay. You don't want to talk, I won't answer your question.
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:34 pm
Very mature.
Maybe that's the reason every time I log into my gaia account I've got another message or two asking if I can get hold of H3X or Nad and if we can do anything about you and the way you treat and run this guild.
edit: Besides, we both know the answer to my question, as would anyone who read the question.
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:16 pm
Aww and here I was all excited to see Duo posting something, just to have it bear a bad title and give a bad taste in ones mouth after reading. What the ******** is with all this drama lately.
I do see his point however, and I can concur that he has contributed more to this guild than anyone else has. He was after all pretty much running the show during the guilds most active and prosperous moments. Don't see why it hurts to let him keep his title.
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:28 pm
Ren, just a quick note, but I am sorry if I seem to be having a go at you. I'm just upset.
I'm just trying to put my argument across, I don't mean anything by it.
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:28 pm
Duo__Maxwell Do you really think present contribution is what defines a characters title, or do you have another motive for demoting me?
This isn't a job, having me up at vice captain won't lose the guild anything at all, it's a rank I earnt, and I deserve.
I just don't know why you seem to think that you need to demote me simply because I'm not active anymore. I'm not going to reply to you in private message. But to answer you, I did do a lot of debating with myself on your demotion. It's been months, nay, over a year since I've seen anything from you to the guild. You don't post in the forum and aren't active in the clan chat. That's all I want from any moderator, in addition to upholding the guild rules. My only motive in demoting you is to try to start getting active moderators in the clan chat. Heck, even Air pops into the clan chat about once a month. My next move, for everyone to know, is to demote Zerg to a normal member from crew, because he's not willing to step in and be a mod for the clan chat when he gets the urge to drop in, even though he had the rank. If you want, you can read the thread in the crew section before you go, Duo. I keep hearing you and Zerg talk about these messages you receive from members of the guild wanting you to contact Nad and Hex and Tary to get them to come back and take over. Why don't you ever tell me when you receive them? If there's a problem in the guild, the members should feel they can come to me to correct it. Why do you think they contact you, knowing that you won't speak to me about them? I can't take action to correct a problem if I don't know about it. If you want me to answer your question, then, I will. Yes, you have contributed more than me in this guild. I didn't demote you to a normal member, Duo. You are still crew, are you saying Air and Snarfy aren't anything but normal members in this guild? During its most prosperous times he was actively running the guild, Sabs? It must have been long before I ever joined the guild then; in the years I've been in the guild, I haven't seen much of him at all.
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:33 pm
If I remember correctly, I hadn't heard about you until you took over the guild.
So I'm assuming you joined after I became inactive.
Okay, only two rebuttals to those points you make. How would me keeping my title cause the guild to have less active moderation? As far as I'm aware, the guilds coped fairly well with me there.
The second is, how is me losing my title going to promote more active moderation?
edit: Don't think I don't appreciate not removing my mod status altogether, it's just, that title was given to me by the owner of this guild. The person that brought this all about and it meant a lot to me when I was promoted.
I don't see the demotion as an incentive to post more, I see it as devaluing the work I put into this guild.
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:06 pm
I can't discern your two questions from each other Duo. They seem to be the same thing with different wording. I'm trying to get more active moderators in the guild. Funny the thing that's getting you to post was your loss of vice captain-ship. You're still crew - you have the same powers as you had before.
Hopefully, the people that will be promoted into moderatorship won't get lax and think they deserve their moderatorship just because it was given to them ages ago. Instead of relaxing and thinking they have their position, they'll continue to be a moderator instead of an iconic figurehead.
I'm not trying to devalue the work you put in. I'm just to get the guild into a more active state. I see that vice captainship is important to you, yes. If you like, I can put a shout-out on the guild homepage thanking you and everyone else that's made the guild into what it is now?
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:06 pm
That's it people, show's over. Well we had a good run, but I think this guild is finally falling apart.
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:16 pm
Lord Sutekh That's it people, show's over. Well we had a good run, but I think this guild is finally falling apart. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:37 pm
That's like taking the aging man down from his comfy chair on the management team after years of making the company what it is, and asking him if he'd like a plaque made for him.
I understand your want to have more active mods and I know I have the same powers, but powers or not and active mods or not, you're taking away something that means a lot to me. Please see this from my perspective.
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