? About Religous People

[xXAyamaXx]

now please understand that i understand every one does not do this and also i relize there is a difference in religous and spiritual people. Still i must ask are they so blinded by what they are told that they refuse to use there own brain and examin and possibaly doubt there belifes? and must they soak every word out of there mouths in it to conferm to them selves that its all true? I may be wrong but i have noticed that people do this alot. what is your oppion on this?  

[Sanguina Cruenta]

Few religious people actually act that way. The people you have experience with are not representative of religious people overall. Why did you title your thread in this manner?  

[Shadows-shine]

Sanguina Cruenta

Few religious people actually act that way. The people you have experience with are not representative of religious people overall. Why did you title your thread in this manner?

This!  

[rmcdra]

Sanguina Cruenta

Few religious people actually act that way. The people you have experience with are not representative of religious people overall. Why did you title your thread in this manner?

This.  

[Cranium Squirrel]

rmcdra

Sanguina Cruenta

Few religious people actually act that way. The people you have experience with are not representative of religious people overall. Why did you title your thread in this manner?

This.

Times three.  

[Artto]

I don't know why everyone is so quick to disagree. I'm all for tolerance, but tolerance shouldn't be about not criticizing anything.

In my experience, there is a lot of truth to Ayama's statements, although the original post is a bit harsh-worded. A lot of people like to think of themselves as questioning their faith, but in reality this is not the case, I would dare to say most of the time.
In the conversations I've had with religious people, what they usually use as justification for their beliefs is what they read on some apologetics site or book. They find any argument that supports their view very convincing and don't even think about questioning it. After being presented with a counter-argument, they usually just list some other argument and don't even acknowledge the counter-argument. I've even had them use the same argument on different occasions, as if they forgot we've already discussed it. It gets frustrating to say the least.
And I had a lot of conversations with a lot of religious people, online and in real life. The ones that actually question their faith are rare, I can only remember one right now.
I must say that I don't find that the statement that "most religious people are not like that" has much truth to it. Especially if you take into account religious people in underdeveloped countries, which would be the majority of religious people. Those people don't even have the time to question their faith.

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The people you have experience with are not representative of religious people overall.

Seriously, you're trying to convince me that a group of people, who take not questioning and firm belief (i.e. faith) as a virtue, question their beliefs all the time?  

[rmcdra]

Artto

I don't know why everyone is so quick to disagree. I'm all for tolerance, but tolerance shouldn't be about not criticizing anything.

Of course.

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In my experience, there is a lot of truth to Ayama's statements, although the original post is a bit harsh-worded. A lot of people like to think of themselves as questioning their faith, but in reality this is not the case, I would dare to say most of the time.

So religious people don't really question anything that they believe most of the time? Wow you make it sound as if religious people are a bunch of robots. I guess being irreligious somehow makes you immune or less likely to not "really" question anything.

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In the conversations I've had with religious people, what they usually use as justification for their beliefs is what they read on some apologetics site or book. They find any argument that supports their view very convincing and don't even think about questioning it. After being presented with a counter-argument, they usually just list some other argument and don't even acknowledge the counter-argument. I've even had them use the same argument on different occasions, as if they forgot we've already discussed it. It gets frustrating to say the least.

That's how most people in general function when it comes to any ideological stance. Whether it be religion, culture, politics, etc..

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And I had a lot of conversations with a lot of religious people, online and in real life. The ones that actually question their faith are rare, I can only remember one right now.

Because most people don't express that they have doubts. It's part of the image that people want to maintain that they have their s**t together. If becoming irreligious correlates to "actually questioning what one believes" then the numbers are in your favor. Honestly I think most people are either conformist or anti-conformist but in reality they are two sides of the same coin.

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I must say that I don't find that the statement that "most religious people are not like that" has much truth to it. Especially if you take into account religious people in underdeveloped countries, which would be the majority of religious people. Those people don't even have the time to question their faith.

And they don't have time to question their culture, politics, etc...

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The people you have experience with are not representative of religious people overall.

Seriously, you're trying to convince me that a group of people, who take not questioning and firm belief (i.e. faith) as a virtue, question their beliefs all the time?

You'd be surprised. Most people at least in the US do question their religion but don't voice it or simply don't have a reason to question their beliefs. If you are serious about motivating people to "actually question their beliefs" you'd have to create or offer a need to do so that directly effects the individual. Most people I'd say don't go higher than need for relationship on the hierarchy of needs so you're going to have to demonstrate how religion is going to hinder an individual from getting food, shelter, safety, and/or relationship needs. Where most people do end up questioning their religion though is when it conflicts with the need self-actuation or self-esteem and are unable to figure out how to use their religion to achieve this but most people are rarely at this point except in first world countries where individuals have the luxury to do so.  

[Tiina Brown]

There are several answers to this, and i think i should point out that i count myself as religous. However, i'm also quite an odd one when it comes to religions ....
* First, what i consider to be the most common reason, because it is present, not just in all religions, but also in all political variants, and in the varieties of atheism:
You have been taught it, and your teacher wouldn't lie, right?
Questioning what you have been tought opens the pit of "have everything i've been learned been incorrect?" and "I can't call my teacher a liar.".
* Second, the second most common, as i see it, since it is sadly too widespread in the One God Faith(s), but also the dominant factor in politics:
Fear of Hell.
A bit overly dramatic when comparing it to politics, but really, not daring to question ones information, because if one do, well religously it means questioning God self .. or perhaps the powers that be, and in politics, it means accepting a different way to handle the society, thereby making the world a worse place to live in, for too many.
* Third:
Peer pressure.
Simple as that.
"What will everyone else think?"
* Fourth, the most treachorous, perhaps, and still, it is a version of the first one:
The self-certain.
"I have come to these conclusions, and i am not wrong."
I may be guilty of this, so i try to be aware, and at least try to question myself occasionally.
I have a tendency to come to the conclusion that i am still correct, though.
...But that means problem when i disagree with, for instance, Artto above, or anyone else for that matter .... oddly, i seem to agree with him here.
I mean, if i disagree with another who is self-certain, then either i'm missing something, or the other is missing something, or we may both be missing something.
The common reaction is "i'm right", but in reality, i don't know.  

[Aakosir]

I'm a little confused as to whom you are asking about. Are you asking if religious people are blind or spiritual?

There are answers to both though. The spiritual people may find their beliefs and stick with them, using beliefs from older spiritual philosophies. They may not question them because they figure it is centuries old and why would it be wrong?

And the religious people, they go off of the written records, so how would those be incorrect? They're thousands of years old too, and nothing has changed? How dare someone question their books!

Needless to say, no matter if it was written or orally passed down, some of it has changed. Also, people interpret things differently. Some take it literally.

I am constantly questioning religions and beliefs. I would consider myself spiritual since I am not completely settled.  

[Aakosir]

rmcdra

Artto

And I had a lot of conversations with a lot of religious people, online and in real life. The ones that actually question their faith are rare, I can only remember one right now.

Because most people don't express that they have doubts. It's part of the image that people want to maintain that they have their s**t together. If becoming irreligious correlates to "actually questioning what one believes" then the numbers are in your favor. Honestly I think most people are either conformist or anti-conformist but in reality they are two sides of the same coin.

This can relate to soooo many things. Politicians don't admit they are wrong. Doctor's and nurses don't like to admit they are wrong. Husband, wives, mothers, fathers, teens, et cetera.

Could you imagine if someone in the church expressed their opinion of doubt to the congregation?  

[Artto]

@rmcdra:
I completely agree with everything you wrote. Still, that makes it appear as if people don't question their faith. And that's what makes Ayama's experiences perfectly legitimate and just saying "most religious people are not like that" is flat out wrong.
But you are right, most people in general don't like to question their beliefs. They either don't care or don't want to question them. And I think that's bad, be it religion, politics or any other class of world view.
The biggest problem I have with religion is, that it often makes blind faith a virtue.

P.S.:

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They may not question them because they figure it is centuries old and why would it be wrong?

That's a horrible way of thinking biggrin  

[Aakosir]

Artto

P.S.:

Quote:

They may not question them because they figure it is centuries old and why would it be wrong?

That's a horrible way of thinking biggrin

You think? But that's how so many people think. Or atleast, that's the image they put out. But inside they really are questioning everything.  

[rmcdra]

Artto

@rmcdra:
I completely agree with everything you wrote. Still, that makes it appear as if people don't question their faith. And that's what makes Ayama's experiences perfectly legitimate and just saying "most religious people are not like that" is flat out wrong.

Fair enough more elaboration could have been given.

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But you are right, most people in general don't like to question their beliefs. They either don't care or don't want to question them. And I think that's bad, be it religion, politics or any other class of world view.

Agreed.

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The biggest problem I have with religion is, that it often makes blind faith a virtue.

I have this problem too. Unfortunately it's a virtue for many ideologies and systems other than religion. Religion gets the most limelight for this failing since it's socially acceptable to point this failing out in Western Culture.  

[Cranium Squirrel]

rmcdra

So religious people don't really question anything that they believe most of the time?

I dunno about anyone else here, but if I -don't- question things I read or hear in regards to my faith and its tenets, I'm probably doing it wrong.

Faith for a Buddhist is something of an interesting thing - it's not simple surrender to the teachings, or words in a book. It's about getting out there, seeing for yourself, and really testing things out. Blind acceptance is something they're sort of...not fans of. Or that they're not supposed to be fans of. xd  

[rmcdra]

Byaggha

rmcdra

So religious people don't really question anything that they believe most of the time?

I dunno about anyone else here, but if I -don't- question things I read or hear in regards to my faith and its tenets, I'm probably doing it wrong.

Faith for a Buddhist is something of an interesting thing - it's not simple surrender to the teachings, or words in a book. It's about getting out there, seeing for yourself, and really testing things out. Blind acceptance is something they're sort of...not fans of. Or that they're not supposed to be fans of. xd

Sounds like we have some common ground then biggrin