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Vox_Draconis Vice Captain
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 Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:05 am
First and formost, sorry to dump this rant on everyone, needed to vent.
Okay I got my census papers through the post today, opened up the envelope and flicked through the pages and by gawd I am pissed off the high hell with the government. In 2001 the Pagan Federation pushed a campaign to get paganism as a whole recognised as a group of religions within the UK, all supposedly went well and Pagans should have got their own tick box on the papers. Guess what, we didn't get one AGAIN!
Hell there are more Pagans in the UK than their are Sikhs but Sikhs still get their own tick box on the papers.
To those of you outside of the UK you probably think I'm getting wound up about nothing, and maybe I am but it's the priciple of the thing that's pissing me off. Anyway the Pagan Federation have launched another campaign to get Paganism it's own tick box in the census papers. We will only know in ten years time when the next census comes along whether the campaign is sucessful or not.
What are your veiws on the situation, just curious as to what people outside of the UK think of it all.
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:58 pm
Do they have a "fill in another option" slot?
It could just be because paganism isn't a religion itself.
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 8:03 pm
I'm not sure why it should matter to the government what faith one subscribes to. That's my American mindset anyway.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:30 am
Obscurus I'm not sure why it should matter to the government what faith one subscribes to. That's my American mindset anyway. The reason the census is done over here is so that different councils can work out what majorities and minorities are in their areas (it covers ethnicity, faith, orientation along with other information) to help them figure out where they need to spend their annual budgets, to help people living in their councils and what measures should be taken to provide help and services for those represented. At least that's the short explination.
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Vox_Draconis Vice Captain
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:03 pm
If it's something paper that you gotta fill out by hand.. I'd totally draw in a box and write "Pagan" and check the box, hahahaha.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:08 pm
Vox_Draconis Obscurus I'm not sure why it should matter to the government what faith one subscribes to. That's my American mindset anyway. The reason the census is done over here is so that different councils can work out what majorities and minorities are in their areas (it covers ethnicity, faith, orientation along with other information) to help them figure out where they need to spend their annual budgets, to help people living in their councils and what measures should be taken to provide help and services for those represented. At least that's the short explination. I understand that part, but in the spirit of human equality I don't see why a person's faith is necessary for those decisions to be made. Same thing with race. I would be more concerned with incomes and what services and opportunities are available. I get the feeling that when the census asks questions about race, ethnicity, and religion (here or anywhere else) that the statistics are just going to be used to push this or that agenda rather than actually help the people reporting to the census. That's just my opinion though.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:19 pm
Obscurus I get the feeling that when the census asks questions about race, ethnicity, and religion (here or anywhere else) that the statistics are just going to be used to push this or that agenda rather than actually help the people reporting to the census. That's just my opinion though.
That's because we Americans have been over-sensitized to the whole issue of "race" and ethnicity. We're overly concerned with not being concerned about race (if that makes sense).
During the Winder Olympics in China, one of the teams (I wanna say it was Germany or Spain, but it might not have been), anyway, they posed for a picture pulling the sides of their faces so that their eyes looked thin and slanted (like Asians' eyes) and the American team got all hot and bothers and told them to apologize and all that jazz. The actual Chinese, however, didn't give a flying frack.
So... yeah. America is overly sensitive when it comes to the subject of race.
That being said, even knowing this, I still share the same opinion you have, Obbs, when it comes to statistics and such.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:40 pm
Renkon Root Obscurus I get the feeling that when the census asks questions about race, ethnicity, and religion (here or anywhere else) that the statistics are just going to be used to push this or that agenda rather than actually help the people reporting to the census. That's just my opinion though.
That's because we Americans have been over-sensitized to the whole issue of "race" and ethnicity. We're overly concerned with not being concerned about race (if that makes sense).
During the Winder Olympics in China, one of the teams (I wanna say it was Germany or Spain, but it might not have been), anyway, they posed for a picture pulling the sides of their faces so that their eyes looked thin and slanted (like Asians' eyes) and the American team got all hot and bothers and told them to apologize and all that jazz. The actual Chinese, however, didn't give a flying frack.
So... yeah. America is overly sensitive when it comes to the subject of race.
That being said, even knowing this, I still share the same opinion you have, Obbs, when it comes to statistics and such.
I understand what you're saying. I still can't see any real reason that race or religion should be important when deciding who gets funding for what. That only leaves using the data for junk statistics and that seems shady to me. There's some fun in knowing "Well, half the nation is Catholic," (or whatever). However, it's not really useful in deciding who gets a new school or clinic.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:52 pm
Renkon Root
That's because we Americans have been over-sensitized to the whole issue of "race" and ethnicity. We're overly concerned with not being concerned about race (if that makes sense).
During the Winder Olympics in China, one of the teams (I wanna say it was Germany or Spain, but it might not have been), anyway, they posed for a picture pulling the sides of their faces so that their eyes looked thin and slanted (like Asians' eyes) and the American team got all hot and bothers and told them to apologize and all that jazz. The actual Chinese, however, didn't give a flying frack.
So... yeah. America is overly sensitive when it comes to the subject of race.
That being said, even knowing this, I still share the same opinion you have, Obbs, when it comes to statistics and such.
Being on the other end of racism makes it always seem like there's not enough concern about it. sweatdrop
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:55 pm
Esiris Being on the other end of racism makes it always seem like there's not enough concern about it. sweatdrop
Oh, I get that. I'm Jewish and bi-sexual and have been on the receiving end of my fair share of discrimination.
The point I was trying to make, however, was that America worries so much about NOT being racist that we actually perpetuate said discrimination.
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:27 pm
Renkon Root Esiris Being on the other end of racism makes it always seem like there's not enough concern about it. sweatdrop
Oh, I get that. I'm Jewish and bi-sexual and have been on the receiving end of my fair share of discrimination.
The point I was trying to make, however, was that America worries so much about NOT being racist that we actually perpetuate said discrimination.
That's fair- sorry for the misunderstanding.
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:28 am
Obscurus Vox_Draconis Obscurus I'm not sure why it should matter to the government what faith one subscribes to. That's my American mindset anyway. The reason the census is done over here is so that different councils can work out what majorities and minorities are in their areas (it covers ethnicity, faith, orientation along with other information) to help them figure out where they need to spend their annual budgets, to help people living in their councils and what measures should be taken to provide help and services for those represented. At least that's the short explination. I understand that part, but in the spirit of human equality I don't see why a person's faith is necessary for those decisions to be made. Same thing with race. I would be more concerned with incomes and what services and opportunities are available. I get the feeling that when the census asks questions about race, ethnicity, and religion (here or anywhere else) that the statistics are just going to be used to push this or that agenda rather than actually help the people reporting to the census. That's just my opinion though. Oh there are questions like income and such as well the entire booklet to be filled in has something like 30 for 40 sides of paper that the household needs to fill in. I know what you mean and yes I have that worry too, but it's part and parcel of living in the UK, if you don't fill it in thats one big fat £1000 fine you have to deal with.
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Vox_Draconis Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:35 pm
Vox_Draconis Obscurus Vox_Draconis Obscurus I'm not sure why it should matter to the government what faith one subscribes to. That's my American mindset anyway. The reason the census is done over here is so that different councils can work out what majorities and minorities are in their areas (it covers ethnicity, faith, orientation along with other information) to help them figure out where they need to spend their annual budgets, to help people living in their councils and what measures should be taken to provide help and services for those represented. At least that's the short explination. I understand that part, but in the spirit of human equality I don't see why a person's faith is necessary for those decisions to be made. Same thing with race. I would be more concerned with incomes and what services and opportunities are available. I get the feeling that when the census asks questions about race, ethnicity, and religion (here or anywhere else) that the statistics are just going to be used to push this or that agenda rather than actually help the people reporting to the census. That's just my opinion though. Oh there are questions like income and such as well the entire booklet to be filled in has something like 30 for 40 sides of paper that the household needs to fill in. I know what you mean and yes I have that worry too, but it's part and parcel of living in the UK, if you don't fill it in thats one big fat £1000 fine you have to deal with. I find it amusing that our census had 10 questions. That's it. I think there's supposed to be some kind of fine or something for not doing it but it's not like you can avoid it because people call you or come to your house and bug the s**t out of you if you don't mail it in. I did it just so I didn't have to deal with that. And they still called me to follow up. rolleyes
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Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:37 pm
Vox_Draconis Oh there are questions like income and such as well the entire booklet to be filled in has something like 30 for 40 sides of paper that the household needs to fill in. I know what you mean and yes I have that worry too, but it's part and parcel of living in the UK, if you don't fill it in thats one big fat £1000 fine you have to deal with. Apparently, only 3 people have ever had to pay the fine! Because they send people round and sit there to make sure you do it. Ridiculous. I was happy to fill the census in. If my descendants are trying to find me later on it might help them. The only thing that bothered me was that simply saying I was a student with a part-time vacation job was impossible. So, on the census, it looks like I'm a lazy student!
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Vox_Draconis Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:46 pm
doistu Apparently, only 3 people have ever had to pay the fine! Because they send people round and sit there to make sure you do it. Ridiculous. I was happy to fill the census in. If my descendants are trying to find me later on it might help them. The only thing that bothered me was that simply saying I was a student with a part-time vacation job was impossible. So, on the census, it looks like I'm a lazy student! Seriously? I didn't know they sent people round to help fill the forms out. Aye, that's a valid point. Lol but aren't the vast majority of students lazy? I'm not saying you are, I know I was a lazy student.
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