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 Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:23 am
Based on an idea discussed here and here, the idea is using the Durem Clocktower as an instance - with the tower itself being the enemy.
Again, I'd like to see this as less of a hack-and-slash style instance, and more focused on puzzles. One of the posts above contains one such puzzle: a room with a clock face, that spawns 1-12 small enemies at random. Each time, a Crewmember has to click the number on the clock face corresponding to the number of enemies spawned - a right answer moves the clock forward, while a wrong answer resets it. After 3 (or 4, or 6 - 3 just seemed most predictable, to me) right answers, the clock face opens, and your party can proceed.
The boss would be the Animated Sun and Moon, as discussed in the first linked post - the boss switches at intervals (or, possibly, at random, or on a trigger - not sure, really) between a Sun mode (use 'Burn' damage-over-time, etc,) and a Moon mode (uses Sleep, etc.), forcing you to fight it two different ways. Additionally, we discussed giving it the ability to control time, relatively - slowing time, to make your Cooldown and Regeneration slower, or quickening time, to wear down your buff/debuff durations (ideally, there would be a way to see remaining buff durations, first sweatdrop ).
As something of a clockwork enthusiast, this idea may be more appealing to me than to most, but I think there are lots of interesting possibilities with it. Any ideas?
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:57 am
Clocktowers are somewhat of a part of video game culture. They're seen as a stage of importance. Don't know who started the trend, but my point stands. Many games do at least one level crossing to one thanks to that. Soul Calibur 3 had Zasalamel's (the mastermind behind the game's plot) stage and hell, even Sonic and Mario had one each. I wouldn't disprove of making an enemy inside who constantly swarms you and paralyze you in a very annoying fashion specially if you're crossing trough puzzles and hazards, as an homage of sorts, but with a boss based after the moon, that would be a bit too much. Since this is a clock, what about some time based puzzles? I can't think f any from the top of my head, but if someone had an idea to that effect, it'd be nice. And what about alternate paths that open and close depending on time of the day? There should always be a one way exit on both so you don't need to suicide to get out after the open path has changed. One could be filled with the clutches (bats) along the regular enemies to represent the night, while the other could have something else to represent the day.
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:14 am
Quintafeira12 Clocktowers are somewhat of a part of video game culture. They're seen as a stage of importance. Don't know who started the trend, but my point stands. Many games do at least one level crossing to one thanks to that. Soul Calibur 3 had Zasalamel's (the mastermind behind the game's plot) stage and hell, even Sonic and Mario had one each. I wouldn't disprove of making an enemy inside who constantly swarms you and paralyze you in a very annoying fashion specially if you're crossing trough puzzles and hazards, as an homage of sorts, but with a boss based after the moon, that would be a bit too much. Since this is a clock, what about some time based puzzles? I can't think f any from the top of my head, but if someone had an idea to that effect, it'd be nice. And what about alternate paths that open and close depending on time of the day? There should always be a one way exit on both so you don't need to suicide to get out after the open path has changed. One could be filled with the clutches (bats) along the regular enemies to represent the night, while the other could have something else to represent the day.
Time-based puzzles sound nice, and I really love the alternate paths idea - or at least having the instance change significantly between day and night. One of the day/night, clockwork ideas I had were animated cogs, that looked like Stars and Suns (we'll assume they're different things, for now  ), but I was never a clever enough artist to make them look like both cogs and celestial bodies at the same time. sweatdrop
I believe I briefly considered a puzzle of some sort based on chimes or bells, of differing pitch - either trying to emulate a particular sequence, 'Simon Says'-style, or trying to crack a randomised 'code' among them. Either way, the wrong solution would spawn a swarm of enemies. xp Perhaps having the enemies themselves give the clues (animated bells, perhaps?), and then having to emulate the pattern they died in on the tower chimes. As long as it spawns a number of enemies equal to the number of crewmembers you have, then even if it requires one player per-chime, you'd always be able to complete the pattern...
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:23 am
A "Simon Says" minigame sounds awfully a lot like something we used to have and was removed - A Simon Says fountain minigame! Ah, I wonder if [ JK ] did deliver that message about Goofball this time talk2hand The idea is out there. Not really feeling it, since I want Fountain back, but a twist like sounds coming from killed animated aren't that bad. Bells! Bells fit the theme. Cogs are almost a necessity in the Tower considering the obvious enviroment it would have, and it would make sense to make them smaller enemies so they can be recycled to the robotic areas of Aekea, leaving room for the larger enemies to be something else. A bell seems like quite a menacing object to attack you, so they could be the area's tanks. And if an alarm clock can make you go to sleep, so can a bell. Imagine this as the body build and chest of an animated. Just add arms and a head on top. And every few attacks, it'd do an AoE Ringing attack around it that would put to sleep random people. it cracks on death as well. Speaking of which, Clutch/Skeeters seem like a good choice for Day/Night variety, while the rest is constant. Skeeters are clocks after all, and clutches could compensate the lack of status effects in numbers. edit: I may sound a bit eager to recycle enemies around areas, but I'm actually not too much. It's just that sometimes I wish each type appeared in more than one space so you aren't forced to farm from one spot to get the badges. A change is nice once in a while.
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:00 pm
Ever played Kirby's Adventure (NES, remade as Kirby: Nightmare in Dreamland for GBA)? One of the bosses was the sun and moon, and they took turns battling Kirby. Plus, while one was on the ground, the one in the sky would often bring down a support attack (producing the stars necessary for the pink puff to inhale and shoot back for victory)
Gaia has sun and moon items, right? Animate a couple of those maybe.
I'm all for adding a timer to the puzzles. My thinking is to have two doors leading out of each timed room. Finish before time expires and you get the preferred path onward. Finish late and you get penalized. Miss a valuable treasure chest, navigate a treacherous obstacle course, get stuck with a nasty debuff for the next hour, randomly daze one person in the crew, etc....
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:09 pm
Thard_Verad Ever played Kirby's Adventure (NES, remade as Kirby: Nightmare in Dreamland for GBA)? One of the bosses was the sun and moon, and they took turns battling Kirby. Plus, while one was on the ground, the one in the sky would often bring down a support attack (producing the stars necessary for the pink puff to inhale and shoot back for victory) Gaia has sun and moon items, right? Animate a couple of those maybe. I'm all for adding a timer to the puzzles. My thinking is to have two doors leading out of each timed room. Finish before time expires and you get the preferred path onward. Finish late and you get penalized. Miss a valuable treasure chest, navigate a treacherous obstacle course, get stuck with a nasty debuff for the next hour, randomly daze one person in the crew, etc.... being an epic fan of kirby, the sun and moon bosses sound familiar, though i can't quite get the clear picture in my mind >_< and time based anythings will always be interesting
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:27 pm
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Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 5:29 pm
Quintafeira12 *cough* http://kirby.wikia.com/wiki/Mr._Shine_&_Mr._Bright OOOH now i remember!!!! 3nodding its just been so long since i've played a kirby game, especially that one
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Atrash the Squidmonger Vice Captain
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:50 pm
Red Kutai Quintafeira12 Clocktowers are somewhat of a part of video game culture. They're seen as a stage of importance. Don't know who started the trend, but my point stands. Many games do at least one level crossing to one thanks to that. Soul Calibur 3 had Zasalamel's (the mastermind behind the game's plot) stage and hell, even Sonic and Mario had one each. I wouldn't disprove of making an enemy inside who constantly swarms you and paralyze you in a very annoying fashion specially if you're crossing trough puzzles and hazards, as an homage of sorts, but with a boss based after the moon, that would be a bit too much. Since this is a clock, what about some time based puzzles? I can't think f any from the top of my head, but if someone had an idea to that effect, it'd be nice. And what about alternate paths that open and close depending on time of the day? There should always be a one way exit on both so you don't need to suicide to get out after the open path has changed. One could be filled with the clutches (bats) along the regular enemies to represent the night, while the other could have something else to represent the day.
Time-based puzzles sound nice, and I really love the alternate paths idea - or at least having the instance change significantly between day and night. One of the day/night, clockwork ideas I had were animated cogs, that looked like Stars and Suns (we'll assume they're different things, for now ), but I was never a clever enough artist to make them look like both cogs and celestial bodies at the same time. sweatdrop
I believe I briefly considered a puzzle of some sort based on chimes or bells, of differing pitch - either trying to emulate a particular sequence, 'Simon Says'-style, or trying to crack a randomised 'code' among them. Either way, the wrong solution would spawn a swarm of enemies. xp Perhaps having the enemies themselves give the clues (animated bells, perhaps?), and then having to emulate the pattern they died in on the tower chimes. As long as it spawns a number of enemies equal to the number of crewmembers you have, then even if it requires one player per-chime, you'd always be able to complete the pattern...
What about killing the animated in the pattern you'd be instructed to aim for? (like when entering an instance, you'd hear the bells chiming in a randomized sequence - then you'd have to kill the bells in that order*). Sun fluffs or something might be used to represent daytime (might be too close to the whole solar/lunar fluff idea that's been scattered around for awhile), or maybe "Sun Flowers", or animated formed from Solar Panels (with electricity themed attacks). What about fighting on a clock face (having it flat horizontal would be best, I'd think** - maybe the clock face fell off of the bell tower when a bunch of it animated, and now it is the first guard to the rest of the tower, blocking entrance to the door), where the second hand attacks with a sweeping AoE as it goes around. People would have to avoid getting in its way as it spun around (it would be neat, but not necessary, if its rotation fit with the gaia clock cycle). This could be used to separate out players (like a kind of revolving door) maybe too. *Or maybe, (might make it so you have some kind of recorder or something you could use to replay the sound again in game - some spot or thing to use that will just replay it for you, or the chime order played every now and then by the environment), have you just have to hit each one in that order, and then the bells would die. They'd have crazy high health, so just beating them down normally would work, but would be exhausting and tricky (and you'd have a lot of times to try to hit them in the right order). They'd be rather relatively harmless, so people wouldn't feel too pressured to strike at random. **Although having it be vertical, and instead having the second hand sweep players up more, where they could get in range of things to attack or reach, then drop them back down on the other side [maybe with a fixed damage (or, a weight influenced one) for when they fell down]).
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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:47 am
Atrash the Squidmonger What about killing the animated in the pattern you'd be instructed to aim for? (like when entering an instance, you'd hear the bells chiming in a randomized sequence - then you'd have to kill the bells in that order*). Sun fluffs or something might be used to represent daytime (might be too close to the whole solar/lunar fluff idea that's been scattered around for awhile), or maybe "Sun Flowers", or animated formed from Solar Panels (with electricity themed attacks). What about fighting on a clock face (having it flat horizontal would be best, I'd think** - maybe the clock face fell off of the bell tower when a bunch of it animated, and now it is the first guard to the rest of the tower, blocking entrance to the door), where the second hand attacks with a sweeping AoE as it goes around. People would have to avoid getting in its way as it spun around (it would be neat, but not necessary, if its rotation fit with the gaia clock cycle). This could be used to separate out players (like a kind of revolving door) maybe too. *Or maybe, (might make it so you have some kind of recorder or something you could use to replay the sound again in game - some spot or thing to use that will just replay it for you, or the chime order played every now and then by the environment), have you just have to hit each one in that order, and then the bells would die. They'd have crazy high health, so just beating them down normally would work, but would be exhausting and tricky (and you'd have a lot of times to try to hit them in the right order). They'd be rather relatively harmless, so people wouldn't feel too pressured to strike at random. **Although having it be vertical, and instead having the second hand sweep players up more, where they could get in range of things to attack or reach, then drop them back down on the other side [maybe with a fixed damage (or, a weight influenced one) for when they fell down]). Love the solar panel Sun Flower idea! Also like the notion of tying the clocktower time to GST. Weight-based fall damage... That'll make people think twice before using Density or Halo.
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 5:50 pm
Thard_Verad Ever played Kirby's Adventure (NES, remade as Kirby: Nightmare in Dreamland for GBA)? One of the bosses was the sun and moon, and they took turns battling Kirby. Plus, while one was on the ground, the one in the sky would often bring down a support attack (producing the stars necessary for the pink puff to inhale and shoot back for victory) Gaia has sun and moon items, right? Animate a couple of those maybe. I'm all for adding a timer to the puzzles. My thinking is to have two doors leading out of each timed room. Finish before time expires and you get the preferred path onward. Finish late and you get penalized. Miss a valuable treasure chest, navigate a treacherous obstacle course, get stuck with a nasty debuff for the next hour, randomly daze one person in the crew, etc....
The boss, as I'd imagined it, was actually something like this - albeit more... Animated? sweatdrop
The 'top' wall ('back wall'?) of the boss's room would have a semicircular cutout, through which only one of the two faces was visible at any given time. I'd really like there to be some way to trigger the switch between the two (though, something reasonably difficult - I don't want the player having complete control over the boss), but I can't think of precisely what that might be, at the moment... sweatdrop
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:37 pm
hmm, not sure if this has already been mentioned or not, but considering the fact that the clock tower is the tallest building around, it would most likely be composed of multiple rooms, and in order to traverse to the next room you have to do something to unlock or uncover a staircase that leads to the next room, and so on until you finally reach the top room, which i would think would have a bunch of gears in it and stuff since it is a clock. as for the boss part, maybe it could be like a monster with different forms/stages, the first stage would be fighting either the sun or moon, then the second stage would be fighting the remaining one (if the sun was fought first then you would fight the moon, etc) and then the final stage could be like an eclipse sort of thing, where the moon and sun come together to form one stronger entity, or maybe it could just be you having to fight them both at the same time.
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:47 pm
cnoisy hmm, not sure if this has already been mentioned or not, but considering the fact that the clock tower is the tallest building around, it would most likely be composed of multiple rooms, and in order to traverse to the next room you have to do something to unlock or uncover a staircase that leads to the next room, and so on until you finally reach the top room, which i would think would have a bunch of gears in it and stuff since it is a clock. as for the boss part, maybe it could be like a monster with different forms/stages, the first stage would be fighting either the sun or moon, then the second stage would be fighting the remaining one (if the sun was fought first then you would fight the moon, etc) and then the final stage could be like an eclipse sort of thing, where the moon and sun come together to form one stronger entity, or maybe it could just be you having to fight them both at the same time.
In fact, the suggestion is just that: you'd have a number of 'floors', each with its own particular puzzle to solve. You'd progress higher up the clocktower, encountering various clock- or time-themed enemies (Animated cogs, Animated bells - anyone want a hunchback in the belltower? xp ), and a slightly different challenge to complete each time. We'd want to avoid puzzles that lose their challenge after the first success, though, so that slightly limits the number of options we have for those, in general.
As I posited above, the Sun and Moon enemies actually are one enemy - just separate faces of it. I hadn't really expected them to have separate Health bars, or the like - simply different aspects of one boss. I suppose it could be a good finale to have both of them show up simultaneously (and thus have access to both the Sun's high damage abilities, and the Moon's control and life gain), but I'm not sure, really, how necessary that is. If it'd actually make the fight more interesting, though, I'd be for it...
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:13 pm
Red Kutai cnoisy hmm, not sure if this has already been mentioned or not, but considering the fact that the clock tower is the tallest building around, it would most likely be composed of multiple rooms, and in order to traverse to the next room you have to do something to unlock or uncover a staircase that leads to the next room, and so on until you finally reach the top room, which i would think would have a bunch of gears in it and stuff since it is a clock. as for the boss part, maybe it could be like a monster with different forms/stages, the first stage would be fighting either the sun or moon, then the second stage would be fighting the remaining one (if the sun was fought first then you would fight the moon, etc) and then the final stage could be like an eclipse sort of thing, where the moon and sun come together to form one stronger entity, or maybe it could just be you having to fight them both at the same time.
In fact, the suggestion is just that: you'd have a number of 'floors', each with its own particular puzzle to solve. You'd progress higher up the clocktower, encountering various clock- or time-themed enemies (Animated cogs, Animated bells - anyone want a hunchback in the belltower? xp ), and a slightly different challenge to complete each time. We'd want to avoid puzzles that lose their challenge after the first success, though, so that slightly limits the number of options we have for those, in general.
As I posited above, the Sun and Moon enemies actually are one enemy - just separate faces of it. I hadn't really expected them to have separate Health bars, or the like - simply different aspects of one boss. I suppose it could be a good finale to have both of them show up simultaneously (and thus have access to both the Sun's high damage abilities, and the Moon's control and life gain), but I'm not sure, really, how necessary that is. If it'd actually make the fight more interesting, though, I'd be for it...
ya for the puzzle part, if the devs could find a way to randomize the puzzles each time, then that might make it a bit more challenging because you won't know what your gonna get. and im sure it would definitely make it more challenging if you had to fight them at the same time, but ya there are a bunch of different possibilities with this idea
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Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2011 10:40 pm
Red Kutai
In fact, the suggestion is just that: you'd have a number of 'floors', each with its own particular puzzle to solve. You'd progress higher up the clocktower, encountering various clock- or time-themed enemies (Animated cogs, Animated bells - anyone want a hunchback in the belltower? xp ), and a slightly different challenge to complete each time. We'd want to avoid puzzles that lose their challenge after the first success, though, so that slightly limits the number of options we have for those, in general.
As I posited above, the Sun and Moon enemies actually are one enemy - just separate faces of it. I hadn't really expected them to have separate Health bars, or the like - simply different aspects of one boss. I suppose it could be a good finale to have both of them show up simultaneously (and thus have access to both the Sun's high damage abilities, and the Moon's control and life gain), but I'm not sure, really, how necessary that is. If it'd actually make the fight more interesting, though, I'd be for it...
Yes, I definitely want to fight the Hunchbell of Notre Durem. Again, with Undermountain being the precedent, the Clocktower could have any number of randomly arranged puzzle rooms to offer up a different challenge each time. I'm all for the idea of facing two seperate foes who combine into a more-powerful entity when they (or just one!) are defeated.
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