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Envisioning the future of zOMG! 

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Emyre

Wheezing Warlord

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:05 pm




      Yeah, I really could not come up with a title for this.
      It's a culmination of several ideas I've had over the past couple months, and addresses the following issues/topics:

      - zOMG!'s need to earn more Gaia Cash
      - zOMG!'s need to be profitable for it's users
      - the difficulty of soloing
      - the lack of powerups
      - the need of a lootsink
      - the need of a goldsink
      - the fact that most of us have no use for Charge Orbs anymore, and so salvaging rings is a bit pointless

      Okay. So.
      My brain's a bit jumbled at the moment, so let's hope this makes some sort of sense.

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:06 pm


First idea: Potion Bases
Potion Bases are, essentially, a catalyst and filler material, sold by Nicolae.
Potion Bases would, for a relatively small price (5GC for a single, maybe a discount if you buy in bulk.), allow players to create their own powerups.

There would be two general types of potions craftable with these Bases.
The first would be "Basic" Potions, which have effects similar to current powerups.
These would require loot, in fairly decent amounts, to create potions.
While you wouldn't be able to create currently-existing powerups, you could create similar ones.
Taking a Potion Base, a dozen Clutch Claws, some Garlic Essence, and some Stems, one can craft a Simple HP Potion that increases your current HP by 15%.
A Potion Base with some Snake Eyes, Wing Tree Leaves, and a couple Twigs makes a Simple Stamina Potion, which gives you 20 Stamina upon use.
Note that these are all ingredients that are obtainable within the first few areas.

As you progress through, you'll gain access to new loot, which will let you make "Advanced" or "Expert" HP/Stamina Potions, which would heal, perhaps, 30% and 50%, respectively.

Other things, such as the rewarding and requiring of Crafting-related badges, could make potion-making and crafting a sort of profession on Gaia and within zOMG!.

To give an example:
Example

Basic Healing Potion (25) - A novice's Healing Potion, made from scavenged bits of Animated. It doesn't sound very appealing, but Nicolae swears it'll help you heal in a pinch...

Heals for 15%


Ingredients:
Potion Base x1 + Clutch Claw x12 + Garlic Essence x8 + Stem x20 + 200 Gold
Requirements:
Requires a basic knowledge of the Clutch Claw, Garlic Essence, and Stem ingredients. Which translates to 50-Kill badges for Clutches, Garlics, and Lawn Gnomes

Advanced Healing Potion (25) - A well brewed Healing Potion, made from scavenged bits of Animated. It looks barely edible, but Nicolae swears it'll help you heal in a pinch...

Heals for 30%


Ingredients:
Potion Base x1 + Tropical Flower x14 + Pink Fluff x6 + Tentacle Piece x8 + 300 Gold
Requirements:
Requires a basic knowledge of Healing Potion Making, along with knowledge of the Tropical Flower, Pink Fluff, and Tentacle Piece ingredients. Which translates to acquiring the badge for making 10 Basic Health Potions successfully. Which, to get, also requires the 50-Kill badges for the previous potion, along with the new 50-Kill badges for Spouts, Cherry Fluffs, and Shockroach.


You get the idea.

This would have a secondary effect, making powerups cheaper and more common, meaning people will be more likely to use, and hopefully become somewhat dependant on, using them.

There could be a number of other potions to make, as well.
Grass Fluffs could rarely spawn as "Lucky Clover" fluffs, which drop Four-Leaf Clovers, an ingredient in a rare luck-boosting potion.

There could also be other craftable powerups.
The first to come to mind would be "Sweetheart Sweets", craftable with special Chocolate ingredients available only from Valentine's Day fluffs, which provides an effect identical to Sweetheart, only in a consumable Powerup form.

Which brings me to the second type of potion.

Potion Bases are made from a secret mix, one ingredient of which is *dramatic pause...*
Null Crystals. O:
Because Null Crystals act as both a dissolving and bonding agent, they're ideal for potion making.
However, it also gives them a secondary effect.
The ability to dissolve and absorb rings.

A Potion Base, when combined with a buff Ring, creates a limited-use Power-up Form of a ring, ideal for playing solo, or in small groups.

The specifics of this idea can be discussed, but here're a couple of notes:

The CL of the ring should have no bearing on the CL of the Powerup. We don't want people buying their way through the game again. So, when used, it's applied at the person's current CL.
IMO, CL should have no bearing on the Powerup created at all. But it could affect the number of charges. A CL1-3 Ring makes a 5-charge Powerup. A CL 4-7 Ring makes a 10-charge Powerup. A CL 8-10 Ring makes a 15-charge Powerup.
Again, IMO, Powerups should be set at Rank 1. Perhaps additional uses could increase the rank, or CL could increase the rank. If Additional uses, I'd up the number of charges per powerup mentioned earlier.
Should be obvious, but once a ring is used to make a powerup, it's gone. This works as an alternative to salvaging.
Perhaps set Powerups to be like Rings, in that you can only swap them in the Null.

Emyre

Wheezing Warlord


Emyre

Wheezing Warlord

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:08 pm


Okay, so. Last bit here.
If you've read all this, I commend you.

Last thing: Charms.
Like the Powerups I suggested, these would require a Cash Shop "base", in the form of some kind of Crystal-based Trinket. We'll assume that, like the Buddy Crystals, they come from Otami, and call them Nyxian Talismans. These Talismans cost a bit more, from 100GC to 250GC, I'm thinking.
When crafted together with Rings, Loot, and Charge Orbs, they create Ghi Charms, which effectively act like weak, Passive Buffs, similar to Ghi Buffs.

Again, CL of the ring used to create it wouldn't matter. However, Charms can be upgraded through a combination of activity (a la Ghi Buffs), Orbs, loots, and additional rings.

I like Examples, so we'll use an Example:

Example

Divinity Charm:
Nyxian Talisman x1 + Divinity Ring x1 + Silver x25 + Gold x25 + Jewel Eye x15 + 5600 Gaia Gold
Passively increases your Stamina Regen by 1, and your Luck by 4.

Divinity Charm II:
Divinity Charm x1 + Divinity Ring x1 + Silver x35 + Gold x25 + Charge Orb x50 6000 Gaia Gold
Passively increases your Stamina Regen by 1.5, and your Luck by 6.

Divinity Charm III:
Divinity CharmII x1 + Divinity Ring x2 + Silver x45 + Gold x75 + Charge Orb x400 + 14000 Gaia Gold
Passively increases your Stamina Regen by 2, and your Luck by 8.
Also requires the crafter to have every 50 Kill badge.

Divinity Charm IV:
Divinity Charm III x2 + Divinity Ring x8 + Silver x250 + Gold x230 + Charge Orb x8000 + 20000 Gaia Gold
Passively increases your Stamina Regen by 4, and your Luck by 14.
Also requires the crafter to have every 50 Kill badge.

Divinity Charm V:
Divinity CharmIV x4 + Divinity Ring x26 + Silver x450 + Gold x340 + Charge Orb x17000 + 60000 Gaia Gold
Passively increases your Stamina Regen by 8, and your Luck by 20.


Now, obviously, they get a bit overpowered as the number gets higher.
However, they also get a bit over-difficult to obtain.
Especially when you factor in fail-rates. (Failure will never result in the loss of Cash-Shop items, or products of Cash-Shop items)

Personally, I like the idea of being able to spend months on end to get a single overpowered item.
If I'm alone in that, we could easily scale down the bonuses.

Now, Divinity was simple, since it's the only ring of it's type.
Other buffs, like Pot Lid and Rock Armor, would be part of the same "Armor Charm" recipe.
It could require Improb, Teflon, and Pot Lid to start. Next rank need each of those again, plus Rock Armor.
After that, you'll need 15 of each, plus a handful of Turtles. Along with Fauxskin, Shield Fragments, Iron Ore, Mushroom Heads, and other Defensive-sounding loot.
Pot Lid would also be part of the "Deflection Charm", though, which provides little to no actual armor, but increases your Deflection rating.
Iron Will could add to Deflection Charms, too, but they'd also be used in "Willful Charms".

There could be other passive effects, too, though.
Taunt could be used to craft a"Taunt Charm" that causes you to get 1.2-2 hate per damage inflicted, instead of just 1, making you a bigger target, and when combined with an Armor Charm, a Tank.
It could also be used inversely to make a "Timid Charm" that makes you get .8-.5 hate per damage, meaning you'll get far less aggro, which would be great for healers or could be combined with Damage Charms for support rangers.
Fire Rain and other rings could be used to make "Rage Charms", which apply a multiplier to how much Rage you earn from attacking/being attacked, making a powerful Beserker-type.
Shark Attack, Slash, Keen Aye, and Quicksand could all be used to make the "Pirate's Charm" which increases the damage and effectiveness of any ring within the Pirate Ring Set.
And, naturally, this could be applied to other ringsets, too.

Alright, I think I'm done.
If you managed to read all of that, here's a cookie.
User Image - Blocked by "Display Image" Settings. Click to show.
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:57 pm


*Noms cookie*
Want. Awesome idea. And we do need more craftable things to keep us busy between area updates. Dx
Plus I'd love it if it can help me solo.
/me likes soloing.

Reyla Vangis

Monster Hunter

13,400 Points
  • Beta Citizen 0
  • Treasure Hunter 100
  • Monster Hunter 100

Emyre

Wheezing Warlord

PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:58 pm


Exiled Poet
*Noms cookie*
Want. Awesome idea. And we do need more craftable things to keep us busy between area updates. Dx
Plus I'd love it if it can help me solo.
/me likes soloing.



      Gee. Thanks.
      User Image
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 5:04 pm


SykoCaster
Exiled Poet
*Noms cookie*
Want. Awesome idea. And we do need more craftable things to keep us busy between area updates. Dx
Plus I'd love it if it can help me solo.
/me likes soloing.



      Gee. Thanks.
      User Image

I didn't say I didn't like playing with you too. Dx Or anyone else for that matter. I just said I like soloing as well. >:[
Wanna play? :D

Reyla Vangis

Monster Hunter

13,400 Points
  • Beta Citizen 0
  • Treasure Hunter 100
  • Monster Hunter 100

Emyre

Wheezing Warlord

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:10 am




      Uhm.
      I dunno.
      Bump?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:41 pm


Potions: One thing I know, this would flush out the loot out of the Marketplace and fast. Another thing I know, people would buy superchargers anymore.
Double-edged sword much?
Of course, you fix it with the "Potion base" idea.
This is pretty balanced up (read: *I personally* don't think its either brokenly easy nor too punishing to get), I'm impressed. There is one point I see hugely in favor though. Rewards for getting badges. That detail isn't being done enough justice with this. We still need some reward for playing the game long, and this could be it. Of course, someone ought to say its unfair that even if you have the components you can't gain benefit from it... :/ zOMG! is baby's first MMO isn't it? I thought MMO were advocating pointless grinding. (Oh wait, the gold nerf...)


Quote:
Grass Fluffs could rarely spawn as "Lucky Clover" fluffs, which drop Four-Leaf Clovers, an ingredient in a rare luck-boosting potion.

"Sweetheart Sweets"


I've heard both these ones before. Have you posted them long ago?
Even outside of the suggestion in general, I agree that we need more power up variety. stare
If we go into stats like this we would never stop again! Oh god, it's the new passive ring all over again! GAH!

Ring Powerups: Reading Diagonally, he following examples seem to be a solution to what to do with those HUNDREDS of rings we have, in conjunction to the above in case we just don't want orbs. I can't stress how damned weird its hearing someone say "OMG, I got 20 orbs from that!", when I'm sitting on over thousands of them myself. I must be one of the few people who actually adblocked orbs instead of gold.

There's one kind of pointless concept I'm going to talk about right now which is the "orbconomy". If we think about orbs in the same way we think some concepts of Gaia gold, we can try to see that it has a "granting point" and a "sinking point". Right now, the granting point is greatly exaggerated, that being, you can get so many salvage orbs that you can go past your TCL. As for the orb sink... It's non-existent. This is such a huge issue that there's suggestions for what to do with them all over the place.
This actually helps with that issue, well, just a bit. It cuts the entry point by a minute amount, while having some people spend a small fraction of their orbs in the craft. Gives us a reason to spend rings somewhere beforehand, so orbs end up being less of an issue.
It won't help that much, but it's a thought. sweatdrop

I like that CL has no direct bearing. Maybe it's for the best to just not add any Cl bonus to this in terms of "power", as it might end up getting out of hand, not to mention, the people who have most rings to spare are also the ones getting them at higher levels as well, so we'd end up seeing absolutely no lower CL ring market at all, not to mention people would abuse end-game... again.

Red Kutai

On with your ideas: Charms. Honestly, sounds dangerous - problem is, I like it anyway. whee My suggestions are most likely going to be things that make them less scary (like having them degrade over time - with Div IV turning back into Div III after so much time active, but with much lower costs - and having them work based on your current G'hi, like G'hi buffs), but I'd hate for that to get in the way of them being useful. One thing: you mention using a "Taunt Charm" alongside an "Armor Charm" to become a Tank (or you may have meant combining the Taunt Charm and the Armor Charm into a "Tank Charm" - I couldn't tell) - how many of these are you able to equip? I'd assumed just one (with a special slot on your G'hi abilities pane), but if you're actually going to be equipping multiples, I'd think we'd have to factor in a stronger limiting factor to avoid them, er... Breaking the game. sweatdrop But maybe I'm overestimating them? When you list them all out in text it seems awfully dangerous, but I suppose if you're spending months on each of these, it's not quite so bad. I still prefer to require that maintaining the most powerful abilities actually requires you to maintain them, but if that would prove to be more a nuissance than anything, I can see why we'd avoid it...


And I'd rather both agree and disagree.
Unfortunately for your idea, I also don't like the prospect of overpowered features, at least so without a reason to have them.

FFTA2 had lots and lots of overpowered tactics. Kind of bullshit how easy some were to pull out. Incredibly gamebreaking how some could be (infinite loops gonk )But I forgiven the game when I saw "the last mission" which was a 5-in-a-row series of battles against CPU using tactics just as much bullshit as the ones I had... And on level 99 to boot. That alone made me just not care for the fact I steamrolled the game up until that point. All that overpowered feel eventually went somewhere.
But what does zOMG! have? Promises?
Still, if I had any power, specially if it was incredibly overpowered, I would get so, so mad if they added something like "durability" or "aging". It's just something I hate, specially in MMO's (not that many have done it, thankfully (I'm looking at you S4 cunts)). It's a cheap way to make the game longer than the point of "too long past long".
See, it's maybe just me, but I wouldn't like the prospect of some huge, awesome power if it had no reason to be placed in first place, and at the same time, I wouldn't be able to live with that power knowing that at some point, it would be gone, unless I kept working to keep it around, like a chore. And there's even the issue in the middle of both those conflicts, which is such a difficult to obtain power be found "too overpower" and be nerfed, after all my work was already placed into it.

Since we're touching the subject of overpower, why should anyone be allowed to equip more than one of these? talk2hand I'd screw gold and equip a bunch of defense charms, namely dodge. Can anyone say "The return of the Ninja Set"?

Also, I'd scrap that "taunt charm" idea, and maybe make a dedicated "tank" charm that uses both Taunt rings and Defense Rings to be crafted. Psh, let's not follow the existing sets so straightforwardly.

Ah yes, I forgot praise rolleyes
Another of those tiny little issues is player differentiation. This would effectively be the thing doing it as you put it, it'd make people approach "classes". Reminds me of the Ghi Auras suggestions actually.
We DO need that.

Sit down, truth bomb incoming:
The game is... easy, and you are punished for NOT being a freelancer capable of doing everything, as the crews tend to do taks in a more streamlined manner if anyone can do anything and do it as required, people aren't truly crewing, they aren't truly working together. there's no "dependency" to other players. Everyone is playing a solo game while taking advantage of the fact that you get more buffs and ghi stats around other people. The most you can do to be different is doing something people find "pointless", like being the dedicated "Adrenaline Spammer".
If the game wanted to go somewhere, it would need two things. Both an incentive to differentiate, and a punishment for not assigning roles. They completely ruined this with the "crew-wide buffs" update. To get it back, we either need to revert several buffs to single target only... or make something else that makes people prefer a play style. Oh, and of course, smarter and tougher monsters, no more mindless swarms. Otherwise, we'll end up having just new "Bucaneer Boardwalks" being added. Areas that no one really sees the point of as it's "more of the same", unless it is the new highest paying place.
This suggestion is one of the steps going that way. I've liked and supported any and ALL suggesting doing it. And I do this one as well.

DrQuint
Vice Captain

Girl-Crazy Ladykiller


Red Kutai
Captain

Benevolent Codger

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:43 pm


SykoCaster


      Uhm.
      I dunno.
      Bump?

Heh, oops? redface

Sorry; this is the third time I've popped in here, but it always seemed like I didn't have enough time to actually respond to everything. That's the problem with these long suggestions - they warrant long responses. sweatdrop

First off: Yes, we need more powerups, and they need to be introduced early (namely, before players earn their ninth ring - I hate seeing the "Why can't I use my other ring tray?" question on the Forums gonk ). What's more, even if they're hesitant to give out full powerups now (like they used to), I don't see the same problem with giving out a handful of these Potion Bases and giving them a quest that involves producing some of their own. Powerups are really an underused portion of the game (like so many portions of the game, actually), and I think combining them with the Recipe system (which is essentially what you're doing, except that Potion Bases can produce several varying results - and I'm not sure if there's a way to manage that with the Recipe system, currently).

Also, just to point this out: you missed an advantage, in your list - this also makes Badges more relevant. Badges are one of those things that tend to keep zOMG! players interested, so making them more obvious and more relevant stands to not only keep new players around longer, but reward those players who have been spending their extra time in zOMG! earning all their 5k Badges.
EDIT: Quint beat me to that one, but I still agree - making Badges more important is one of the best things we can do for the game right now, and this significantly helps that goal.

Next: I like the ring powerups. Problem is, they'll have to come up with a way to make Null-buffing more difficult before they would actually be used. I'm not sure if CL should really have any effect on the powerup produced, either (since these will be extra rings being thrown in there, and higher level players will have higher-level extra rings - getting a greater effect and more of it doesn't seem necessary), and I think sticking them at RR1 would be an important limiting factor - that way, they never have all the potential that a full ring has. Something you might consider adding to this, just because it seems a little lopsided - non-buff rings? Make a Hack potion that deals damage to enemies? A Knife Sharpen potion that debuffs? I guess the point is: why just buffs? Having a stamina-free version of other rings available (as a note, I'd expect a higher cooldown on the attacks, in general - they may even be completely simplified effects like, a Damage Potion) would be useful for those instances where you want the effect available, but can't afford the extra ring slot. Perhaps it's going too far, though (but if it is, I don't like what that says about the buff version, either - I'd imagine if there's a way to balance one, there'd be a way to balance both) - but Defib Potions would sure make a killing. sweatdrop

On with your ideas: Charms. Honestly, sounds dangerous - problem is, I like it anyway. whee My suggestions are most likely going to be things that make them less scary (like having them degrade over time - with Div IV turning back into Div III after so much time active, but with much lower costs - and having them work based on your current G'hi, like G'hi buffs), but I'd hate for that to get in the way of them being useful. One thing: you mention using a "Taunt Charm" alongside an "Armor Charm" to become a Tank (or you may have meant combining the Taunt Charm and the Armor Charm into a "Tank Charm" - I couldn't tell) - how many of these are you able to equip? I'd assumed just one (with a special slot on your G'hi abilities pane), but if you're actually going to be equipping multiples, I'd think we'd have to factor in a stronger limiting factor to avoid them, er... Breaking the game. sweatdrop But maybe I'm overestimating them? When you list them all out in text it seems awfully dangerous, but I suppose if you're spending months on each of these, it's not quite so bad. I still prefer to require that maintaining the most powerful abilities actually requires you to maintain them, but if that would prove to be more a nuissance than anything, I can see why we'd avoid it...
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 3:47 pm


Quintafeira12
Potions: One thing I know, this would flush out the loot out of the Marketplace and fast. Another thing I know, people would buy superchargers anymore.
Double-edged sword much?
Of course, you fix it with the "Potion base" idea.
This is pretty balanced up (read: *I personally* don't think its either brokenly easy nor too punishing to get), I'm impressed.



      Possibly, but like you said, they'd be getting money from Potion Bases instead.
      That, plus, Super Chargers would still be better overall.
      They'd be easier to obtain, since you don't have to gather materials.
      They'd have more uses, and so you don't have to worry about replacing them as often.

      I just want to get people using Powerups.
      A perfect example is Arrows in the game, Mabinogi.
      Arrows come in stacks of 100. As you run out, you have to drag more arrows out of your inventory, and into your secondary weapon slot.
      It's kinda a pain to do repeatedly.
      But, that game's Cash Shop offers Arrow Quivers that stack up to 1000.
      It costs something like 30 cents, but it's convenient.
      I don't do archery, but Exiled's bought a number of them.

      My point is; Once you get someone using something, they're more likely to start paying money for a more convenient version.
      Which is kinda what I'm hoping to accomplish with adding more, cheaper Powerups to the game.
Quintafeira12
There is one point I see hugely in favor though. Rewards for getting badges. That detail isn't being done enough justice with this. We still need some reward for playing the game long, and this could be it. Of course, someone ought to say its unfair that even if you have the components you can't gain benefit from it... :/ zOMG! is baby's first MMO isn't it? I thought MMO were advocating pointless grinding. (Oh wait, the gold nerf...)



      Yeah, like I said, it's not a main point of the idea.
      I don't think it's unfair at all that you need to play the game in order to profit from the game.
      And really, you're going to get more than 50 kills gathering loot, anyway.
      It's mostly just so you can't buy 2g loot off the MP and make high-leveled potions when you're still in VG.
      You need to make it to Otami, to use the loot from Otami.
      That's all.
Quintafeira12


Quote:
Grass Fluffs could rarely spawn as "Lucky Clover" fluffs, which drop Four-Leaf Clovers, an ingredient in a rare luck-boosting potion.

"Sweetheart Sweets"



I've heard both these ones before. Have you posted them long ago?
Even outside of the suggestion in general, I agree that we need more power up variety. stare
If we go into stats like this we would never stop again! Oh god, it's the new passive ring all over again! GAH!


      Yup.
      Last week, I believe.

      It was in a fairly unnoteworthy thread, I believe. Surprised you remember.
Quintafeira12

There's one kind of pointless concept I'm going to talk about right now which is the "orbconomy". If we think about orbs in the same way we think some concepts of Gaia gold, we can try to see that it has a "granting point" and a "sinking point". Right now, the granting point is greatly exaggerated, that being, you can get so many salvage orbs that you can go past your TCL. As for the orb sink... It's non-existent. This is such a huge issue that there's suggestions for what to do with them all over the place.
This actually helps with that issue, well, just a bit. It cuts the entry point by a minute amount, while having some people spend a small fraction of their orbs in the craft. Gives us a reason to spend rings somewhere beforehand, so orbs end up being less of an issue.
It won't help that much, but it's a thought. sweatdrop




      That's just the thing.
      Economies imply some sort of flow.
      There's no flow. There's no more of an orbconomy than there is a dustconomy or a cobwebconomy.

      One thing I didn't mention was the possibility of higher-ranking charms to require orbs regularly to function.
      This could be done by having them expire after X days, turning from a "Divinity Charm IV" to an "Inert Divinity Charm IV".
      From there, you can craft "Inert Divinity Charm IV" with 50 orbs, to make "Divinity Charm IV" again.

      I have a ton of ideas for orb sinks.
      I'll make that a tread, too, don't worry.

      ...and I'm going to stop there, for the moment, as I'm getting a tad hungry.
      xD;

Emyre

Wheezing Warlord


Emyre

Wheezing Warlord

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:17 pm


Red Kutai

First off: Yes, we need more powerups, and they need to be introduced early (namely, before players earn their ninth ring - I hate seeing the "Why can't I use my other ring tray?" question on the Forums gonk ). What's more, even if they're hesitant to give out full powerups now (like they used to), I don't see the same problem with giving out a handful of these Potion Bases and giving them a quest that involves producing some of their own.



      Exactly what I was thinking, though, there'd need to be a potion you could make out of either Sewer or VG loot. It'd be an awesome, and extremely fitting, quest for Nicu to give.
      It'd also get newbies used to actually using Powerups, not letting them rot in their inventories except in the most dire of situations.
Red Kutai
Powerups are really an underused portion of the game...



      Which is bad. Very bad.
      Powerups are supposed to be zOMG!'s source of income, and it's been basically ignored.

Red Kutai
...and I think combining them with the Recipe system (which is essentially what you're doing, except that Potion Bases can produce several varying results - and I'm not sure if there's a way to manage that with the Recipe system, currently).



      I'd assume they can.
      It'd basically just be loot, with a sort of "implied" recipe.
      Normal loot is already used in multiple recipes, so that's not an issue.
      And they used an "implied" recipe for the Golden Egg, so that shouldn't be an issue.

Red Kutai

Also, just to point this out: you missed an advantage, in your list - this also makes Badges more relevant. Badges are one of those things that tend to keep zOMG! players interested, so making them more obvious and more relevant stands to not only keep new players around longer, but reward those players who have been spending their extra time in zOMG! earning all their 5k Badges.
EDIT: Quint beat me to that one, but I still agree - making Badges more important is one of the best things we can do for the game right now, and this significantly helps that goal.



      Yes, the reason I left it out is simply because it's not vital to such an idea.
      I think it would be great for the game, and make an amazing addition, but it's not vital.

      I've been fighting for Badge importance since before zOMG! was even released.
      And I'd love to see all that grinding pay off for something.
      If not this, then something else.

Red Kutai

Next: I like the ring powerups. Problem is, they'll have to come up with a way to make Null-buffing more difficult before they would actually be used.



      Very few Solo players Null-buff as is.
      Even fewer are willing to return to the Null Chamber every 10 minutes just to rebuff.
      It'd only be a convenience, and something to do with your extra rings.
      Which is why it's a sort of sub-point to the main purpose of potion bases.
      The Cash Cow, I'm hoping, would be from normal potion making, not buff-making.

      What I'm hoping for is a sort of "I've got these extra rings, and Base Potions only cost me one Video Offer to buy. I might as well." train of thought.

Red Kutai
Something you might consider adding to this, just because it seems a little lopsided - non-buff rings? Make a Hack potion that deals damage to enemies? A Knife Sharpen potion that debuffs? I guess the point is: why just buffs? Having a stamina-free version of other rings available (as a note, I'd expect a higher cooldown on the attacks, in general - they may even be completely simplified effects like, a Damage Potion) would be useful for those instances where you want the effect available, but can't afford the extra ring slot. Perhaps it's going too far, though (but if it is, I don't like what that says about the buff version, either - I'd imagine if there's a way to balance one, there'd be a way to balance both) - but Defib Potions would sure make a killing. sweatdrop




      Main reason? So people don't load up their Powerup Tray with 8 additional attack... potions... and kill just about anything in a matter of seconds.

      Your Damage Potion idea warrants some thinking, though, as well as my mentioning another idea I had; Bomb Potion.
      Basically, it'd be a low-damage attack with high Knockback and a Stun effect.
      When you're cornered by something, (such as Taiko Drums, which have Knockback and in large enough groups, just knock you around without much chance of retaliation, or rooting/sleeping enemies such as Barnacle Fluffs) you use a Bomb Potion to give yourself some breathing room.

      And yes, if it's possible to have Powerups affect targets, (another issue with Attack potions) Defib Potions would be great.
      I never carry Defib on me, and people are always asking for Defibs.
      *Almost* makes me feel bad, until they curse me out and call me a noob for not carrying it.
      xd
Red Kutai

On with your ideas: Charms. Honestly, sounds dangerous - problem is, I like it anyway. whee My suggestions are most likely going to be things that make them less scary (like having them degrade over time - with Div IV turning back into Div III after so much time active, but with much lower costs - and having them work based on your current G'hi, like G'hi buffs), but I'd hate for that to get in the way of them being useful. One thing: you mention using a "Taunt Charm" alongside an "Armor Charm" to become a Tank (or you may have meant combining the Taunt Charm and the Armor Charm into a "Tank Charm" - I couldn't tell) - how many of these are you able to equip? I'd assumed just one (with a special slot on your G'hi abilities pane), but if you're actually going to be equipping multiples, I'd think we'd have to factor in a stronger limiting factor to avoid them, er... Breaking the game. sweatdrop But maybe I'm overestimating them? When you list them all out in text it seems awfully dangerous, but I suppose if you're spending months on each of these, it's not quite so bad. I still prefer to require that maintaining the most powerful abilities actually requires you to maintain them, but if that would prove to be more a nuissance than anything, I can see why we'd avoid it...



      I personally hate when items degrade over time.

      I think you're underestimating how difficult higher-ranked charms would be to get.
      I'm talking literal months for even hardcore players.

      Charms would have, effectively, a cap around rank 2 or 3, where you're meant to rank it up to.
      After that, there's a huge crafting curve, requiring tons of loot for a relatively small enhancement.
      So while you can continue upgrading it, it'd be more profitable, most likely, to start on a new charm and a new effect.

      They'd be toggle buffs, in the Power Up tray.
      So you'd be limited to 8, at most.
      Like I mentioned earlier, I'm also suggesting that Powerups get locked like Rings -- you can only change them in the Null.
      So you'll be sacrificing Powerups to equip them, as well.
      You'd also only be able to equip one of each type, so you can't just equip eight Healing Halo-type charms and be a 2k8 EB.

      I also do think you're overestimating them a tad.
      Fully upgraded, which, again, would take months, only gives you as much advantage as a R1 buff.
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:25 pm


SykoCaster


      I also do think you're overestimating them a tad.
      Fully upgraded, which, again, would take months, only gives you as much advantage as a R1 buff.


So I'm guessing the Divinity example is merely, well, an example.
Because, 8 stamina regen and 20 luck is quite a bit. And that comes in stack gonk .

Also, I think Red might have missed just how ludricous the requirements are. For the last one, you need a total of EIGHT of the the level 3 charms.

It's a lot. its a LOT of LOT! It's the one reason why I'm not offended with how abusive its power is.

*sees below*
or maybe he didn't. He's just of a different opinion on the concept altogether.

DrQuint
Vice Captain

Girl-Crazy Ladykiller


Red Kutai
Captain

Benevolent Codger

PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:36 pm


SykoCaster
I personally hate when items degrade over time.

I think you're underestimating how difficult higher-ranked charms would be to get.
I'm talking literal months for even hardcore players.

Charms would have, effectively, a cap around rank 2 or 3, where you're meant to rank it up to.
After that, there's a huge crafting curve, requiring tons of loot for a relatively small enhancement.
So while you can continue upgrading it, it'd be more profitable, most likely, to start on a new charm and a new effect.

They'd be toggle buffs, in the Power Up tray.
So you'd be limited to 8, at most.
Like I mentioned earlier, I'm also suggesting that Powerups get locked like Rings -- you can only change them in the Null.
So you'll be sacrificing Powerups to equip them, as well.
You'd also only be able to equip one of each type, so you can't just equip eight Healing Halo-type charms and be a 2k8 EB.

I also do think you're overestimating them a tad.
Fully upgraded, which, again, would take months, only gives you as much advantage as a R1 buff.

I knew that was coming - I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation before. stressed

Personally, I hate when items take months and months to get. Because of the type of player I am (remind me to make a reference thread on Timmy, Johnny, and Spike whee ), I enjoy playing considerably more when I've already got access to the item - I don't mind playing to maintain it, at that point. However, playing when I don't have it is considerably less fun, so the investment of working up to the item is much, much less appealing. I don't mind it so much if the investment is reasonable, but the higher you push the investment, the less appealing it gets - and to make the effects as big as you want to, the investment naturally gets very high. I do understand your side of Obtain v. Maintain debate, though, so it comes down more to which group of players we are most looking to appeal to, with this. Currently, I'm still leaning toward Maintain as the players it appeals to (Spike and Johnny) are more likely to be investing Cash than the players the Obtain version appeals to (Timmy and, again, Johnny). That said, I'm liable to sway if I see a good reason to - I'm not set-in-stone, on this one... sweatdrop
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 4:45 pm


Red Kutai
SykoCaster
I personally hate when items degrade over time.

I think you're underestimating how difficult higher-ranked charms would be to get.
I'm talking literal months for even hardcore players.

Charms would have, effectively, a cap around rank 2 or 3, where you're meant to rank it up to.
After that, there's a huge crafting curve, requiring tons of loot for a relatively small enhancement.
So while you can continue upgrading it, it'd be more profitable, most likely, to start on a new charm and a new effect.

They'd be toggle buffs, in the Power Up tray.
So you'd be limited to 8, at most.
Like I mentioned earlier, I'm also suggesting that Powerups get locked like Rings -- you can only change them in the Null.
So you'll be sacrificing Powerups to equip them, as well.
You'd also only be able to equip one of each type, so you can't just equip eight Healing Halo-type charms and be a 2k8 EB.

I also do think you're overestimating them a tad.
Fully upgraded, which, again, would take months, only gives you as much advantage as a R1 buff.

I knew that was coming - I'm pretty sure we've had this conversation before. stressed

Personally, I hate when items take months and months to get. Because of the type of player I am (remind me to make a reference thread on Timmy, Johnny, and Spike whee ), I enjoy playing considerably more when I've already got access to the item - I don't mind playing to maintain it, at that point. However, playing when I don't have it is considerably less fun, so the investment of working up to the item is much, much less appealing. I don't mind it so much if the investment is reasonable, but the higher you push the investment, the less appealing it gets - and to make the effects as big as you want to, the investment naturally gets very high. I do understand your side of Obtain v. Maintain debate, though, so it comes down more to which group of players we are most looking to appeal to, with this. Currently, I'm still leaning toward Maintain as the players it appeals to (Spike and Johnny) are more likely to be investing Cash than the players the Obtain version appeals to (Timmy and, again, Johnny). That said, I'm liable to sway if I see a good reason to - I'm not set-in-stone, on this one... sweatdrop


      Which is why I'm trying to appeal to both that that "effective cap" I mentioned.
      You'd be the type to go for the readily available I-III versions of several Charms.
      I'd be the kind to go after the V version with reckless abandon, forsaking other Charms for the most part.

Emyre

Wheezing Warlord

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