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rmcdra
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:54 pm


Leviticus and Deuteronomy do not apply if you are a Christian.
That's right. If you are a Christian you don't need to be following the laws of Leviticus or Deuteronomy. It's pointless for a number of reasons. The first reason being that most Christians are Gentiles, not Jews. The Laws of Leviticus and Deuteronomy were written specifically for the children of Israel (i.e. Jew).

Evidence concerning this.
Deuteronomy 1
1 These are the words Moses spoke to all Israel in the desert east of the Jordan—that is, in the Arabah—opposite Suph, between Paran and Tophel, Laban, Hazeroth and Dizahab. 2 (It takes eleven days to go from Horeb to Kadesh Barnea by the Mount Seir road.)

3 In the fortieth year, on the first day of the eleventh month, Moses proclaimed to the Israelites all that the LORD had commanded him concerning them. 4 This was after he had defeated Sihon king of the Amorites, who reigned in Heshbon, and at Edrei had defeated Og king of Bashan, who reigned in Ashtaroth.


Concerning Leviticus it's painfully clear that the people being addressed are the Israelites, not the Gentiles.
Leviticus 1
1 The LORD called to Moses and spoke to him from the Tent of Meeting. He said, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When any of you brings an offering to the LORD, bring as your offering an animal from either the herd or the flock.


Leviticus 4
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'When anyone sins unintentionally and does what is forbidden in any of the LORD's commands-


Leviticus 7
22 The LORD said to Moses, 23 "Say to the Israelites: 'Do not eat any of the fat of cattle, sheep or goats.
.
.
.
28 The LORD said to Moses, 29 "Say to the Israelites: 'Anyone who brings a fellowship offering to the LORD is to bring part of it as his sacrifice to the LORD.


Leviticus 11
1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat:


Leviticus 12
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'A woman who becomes pregnant and gives birth to a son will be ceremonially unclean for seven days, just as she is unclean during her monthly period.


Leviticus 15
1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'When any man has a bodily discharge, the discharge is unclean.


Leviticus 17
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to Aaron and his sons and to all the Israelites and say to them: 'This is what the LORD has commanded:


Leviticus 18
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the Israelites and say to them: 'I am the LORD your God.


Leviticus 19
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Speak to the entire assembly of Israel and say to them: 'Be holy because I, the LORD your God, am holy.


Leviticus 20
1 The LORD said to Moses, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'Any Israelite or any alien living in Israel who gives any of his children to Molech must be put to death. The people of the community are to stone him.


Leviticus 21
24 So Moses told this to Aaron and his sons and to all the Israelites.


There's many many more but I think I got the point across.

So what you may be asking are not Christians the "new" Israelites and are not Gentiles required to follow all those rules and regulations. No and we have Peter and Paul to thank for that.

I must give credit to Nines19 for reminding me of this passage.
Acts 15:
5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."

6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."
The Laws of Deuteronomy and Leviticus are the yokes Christians are not required to bear.

Colossians 2
13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

So all you Christians that require other Christians and non-Christians to follow the Laws of Moses are essentially pissing on Christ's sacrifice to you.

Galatians 3
10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law." 11Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith." 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them." 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree." 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.


So the Law is a curse? Wow if that's not a bold condemnation I don't know what is.

Galatians 3
23Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed. 24So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.


No longer under supervision of the Law? Again the Law being shown to be unnecessary.

Romans 6
11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.


Again Gentiles are not under the Law.

Romans 7
4So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. 5For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. 6But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.


So why does specifically Leviticus not apply? Well Christ is the new High Priest for Christians according to Hebrews 7 but there's a verse in there that makes it painfully clear that the Laws for the Israelites do not apply to the Christians.

Hebrews 7
18The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19(for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
That's right the Law is weak and useless and this is not Paul's general ramblings here, since Paul was asked not to preach to the Hebrews if we remember our Bible history (Galatians 2:9).

Finally it is detrimental to follow the Laws of Moses according to Paul.
2 Corinthians 3
12Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
That's right following the Laws of Moses and requiring others to follow the Laws of Moses is a stumbling block for the salvation of yourself and others.

But wait didn't Jesus say:
Quote:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill. Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest part or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place." (Matthew 5:17 NAB)

"It is easier for Heaven and Earth to pass away than for the smallest part of the letter of the law to become invalid." (Luke 16:17 NAB)
We have to take these in context. He was talking specifically to other Hebrews in these passages and we also have to consider what Law and Prophets he was talking about. The Law and Prophets he sums up in Matthew 7:12. He also goes on to say in Matthew 22:36-40
Matthew 22
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."


Even Paul knew this:

1 Corinthians 13
8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.


What about the Ten Commandments?
Well here is where things are going to get controversial. Since the 10 commandments are part of the Old Covenant, technically they don't apply either. Though they do still hold relevancy in Christianity since in most cases the 10 Commandments are mostly consistent with the Law of Agape. Granted there are circumstances where the Ten Commandments will conflict with Law of Agape and in such cases as Paul wrote in 2 Corinthians:

2 Corinthians 3
1 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

4 Such confidence we have through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.


When the Ten Commandments conflicts with fulfilling the Law of Agape, though it should be stressed that in most situations it doesn't, the Law of Agape trumps the Ten Commandments since in Christ's own words, the Law of Agape is the basis of the Law and the Prophets, if the Law and the Prophets inhibit you from following the Law of Agape then the Law is being a stumbling block to worshiping Christ.

So in closing, if you think following the Laws of Moses will strengthen your relationship with your God, more power to you, but to require other Christians to follow it or claim that someone is not Christian because they don't follow the Laws of Moses is not supported by Scripture.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:27 pm


Awesome, very well written. I'm thinking 1 Corinthians 13 might have a place in it too, but I'm a little obsessed with that chapter, so that may just be me sweatdrop

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rmcdra
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:34 pm


Thanks.

I just looked through 1 Corinthians 13 and I'm not seeing anything but I could be wrong. Post it here if you find the verse you think is relative to this.

There are some other verses from Galatians and Romans I can tack in there. Give me a sec to update it.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:44 pm


Okay added verses from Galatians since they explicitly condemn following the laws of the Old Testament. Also added verses from Romans to reinforce that the OT Laws don't apply since there's a verse or two in Romans taken out of context to defend following the OT Laws.

rmcdra
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:37 pm


rmcdra
Thanks.

I just looked through 1 Corinthians 13 and I'm not seeing anything but I could be wrong. Post it here if you find the verse you think is relative to this.

There are some other verses from Galatians and Romans I can tack in there. Give me a sec to update it.
Yeah, I usually see the "And the greatest of these is Love" bit as stating "Don't use the Law to be a d**k to your fellow man".
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:45 pm


Militant Christian
rmcdra
Thanks.

I just looked through 1 Corinthians 13 and I'm not seeing anything but I could be wrong. Post it here if you find the verse you think is relative to this.

There are some other verses from Galatians and Romans I can tack in there. Give me a sec to update it.
Yeah, I usually see the "And the greatest of these is Love" bit as stating "Don't use the Law to be a d**k to your fellow man".
Okay added the passage. That was a good one and it ties Paul back with Jesus.

rmcdra
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Ametrin

PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 3:53 am


Perfect. heart
It seems that the Christians who say we should still consider the OT laws only pick and choose a few of them anyways, only when they fit them to support their ideas. eek
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:04 am


Ametrin
Perfect. heart
It seems that the Christians who say we should still consider the OT laws only pick and choose a few of them anyways, only when they fit them to support their ideas. eek
Indeed. If you want to use it as a header, you can steal one of my favorite images that I use for legalists. pirate User Image

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Ametrin

PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 8:37 am


Heh, it's true. Though I personally have an aversion to sea food in general... except for some fish. razz
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:29 am


I've been using the Deutoronmy section for years now. However, it tends to get ignored by people arguing that the OT does not apply to Christians. They use the one verse, that gets countered with, "Well, whey do the Ten Commandments still apply." These people have no answer, when the verse that they took out of context, when put into context goes on to list the Commandments. So, thanks for putting it in there. It is such an easy one to use, I think.

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rmcdra
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:12 pm


jaden kendam
I've been using the Deutoronmy section for years now. However, it tends to get ignored by people arguing that the OT does not apply to Christians. They use the one verse, that gets countered with, "Well, whey do the Ten Commandments still apply." These people have no answer, when the verse that they took out of context, when put into context goes on to list the Commandments. So, thanks for putting it in there. It is such an easy one to use, I think.
Yeah technically the 10 commandments don't apply either but they are believed to be of divine origin since they are heavily implied by the Law of Agape and in most circumstances consistent with the Law of Agape, hence why they still hold some relevance to Christianity.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:32 pm


Okay added an update addressing the "what about the ten commandments" question.

rmcdra
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:31 am


jaden kendam
I've been using the Deutoronmy section for years now. However, it tends to get ignored by people arguing that the OT does not apply to Christians. They use the one verse, that gets countered with, "Well, whey do the Ten Commandments still apply." These people have no answer, when the verse that they took out of context, when put into context goes on to list the Commandments. So, thanks for putting it in there. It is such an easy one to use, I think.
`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore -

I just tell them that if you take the 10 commandments and see which falls under the Law of Agape. A couple fit under love God, the rest fall under love your neighbor...so really the 10 commandments are just summarized.

Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:08 am


If the ten commandments are still valid, I suppose that means we should keep the Sabbath...? question
Most of Christian denominations say that the sacred day is now Sunday plus we don't have to keep the original ceremonies of Sabbath because we have our own instead. But I don't think it's okay to replace the day and change the meaning and then say that it's the same as the original meaning in the Ten commandments? eek (I do not celebrate the Sabbath btw.)
As for the other commandments, I believe their points are covered in the New testament as well, although sometimes in different words.

Ametrin


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:21 am


Ametrin
If the ten commandments are still valid, I suppose that means we should keep the Sabbath...? question
Most of Christian denominations say that the sacred day is now Sunday plus we don't have to keep the original ceremonies of Sabbath because we have our own instead. But I don't think it's okay to replace the day and change the meaning and then say that it's the same as the original meaning in the Ten commandments? eek (I do not celebrate the Sabbath btw.)
As for the other commandments, I believe their points are covered in the New testament as well, although sometimes in different words.
`Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore -

The Law of Agape summarizes the Ten Commandments....following the Sabbath day is loving God...

Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
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