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Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:50 pm
Aside from buffs and debuffs, we only have three real statuses, both good or bad. These being Sleep, Root, and Fear. So I was thinking zOMG! could do with a few more. I'll kick things off with a couple of ideas.
Berserk: Your hit rate is reduced (a seperate check from accuracy/dodge) but every hit you manage to land is a critical hit. Curse: Although your Dodge is unaffected, you become more susceptible to critical hits. Stickybomb: Slows your footspeed slightly. If struck by a critical hit, the bomb goes off, damaging you and all nearby targets (friend and foe alike). You can pass it to another target by attacking it. Confusion: All attacks will target the closest target, friend or foe. AoE attacks will hit both enemies and allies. Buffs and healing will also target the nearest target.
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Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 2:41 am
Here's two I had in mind for a while, although I never bothered naming them until 10 seconds ago:
Mirror Damage: Every point of damage and healing that affects you is reversed. Damage heals and healing hurts. Right now, the best results would be seen if animated used it on themselves.
Decoy / Meat Shield / Cover: All damage taken by a target is transfered to another target. Can be used either by someone trying to protect someone else, or used by a foe hiding behind a player making an unsuspecting crew to kill itself.
Well, those aren't really status effects...
Dare I enter the realm of generic status effects and suggest Charm (like confusion, but only targets allies) and Disable (Locks three random rings from hand)
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Atrash the Squidmonger Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:47 am
Well, a simple one would be Blind. Turn the screen black, remove the target pane (or just make it all ???). Remove the crew pane (perhaps making it just go ??? for the period of the effect). Perhaps make spacebar, or whatever people might use to select themselves, not work. Maybe make Q (or whatever people toggle that too) not work if you really want to be mean.
Rage (or perhaps Berserk) - you lose all buffs and none will stick to you. Maybe hit rate lowers, or you lose health (or maybe just your natural dodge rate goes down). In return, you get all crit hits.
Stun - basically, what you get with Root and Fear, but just in one status effect. Person doesn't move away (like Fear), can't fight back (like Root), and attacking them doesn't immediately break the effect (like sleep). Could be made so that doing a certain amount of damage would break the effect, and of course time would break the effect.
Effect specific Sleep. - Can't heal. - Can't attack. - Can't buff.
Anger/Taunted/etc. - Ability to resist debuffs and status effects, as well as dodge go down for awhile, while getting more powerful hits or something (maybe extra stamina if it's just used against players). Would be used to weaken people for other effects.
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Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 12:42 pm
The problem is, there are only a couple I see here that actually make more sense as Crowd Control than as Debuffs. It's a pretty fine distinction, I think, but I tend to reserve Crowd Control for effects that actually change how you're able to control your character - which Root, Sleep, and Fear all do. Things that let you control your character in the same basic way, even if they change the effectiveness of some of those controls, don't really seem like Crowd Control effects to me - though they still make great Debuffs.
Confusion seems like a genuine CC, since it affects how you target. I'm not sure if targetting the closest target necessarily makes the best sense (since you can still target an enemy and press 'G' to stay on top of him - unless it actually disables your target pane completely). Perhaps simply having it randomise among all targets in range (friend and foe)? That still makes it pretty easy to work around, though (for melee attacks, at least), so I don't know if it's really an improvement, anyhow.
Charm, as similar as it is to Confusion, also seems like a CC effect - but another one that actually removes control from the user. Essentially, the game would control your character as an enemy for its duration, attacking your crew, and buffing and healing enemies. Personally, I'd rather see more Crowd Control that doesn't take your character from you completely (like Sleep and Fear already do), but this one is standard enough that I could see it showing up at some point.
Blind is another one that looks good. I'd probably skip the part about not being able to target yourself (you may be Blind, but you're still self-aware) but disable the ability to target anything else - and, if you want to combine it with obscuring the game screen somehow (blurring it or filling it with a white 'flash' or black 'darkness', and letting it slowly come back into focus) that would make sense, too. Honestly, I'd rather see Crowd Control really affecting players more than it does now - including things like shaking the screen (or introducing some effect to it, to simulate panic) while Fear'd, making the screen 'blink out' (much like your eyelids getting 'heavy') when you're put to Sleep, etc. Crowd Control, in general, should be making a much larger effect than it does.
Really, using the definition I do for Control effects, it comes down to figuring out in what ways you normally control your character, and changing one or more of them. Essentially, you've got three conditions any control can be in: voluntary (which is normal), disabled, and involuntary. Fear, for instance, is just disabling Rings control (which effectively disables Targetting, I suppose) while making movement involuntary. Sleep just disables both Rings and movement (and, notably, has an special end condition). Root just disables movement. Confusion would make Targetting involuntary. Charm would make movement, Rings, and Targetting (and, if you're feeling silly enough, Chat control xp ) all involuntary - scary. Blind disables Targetting. It comes down to figuring out what combinations haven't been used, and figuring out how best to use them - though it looks like you're already posing quite a few good considerations, in that regard... sweatdrop
EDIT: Since I already brought it up, tangentially, and it actually doesn't seem too silly for this game: how does everyone feel about Logorrhea-type status, that causes your character to say random, meaningless things? I suppose we could also just call the status 'Spam'... whee
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Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:30 pm
I do like the "no buffs for x period of time" idea, though to keep it in line with the zOMG tone, how about something like ... Soapy? A Soapy character can't be buffed. It would also be a fine condition to inflict on an Animated, once they start learning how to buff each other.
And I was looking to broaden the definition of "Status Effects" to include something beyond crowd control. These would be conditions that affect your fighting abilities in a way other than buff/debuff, but don't necessarily alter controls. Granted, Confuse and Charm are both a form of CC, but Curse and Stickybomb are not.
Hm... Meatshield... Wasn't there a similar idea in the Dastardly Strategies thread? Where a boss Animated uses a player to block damage to itself?
Finally, I think a "Spamtongue" effect would be hilarious. The Devs just have to come up with a lot of random things for people to say. Some of it could be genuinely misleading, too! (e.g. "Div just ran out!")
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Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:48 pm
Thard_Verad I do like the "no buffs for x period of time" idea, though to keep it in line with the zOMG tone, how about something like ... Soapy? A Soapy character can't be buffed. It would also be a fine condition to inflict on an Animated, once they start learning how to buff each other. And I was looking to broaden the definition of "Status Effects" to include something beyond crowd control. These would be conditions that affect your fighting abilities in a way other than buff/debuff, but don't necessarily alter controls. Granted, Confuse and Charm are both a form of CC, but Curse and Stickybomb are not. Hm... Meatshield... Wasn't there a similar idea in the Dastardly Strategies thread? Where a boss Animated uses a player to block damage to itself? Finally, I think a "Spamtongue" effect would be hilarious. The Devs just have to come up with a lot of random things for people to say. Some of it could be genuinely misleading, too! (e.g. "Div just ran out!") I suppose I ought to have clarified that when I said 'Debuff,' I was referring to the class of effects which happens to include Buffs and Debuffs - not actual stat bonuses or penalties. I think the only technical differences between Status effects and Debuffs are that the former is based on Willpower (and the latter Debuff Resistance) and that Statuses don't show in the Crew/Target pane. Generally, unless the effect is inherently noticeable enough (like rending control from the player, in one form or another), it's just a kindness to make it more visible - particularly if you're planning on it having any kind of lasting duration. Perhaps if it's specifically supposed to go unnoticed, or it really needs to avoid Debuff Resistance to work; but I just don't see a very significant advantage to posing these as Status-class rather than Debuff-class.
Meat Shield also showed up as the 'buff' Chivalry, in Atrash's Ring Ideas thread - where it was self-inflicted, allowing you to take damage for an ally, as part of the Knight Set. It was intended to be the zOMG! version of the traditional Knight archetype's 'Cover' ability. I do remember the boss version, though, which is an interesting subversion on the effect, too.
And I do want to repeat that I like all of these effects, even if I don't think they necessarily fit as 'Statuses' - my standards for 'Status' are just really high. I prefer to keep relatively unique effects for the Debuff-class, and to reserve Status-class for evergreen mechanics that can be easily reused in different locations, with different enemies, and at different levels. I think that Statuses are supposed to be exclusive. But perhaps I'm just being too strict with my definition... sweatdrop
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Atrash the Squidmonger Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:10 pm
Heh, a spam talking status effect would be really amusing. I'd actually want to get it, as I don't spend a lot of time typing out stuff to say naturally, and random stuff like would probably appear would be just what I'd say anyway. If it used tricky things, might want to really make sure people know about the effect, or else it could start arguments and such (sort of Gandalf and the trolls style). Red Kutai Blind is another one that looks good. I'd probably skip the part about not being able to target yourself (you may be Blind, but you're still self-aware) but disable the ability to target anything else - and, if you want to combine it with obscuring the game screen somehow (blurring it or filling it with a white 'flash' or black 'darkness', and letting it slowly come back into focus) that would make sense, too. Honestly, I'd rather see Crowd Control really affecting players more than it does now - including things like shaking the screen (or introducing some effect to it, to simulate panic) while Fear'd, making the screen 'blink out' (much like your eyelids getting 'heavy') when you're put to Sleep, etc. Crowd Control, in general, should be making a much larger effect than it does.
Ooh, blurring would be cool. For Fear, it would be awesome to just have the purple scaredness effect that pops up over the target's head just appear over the screen, staring at you. I'd image that would lag, though. I'd be a bit worried about self targeting because it's actually pretty effective. You can heal yourself, buff the crew, etc. Of course, buffing isn't that problematic, and it does make sense to be able to self target (and target anything around you with AoE, or just target random places with AoE). Then you try to get the crew leading around the blind person (and add in Spam with misleading directions! heh lol ). - Might have some powerup or ring or other thing with the ability to light the way for blinded people. A sort of targeted circle of light (I guess I'm sort of combining Blind with Dark, which could be its own effect). Maybe even animated that give off light for a little bit when they die or are hurt, thus providing some oddly targetable lighting. How about Glue or something, sticking targets together? This could be implemented either with a kind of group control - each target pulling the connection one way or another, and so ununified movement would almost make it like Root, while a unified movement of targets (such as a well grouped crew, or a bunch of animated moving towards the same aggro area) would just bunch targets together - or with one thing controlling movement: - Either an ally-ally one. A bunch of animated which move as one until the status breaks and they split up into easier to defeat animated based on where they are aggroing. Players leading other players (perhaps for speed, perhaps because some players are blinded [for something like this, might want to make the effect voluntary - so players can split off when they want to]) - Or perhaps an enemy-enemy one. Animated stick players together so they can use Root or Fear on one target alone, or just to group players together for AoE attacks. Players stick animated together to get aggro control (move the mass of stuck together animated in one direction by just having one person aggro the leader animated, while the rest attack and kill the other animated while they are being towed away at a safer distance), use Root and Fear easier, group for AoE attacks, etc. - Or perhaps even enemy-ally. An animated drags a crew around to force them into trouble. A player drags animated into or out of a battle, etc. How about range restrictions? Nearsighted or something. Targets would only be able to use rings in melee or short distances (good to use against sniping animated and/or players). The frequently suggested Charge might be a workable effect. Players move quickly to target (basically making melee attacks at range) and have some bonus to attack (knockback, more crits, willpower buff, whatever).
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:46 pm
Dispel: Randomly removes one buff from an enemy. Weakness: A basic debuff that increases damage received. Rot/Decay: Increases damage taken by your Armor Pool, for Armor Pool-type buffs. Though, doesn't really work with the current crappy decay rate.
Also; Berserk: All attacks are automatically used with rage. However, random buffs are "Dispelled", damage taken is increased, you can't use heals on yourself, and cannot cast/be affected by buffs.
I had a few more ideas for statuses, but I can't think of them atm. TV's on too loud to think straight. mad
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:53 pm
SykoCaster
Also; Berserk: All attacks are automatically used with rage.
There's one that I'd overlooked completely - Rage Control. That opens up at least two distinct possibilities (disabled, where you can't use Rage - flavored as sadness, apathy, or tranquility - and involuntary, where Rage gets used at random - flavored, most likely, as berserkness). There are a few more types of control than had occurred to me, obviously - I was hoping as much...
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Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 5:07 pm
Red Kutai SykoCaster
Also; Berserk: All attacks are automatically used with rage.
There's one that I'd overlooked completely - Rage Control. That opens up at least two distinct possibilities (disabled, where you can't use Rage - flavored as sadness, apathy, or tranquility - and involuntary, where Rage gets used at random - flavored, most likely, as berserkness). There are a few more types of control than had occurred to me, obviously - I was hoping as much...
Yup. When used with more rage, the effect could increase.
For example, when using Berserker at R2, all attacks are automatically R2. At R4, they're automatically R4.
For Apathy, or whatever you want to call it, at R2, your enemy's Rage Bar only goes up to 3 for the duration of the effect. Ofcourse, that'd only apply if PvP comes out.
Which reminds me of another crowd-control-type ring; Placate. I originally suggested it under the name "Pacify", as part of an "Infant" themed ring set. Against enemies, it'd lower, or totally reset, that enemy's hate list against you, either permanently, or just temporarily. Against players, or if used by monsters, it'd cause anyone targeting it to switch to another target. Perhaps give them a status similar to the Orb Spill orbs, or Easter Eggs, in which ~ or q wouldn't select them. Maybe, even, after a successful attack, your target is switched again for a while.
The Orb status could also be good for Ninja Fluffs/Animated.
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