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 Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:12 am
This is meant to be an informative example of how a good cheddah can go bad.
As you can see, my opponent goes for a double proxy Gateway rush situated near my nat. His first mistake was in his placement. True, my Zerglings at the tower couldn't see it but my Overlord did, as would the Roaches when they moved out. Second, he allowed me to scout his base. I saw that it was a bit barren so I became wary and looking for the proxy Pylon. He could have done more to deny me the scout by pulling a few Probes off the line to block my entrance. Or even given me false information by starting the warp in of buildings he had no intention of completing. Would that have hurt him economically? A little, but since he was already going for an all-in it really would have made little difference.
So, parents, talk to your children about the importance of cheese. Discuss with them the potential dangers of it turning on you when not properly kept. Inform them of the fickle properties of gouda.
Remember, a good cheese is a winning cheese. 3nodding
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:34 pm
Korean + Cheese = Win
Others + Cheese = Fail
That's why Korean players on GomTV are so entertaining (and educational)
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:00 pm
  And your blatant racism is starting to piss me off.
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:13 pm
It's never a real good idea to proxy on a 4-player map, since it can really delay the rush like it did in that game. That rush probably would've got me though, since I like to FE and I deal with cheese horrendously. I quit glhfing people cause I always feel so stupid saying that to a cheeser.
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Primity Aurora Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:14 pm
racism? i don't think so. but his Korean pride is rather blatant. if you would even call it pride.
the only Korean thing relative to cheese is Korean 4WG. even the Koreans themselves have professed their hate for cheesy play as demonstrated by TSL_Rain in GSL3 and a few of oGsMC's strats in the finals.
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:33 pm
Eva: I actually haven't been cheesed all that much lately, at least not recently. And I'm trying to get back into the habit of saying that. xD
Sausage: The pride is what I'm referring to and it's not just in here. All over I see him mentioning Koreans in a way that makes it sound like he thinks he and they are superior than all others. I may be mistaken, but that is what I see.
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:50 pm
The worst cheese for me is creative cannon rushes, especially in team games. They find new and more interesting places to put them.
@Korean issue, it's just a common... slur? Profiling? idk how to put it. People tend to think Koreans are better at math, and games. Mostly Starcraft though. I imagine the reason people say it for Starcraft, is the fact it is a pro sport in South Korea, and they have tv shows and everything.
I'm also not sure, but if I had to guess, since SKorea seems to be the hub of SC, that pro SC players originated in Korea, hence why people think they are better? idk. It's all stupid, but it's all in good fun most of the time when I see it.
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:30 pm
I believe he is referring to the professional Korean players. Korean players take the game to a whole new level, that is why the rest of us are considered the foreign players. That is why the NA and Europe players go there to practice and really try to make it big.
It's not meant to be offensive, it's just truth, aside from like Jinro, Idra and perhaps Ret, our top players simply do not stack up to the Korean top players. Mind you the gap in skill is beginning to close as more foreign players begin to take the game more and more seriously, but SC will always be a Korean dominated game.
Koreans really are good at cheesing, they know all the tricks, perfect placements and the key ways to win dirty, which is why Jinro was considered such a favourite to win. He's not much of a cheeser, but definitely unique and well played.
That's why IdrA is such a strong player, he's facing against some of the most deadly cheese plays, and he wins by forcing Koreans to play longer games that they aren't use to.
I feel like in Korea they are playing the same way the rest of us were playing during beta, just doing it a lot better, so while I feel like they might be a bit behind in development with the game, they have perfected what they already got well beyond what we had accomplished before.
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:55 pm
C4D I believe he is referring to the professional Korean players. Korean players take the game to a whole new level, that is why the rest of us are considered the foreign players. That is why the NA and Europe players go there to practice and really try to make it big. It's not meant to be offensive, it's just truth, aside from like Jinro, Idra and perhaps Ret, our top players simply do not stack up to the Korean top players. Mind you the gap in skill is beginning to close as more foreign players begin to take the game more and more seriously, but SC will always be a Korean dominated game. Koreans really are good at cheesing, they know all the tricks, perfect placements and the key ways to win dirty, which is why Jinro was considered such a favourite to win. He's not much of a cheeser, but definitely unique and well played. That's why IdrA is such a strong player, he's facing against some of the most deadly cheese plays, and he wins by forcing Koreans to play longer games that they aren't use to. I feel like in Korea they are playing the same way the rest of us were playing during beta, just doing it a lot better, so while I feel like they might be a bit behind in development with the game, they have perfected what they already got well beyond what we had accomplished before. It's interesting how different the playstyles are between Korea and the rest of the world. Most Koreans, from what I've seen, do early harass and pushing, and doing, "All in" builds. Where NA seems to do a more macro heavy game.
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:58 pm
From my experience (more in BW than in SC2) Koreans like to do aggressive openings and rely on superior mechanics to pull through in the mid-game/late-game if the early aggression does not work.
And Koreans are typically thought to be better because they won everything in BW, lol. Not since the beginning have foreigners competed with the Koreans.
There is a bit of a resurgence in foreigners for SC2, but it is important to remember that a ton of Korean pros, especially at the highest level, still play BW and haven't made the switch.
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Primity Aurora Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:05 pm
though it may seem that way, it's only because the Koreans have practically developed a 6th sense for timing windows. they know exactly when to attack with what unit composition depending on what circumstances, and exploit it as much as they can. so what really appears to be early aggression is simply a timing push.
i don't know exactly if the foreigner players have honed their skills similarly to know exactly when timings are, but it's probably a reason why they prefer to play heavy macro instead: because they don't know when all the timings are, and instead play passive-macro until they know they have an advantage.
but like I said before, I don't know. maybe Ret and HuK know exactly when timings are. or maybe the trend is true that foreigners really just like to play a more macro-oriented game.
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Posted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:16 pm
Bi Dent though it may seem that way, it's only because the Koreans have practically developed a 6th sense for timing windows. they know exactly when to attack with what unit composition depending on what circumstances, and exploit it as much as they can. so what really appears to be early aggression is simply a timing push.
i don't know exactly if the foreigner players have honed their skills similarly to know exactly when timings are, but it's probably a reason why they prefer to play heavy macro instead: because they don't know when all the timings are, and instead play passive-macro until they know they have an advantage.
but like I said before, I don't know. maybe Ret and HuK know exactly when timings are. or maybe the trend is true that foreigners really just like to play a more macro-oriented game. Well part of it right now is that the game as it is currently is rather conducive to aggressive plays like this. As I've watched pro BW in Korea for a few years now, I can safely say that many of the Korean players do like to play a lategame management style, and I think that as SC2 develops more Koreans will play this style. Even as it is currently, it is only a handful of players + the Korean ladder that gives Korean players the cheesy reputation. As the game develops and some of the weaker players are weeded out we should see less cheese.
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 3:15 am
To put my two cents in, I don't necessarily disagree with the Korea statement, but it was certainly not very tactful.
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:15 am
Also, on-topic: I don't know much about the Protoss rush timing, but I'm pretty sure this guy ******** it all up.
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:55 am
Yes, he was very bad with it. xD
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