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 Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:11 am
Since This thread concerns Christianity and Judaism in equal respect I was insure as where to place the thread, so I have placed it on the Main Page until someone's see's fit or required to move it.
The Pentateuch, The Five Books of Moses, or The Torah.
These five books, Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronamy form the Basis of the Jewish faith, and are the account of the main Theological and Historical Driving force for the nation of Israil.
My question is simple though, how many Christians or Jew's here, believe fully that these five books were authored by "Moses" himself, instead of being authored separately over a great expanse of time by varying authors.
If you do believe he did, why/how do you justify it and how do you view it in light of strong evidence to the contrary?
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Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:13 pm
I'm unclear on the details but I'm pretty sure that they weren't written by Moses.
My only real knowledge concerns Genesis which was a collection of the various Semetic/Babylonian myths floating around that were either Hebrew in origin or given a Hebrew monolatralist slant favoring YHVH and the Hebrew people over other tribes and civilizations.
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Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:36 pm
In most of Judaism it is believed that the original Torah was written by G-d or dictated to Moses by G-d.
But then you also get the JEPD Jews who disagree with that...
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Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 7:37 pm
rmcdra I'm unclear on the details but I'm pretty sure that they weren't written by Moses. My only real knowledge concerns Genesis which was a collection of the various Semetic/Babylonian myths floating around that were either Hebrew in origin or given a Hebrew monolatralist slant favoring YHVH and the Hebrew people over other tribes and civilizations. Babylonia would have been during the time of the Nevi'im, not the Torah.
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Posted: Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:04 pm
Lumanny the Space Jew rmcdra I'm unclear on the details but I'm pretty sure that they weren't written by Moses. My only real knowledge concerns Genesis which was a collection of the various Semetic/Babylonian myths floating around that were either Hebrew in origin or given a Hebrew monolatralist slant favoring YHVH and the Hebrew people over other tribes and civilizations. Babylonia would have been during the time of the Nevi'im, not the Torah. Forgive my mistake in wording. I mean myths from cultures that the Early Hebrew people would have been in contact with. Here's something I found on the subject http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah#Academic_analysis Scholarly discussion for much of the 20th century was principally couched in terms of the documentary hypothesis, according to which the Torah is a synthesis of documents from a small number of originally independent sources. The basic idea behind modern forms of the documentary hypothesis was formulated by Julius Wellhausen (1844–191 cool . In his analysis, the Torah was redacted from four earlier sources, dating roughly from the period of Solomon up until exilic priests and scribes. These sources were edited into one document, the Torah we know today, by scribes after the exile. * The Jahwist (or J) – written c 950 BCE. The southern kingdom's (i.e. Judah) interpretation. It is named according to the prolific use of the name "Yahweh" (or Jaweh, in German, the divine name or Tetragrammaton) in its text. * The Elohist (or E) – written c 850 BCE. The northern kingdom's (i.e. Israel) interpretation. As above, it is named because of its preferred use of "Elohim" (a generic title used to describe a god, God, or gods). * The Deuteronomist (or D) – written c 650–621 BCE. Dating specifically from the time of King Josiah of Judah and responsible for the book of Deuteronomy as well as Joshua and most of the subsequent books up to 2 Kings. * The Priestly source (or P) – written during or after the exile, c 550–400 BCE. So named because of its focus on Levitical laws. Wellahusen's ideas about the textual history of the Torah have never been accepted by critical scholars as the final word on the subject, although his basic idea that the Torah was redacted from a varoety of earlier sources is firmly accepted by academic scholars, and by many Jews and Christians. A variety of formulations see the Torah as having been compiled from a multitude of small fragments rather than a handful of large coherent source texts, or as having gradually accreted over many centuries and through many hands. The shorthand Yahwist, Priestly and Deuteronomistic is still used nevertheless to characterise identifiable and differentiable content and style. The 19th century dating of the final form of Genesis and the Pentateuch to c. 500–450 BCE continues to be widely accepted irrespective of the model adopted, although a minority of scholars known as biblical minimalists argue for a date largely or entirely within the last two centuries BCE.
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Posted: Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:17 am
rmcdra Lumanny the Space Jew rmcdra I'm unclear on the details but I'm pretty sure that they weren't written by Moses. My only real knowledge concerns Genesis which was a collection of the various Semetic/Babylonian myths floating around that were either Hebrew in origin or given a Hebrew monolatralist slant favoring YHVH and the Hebrew people over other tribes and civilizations. Babylonia would have been during the time of the Nevi'im, not the Torah. Forgive my mistake in wording. I mean myths from cultures that the Early Hebrew people would have been in contact with. Here's something I found on the subject http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torah#Academic_analysis Scholarly discussion for much of the 20th century was principally couched in terms of the documentary hypothesis, according to which the Torah is a synthesis of documents from a small number of originally independent sources. The basic idea behind modern forms of the documentary hypothesis was formulated by Julius Wellhausen (1844–191 cool . In his analysis, the Torah was redacted from four earlier sources, dating roughly from the period of Solomon up until exilic priests and scribes. These sources were edited into one document, the Torah we know today, by scribes after the exile. * The Jahwist (or J) – written c 950 BCE. The southern kingdom's (i.e. Judah) interpretation. It is named according to the prolific use of the name "Yahweh" (or Jaweh, in German, the divine name or Tetragrammaton) in its text. * The Elohist (or E) – written c 850 BCE. The northern kingdom's (i.e. Israel) interpretation. As above, it is named because of its preferred use of "Elohim" (a generic title used to describe a god, God, or gods). * The Deuteronomist (or D) – written c 650–621 BCE. Dating specifically from the time of King Josiah of Judah and responsible for the book of Deuteronomy as well as Joshua and most of the subsequent books up to 2 Kings. * The Priestly source (or P) – written during or after the exile, c 550–400 BCE. So named because of its focus on Levitical laws. Wellahusen's ideas about the textual history of the Torah have never been accepted by critical scholars as the final word on the subject, although his basic idea that the Torah was redacted from a varoety of earlier sources is firmly accepted by academic scholars, and by many Jews and Christians. A variety of formulations see the Torah as having been compiled from a multitude of small fragments rather than a handful of large coherent source texts, or as having gradually accreted over many centuries and through many hands. The shorthand Yahwist, Priestly and Deuteronomistic is still used nevertheless to characterise identifiable and differentiable content and style. The 19th century dating of the final form of Genesis and the Pentateuch to c. 500–450 BCE continues to be widely accepted irrespective of the model adopted, although a minority of scholars known as biblical minimalists argue for a date largely or entirely within the last two centuries BCE. This was my undertstanding, there are many places with Exodus, Samuel, King's were event's are re-told chapters apart, except described differently sometimes emphasis and pivotal actions being performed by completely separate characters with different general format's of writing, as though various sources and traditions a combination of oral and written had been drafted together.
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