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 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:49 pm
i;'ve been wondering what other mens views on abortion are...cause i have pretty good oopinions but like everyoen else, they're just opinions.
so i wanted to knwo are there any guys who feel strongly about abortion either way?.
my opoinions are
if a (for all intensive purposes, and cause it happens) 13 year old girl gets raped, or has premarridle sex, and get pregenant, i would tell ehr to get ...well..i would urge her to get an aborition
same goes for someoen who raped and is a tad bit older..if your ....say 16-18 and you get rapped, sure 18 yearolds....some anyway, can handle it and wouldn't kill it...but there are those who can't handle it..
and chances are, half the time, if its a boy, it'll look not identicle, but something like the rapist. facial features anyway.
the only real probable i'd have with abortion is if the child was almost read for birthign and they did an abortion, how they can i don't see hwo but if they can, that's really the only thing i'd see wrong with it.
but yeha what are your views men.
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:19 pm
1. This should go into Extended Discussion. NOT in a place set up for support. Please PM Nikolita and ask her to move it for you.
2. Abortions are only Legal in the first trimester. If a fetus is aborted close to birth it is for Medical reasons. For example: They may find out that the fetus does not have a brain. Or the Fetus has already died and they must take it out or it will rott and kill the mother.
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 5:50 pm
Yi Min 1. This should go into Extended Discussion.Or the Fetus has already died and they must take it out or it will rott and kill the mother.
...little too much info there, i mean im used to lokoing at carange and blood and guts and s**t i find it humorous, but ...a fetus with no brain rotting ,in a mothers stomach killing slowly, is...kinda werid more then disgusting... before i ask her to move it, how would the baby not have a brain, i though that was one of the first to develop..if its not how dose the rest of it become partly complete?
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 6:42 pm
Just as a fetus can be missing a limb it can also be missing a brain and part of it's skull. True, it should be something developing early on, but that doesn't always happen. This condition is known as anencephaly. It is also ONE of MANY birth defects that force a female to abort.
CAUTION GRAPHIC PHOTOS
anencephaly
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Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:09 pm
yeah i guess so...
i'll ask her to move the post
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:48 pm
You find blood and guts humerous? You may wish to seek out psychiatric help. I'm assuming you're just a kid still in that "it's cool to laugh at death" stage, and I really hope you grow out of it.
Rape is rape. It doesn't matter if the child ends up looking like the father or not. The reminder is still there. Looks aren't everything.
As Yi Min already mentioned, there is a huge variety of medical reasons why a woman would have to get an abortion or put her life at serious risk. And frankly, you should not ask a question and then complain that you've received too much information. You've learned something new and you should be thanking Yi Min for making you just a little smarter than you were before.
Also, as Yi Min said, the fetus cannot be aborted once it is developed enough to be called a "baby." In the abortable stage (baring serious medical reasons, of course), it is a clump of cells that cannot survive outside the woman's body. It is not an autonymus being in any sense of the word. It cannot be considered an individual any more than a mole can.
My position on men's opinions on abortions is that until they are able to carry a child full term and endure all the consequences that implies, they should have absolutly no legal say in the matter. No matter how much you can imagine or hypothesize, you simply cannot understand all the factors involved in child birth.
It's also important to remember that north america is one of the only places in the world that makes such a huge deal about abortions. In Europe (particularly Eastern Europe), they are perfectly socially acceptable and common.
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:43 pm
Kukushka You find blood and guts humerous? You may wish to seek out psychiatric help. I'm assuming you're just a kid still in that "it's cool to laugh at death" stage, and I really hope you grow out of it. Rape is rape. It doesn't matter if the child ends up looking like the father or not. The reminder is still there. Looks aren't everything. As Yi Min already mentioned, there is a huge variety of medical reasons why a woman would have to get an abortion or put her life at serious risk. And frankly, you should not ask a question and then complain that you've received too much information. You've learned something new and you should be thanking Yi Min for making you just a little smarter than you were before. Also, as Yi Min said, the fetus cannot be aborted once it is developed enough to be called a "baby." In the abortable stage (baring serious medical reasons, of course), it is a clump of cells that cannot survive outside the woman's body. It is not an autonymus being in any sense of the word. It cannot be considered an individual any more than a mole can. My position on men's opinions on abortions is that until they are able to carry a child full term and endure all the consequences that implies, they should have absolutly no legal say in the matter. No matter how much you can imagine or hypothesize, you simply cannot understand all the factors involved in child birth. It's also important to remember that north america is one of the only places in the world that makes such a huge deal about abortions. In Europe (particularly Eastern Europe), they are perfectly socially acceptable and common. yes true , all of what you posted was true...what i postd was just my opinion, oh and the blood and guts thing, no its not just a kid stage, im a month and 11 days away from my 18th. so yeah... im no kid..still have a undeveloped mind capicity yes, which is why i was also asking what the males view on the topic was.......... and to give you a view of how much..."psychiatric help" i need, i goto 1 councler a week...(hes an old one from when i threatened to do mysel fin during 8th grade, but hes kool) and i go to a psychiatrist once every three months at the hospitals mentel health center. i have to, not choose to, i HAVE to meet with the guidence councler at my school twice a week.
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:55 pm
I think it's easy to have a lofty and idealistic opinion if you will never have to deal with the situation you're sounding off on. [XD gee, where was that said before? <3 for Kukushka] So I think it's really easy for a male to say, "well only if she's raped should she be able to get this done." It's also really easy to imply that babies should be punishment for risky behavior if you'll never have to be the one stuck with the aftermath, which I'm not sure if that's where you meant to go with this, but you did come off a bit as making it sound that way. Many a male I've seen argue for being pro-life has used that trite view and it makes me cringe whenever I see it. Babies should never be punishment.
Now I'll answer for my hubby as he's not a member of the guild. From what he's told me in conversations he doesn't have a super strong opinion on abortions but seems to be pro-choice. Because abortion/reproductive rights are so closely tied into women's rights that you can't really seperate the two. To take away a woman's right to regulate her own body is taking away what makes her different from a man. But on that same note you don't see the government trying to regulate males and their reproductive systems.
So there's a 23 year old married man's opinion on it. He wouldn't ever want me to get an abortion and has always said that I have the final say on it because it's my body.
Now onto some of the other things you've said...I'm not sure where you're pulling this 'fact' out about male children more likely resembling their male parents but that sounds like you just made it up out of thin air. All children are the genetic average of their parents and regardless of gender they'll have attributes of each. I personally know a woman who was raped at age 16 and kept her baby regardless and has been happy to have done so but not everyone will feel that way and they should be free to decide on that.
And you'd be amazed at what can go wrong during a pregnancy. In general the body will catch major defects like no brain or other problems and miscarry a pregnancy before the 14 week mark but it doesn't always happen. I had a friend who had to have a second trimester 'partial birth' abortion because they discovered at her ultra sound that her baby had major problems among them a barely developed brain, missing an arm, a leg and problems with the ones the child did have. They said the baby would have been a still born or dead within hours because they were that badly misformed. So while it seems kind of gross, yes, things like that do indeed happen and sometimes the body doesn't catch them and terminate the pregnancy on its own.
And for more trivia on weird things that can happen during pregnancy, my hubby saw a show on the Discovery channel last week about a women in Pakistan [I think it was] who had been pregnant for years and not known it. Her baby had died around the 4 month mark and her body never cleaned it out and actually petrified the thing and she had to have it surgically removed. She realized something was wrong and thought she might be pregnant but she never gave birth and didn't get medical attention right away and it was before she'd feel movement. But that does show that fetuses can die in utero and never get cleaned out on their own making abortions necessary.
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 4:50 pm
Pirate Dirge I'm not sure if that's where you meant to go with this, but you did come off a bit as making it sound that way. no i was't intending it to go that way, but now that i've read what i wrote for the 54th time, i can see where you going with it.... Pirate Dirge
Because abortion/reproductive rights are so closely tied into women's rights that you can't really seperate the two. To take away a woman's right to regulate her own body is taking away what makes her different from a man. But on that same note you don't see the government trying to regulate males and their reproductive systems.ODINS SPEAR!!! i never thought that ...s**t how could i overlooked that one....
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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2006 5:49 pm
Pirate Dirge
Because abortion/reproductive rights are so closely tied into women's rights that you can't really seperate the two. To take away a woman's right to regulate her own body is taking away what makes her different from a man. But on that same note you don't see the government trying to regulate males and their reproductive systems.Not entirely true. It has been done and continues to be done, for better or worse. For example, it is my understanding that many sex offenders are chemically castrated, though that practice may have stopped. On the flipside though, when Indira Gandhi was prime minister of India, she began a campaign of public "sanitation", which sought to eliminate vagrancy by castrating homeless men and women against their will. My feelings on abortion are mixed. Rape and danger to the mother are given; under those circumstances, I think abortion is a viable option. But I feel that if you are going to have unprotected sex, you'd best be prepared for the consequences of your actions. On the third hand, there will always be unwanted pregnancies, and while adoption is an option, it's a very socially stigmatizing thing. I guess, in the end, it comes down to spiritual beliefs. Is an unborn baby 'human'? Does it have a soul? Biologically, it is not a human. A fetus is anatomically and physiologically different from a human, at least up until the second trimester. So, I'm fine with abortion up to the end of the first trimester. As a man, I believe that men should also take responsibility for their actions. I think it should be criminal not to provide support for a child you father and the mother. Real men are there for their families. P.S.: You know what sucks? Every year here, during Race for the Cure (An event to raise money for breast cancer research), a bunch of idiots dress up like dead presidents and hold signs that say "Abortion Causes Breast Cancer". Jackasses.
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:38 pm
You say that people who have unprotected sex need to take responsibility for their actions. What about the people who have protected sex, who are extremely careful, and just get unlucky? What about the people who used a condom every single time, or took the pill every single day (or even both)?
I can assure you that there are plenty of them out there. Consider that condoms are 99.9% effective if used properly. That means that once out of every 1000 times someone has sex in the world using a condom, they will get pregnant. How many billions of people are there in the world? How many millions of times in a day does someone somewhere have sex? Those aren't good odds at all.
Adoption may be an option, but it's a difficult one. As you said, it can be socially stigmatizing. People see you pregnant and then... what? Where's the baby? You think people at work or school won't ask about that? How difficult do you think it must be for a young girl who is probably feeling a lot of guilt and loss already to have to face questions and the lectures that often go with them? At least for an abortion, it can be over with before your body has changed enough that every Tom, d**k, and Harry knows that you are pregnant.
Not to mention how difficult being an orphan can be. There are plenty of wonderful stories of kids who were adopted into loving homes and had very happy lives. But what about all the kids who aren't? What about all the kids who grow up in an orphanage with no one to really love them? Not to mention how dangerous and unhealthy orphanages are in most of the world (just to give an example, Russian orphanages and prisons have tuberculosis outbreaks regularly).
And, of course, what is it like to be an orphan? I have known two people who were adopted. Both had imense troubles dealing with the fact that their biological parent didn't want them (for whatever reason). Both struggled greatly and spent a lot of money and time in therapy. One, when he married, when through a crisis because he didn't know his family's medical history or what diseases he might pass on to his potential children (and finally decided to err on the side of just not having any kids of his own). This problem can be just as bad simply in not knowing the father (as in some cases of rape).
So yeah, adoption is an option. It's just not always the best option. Sometimes it's better just to flush the pregnancy out before it even becomes a fetus (I'm sorry, but a couple hundred cells together in a clump is not eligible to have a soul in my opinion).
I do agree that men need to take responsibility.
And finally, when is a human "alive"? When is it "dead"? I'm taking a course at the moment called "Death and the Afterlife" and we've spent a long time discussing when a human can be considered dead. In many cultures, a person is not considered dead until the funeral rites have been performed. Before then, they are said to be "sleeping" and will be kept in their family house in bed and treated as though they are sick. In other cultures, a person is considered "dead" as soon as he/she can no longer work. And, of course, the other question that brings up is when is someone considered "alive"? I have seen a child who was born just two weeks after the legal cut off date for an abortion and lived. He is now a healthy young kid. Of course, he needed extensive medical care and was in the hospital until well after the original due date.
I think that we have to make a cut off somewhere. In Canada, if a child reaches the third trimester, the family is legally obligated to hold a funeral if anything happens. Before then, the fetus can be disposed of like any other waste. This implies that before the third trimester, it is not a human. I think that makes sense.
If you get caught up in the "potential" life (which, to be realistic, is all a small clump of cells is), then you can just go further and further back. Mourn every period as the loss of a potential baby. Mourn every wet dream or ejaculation. It all just starts to get ridiculous. If most people within a society wouldn't hold a full funeral for someone prior to a certain level of development, I think it's ok to have an abortion.
That was rambly. My apologies.
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Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:35 pm
Kukushka You say that people who have unprotected sex need to take responsibility for their actions. What about the people who have protected sex, who are extremely careful, and just get unlucky? What about the people who used a condom every single time, or took the pill every single day (or even both)?
My hubby had a dorm mate who twice in one year, with his GF taking the pill religiously and using condoms with spermicide, managed to get her pregnant. Each time they had to abort the fetus they were tore up about it but they were in no position to start a family. In GPG we have several members who had multiple pregnancies occur while they were taking their birth control pills correctly. Abortions don't only happen due to unprotected sex, they also happen everyday to people who are trying their best to not get pregnant and being totally responsible about it.
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 5:28 pm
Pirate Dirge Kukushka You say that people who have unprotected sex need to take responsibility for their actions. What about the people who have protected sex, who are extremely careful, and just get unlucky? What about the people who used a condom every single time, or took the pill every single day (or even both)?
My hubby had a dorm mate who twice in one year, with his GF taking the pill religiously and using condoms with spermicide, managed to get her pregnant. Each time they had to abort the fetus they were tore up about it but they were in no position to start a family. In GPG we have several members who had multiple pregnancies occur while they were taking their birth control pills correctly. Abortions don't only happen due to unprotected sex, they also happen everyday to people who are trying their best to not get pregnant and being totally responsible about it.Ummm . . . Vermatitis there will always be unwanted pregnancies . . . I said in my first post, though probably not too coherently, that if an unwanted pregnancy occurs despite the wishes of the parents that it is ethical to get an abortion, at least by my standards.
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Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:35 pm
I don't care. Its your body, let them do what they want. I say legalize it and leave it to the people to choose. I don't personally advocate it, but they should be able to do it.
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Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 11:23 pm
I'm a guy and strongly pro-choice. It's her body and she should be allowed to do what she wants with it, as long as it's not the third trimester. It could be born and survive, with a lot of hardships, at that point. I don't know how I feel about the second trimester and I'll leave that to someone more informed than me. I'ld like to finish by saying that I personally strongly appose abortion. It disgusts me. I wouldn't want my child aborted, but nonetheless ti's not my right to force my beliefs on anyone else. I hope I haven't offended anyone.
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