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 Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 9:06 am
Hey, everyone. Hope everyone's enjoying their holiday break. I recently saw a True Life episode where young people shared their life with psychic/medium abilities. One girl on the show showed genuine concern about whether her latent gifts were in line with Scripture. I have not read any scripture on this matter myself and my position stands from impressions more than specific.
I do know that God has communicated to disciples through dreams and visions, and when I pray I always ask him to give me information through dreams--I have unusually vivid dreams and I'm so often distracted in my waking life I fear I'll miss the sign. I believe there is a passage that Paul (Peter? neutral starts with p) tells people to pray for spiritual gifts (like the ability to prophecy and perform miracles).
I believe that every human being has a connection to the spiritual world, most evident through our ability to pray to a Divine being and be heard. I am also aware that the devil has the ability to confuse people with an apparent clarity and light that only results in pain, suffering, and loss to the individual.
So, how does one differentiate between a psychic/medium ability as a gift from God versus one with a less pure purpose? I tend to think one sign of the latter is if it's self-seeking (greed, lust, power), but certainly there are others. How does one reconcile the modern view of a sixth sense with Christianity?
The one girl on True Life wants to help others handle grief. However, the thought of trapped souls unable to pass on concerns me greatly since it goes against the popularized belief of going directly to the hereafter. Also, the male on the episode was stricken with grief every time he connected to these "lost souls".
Are there Scriptural examples of this sort of depressive effect after connecting to the spiritual world? Are they doing God's work by crossing spirits over (Even bigger question, is why so many spirits apparently fear the afterlife and avoid the light even when raised in a Christian faith?) How can those who do not have this ability aid those in furthering God's message (or deal with those who are not)? Are there any modern day prophets, miracle workers, or otherwise spiritually gifted individuals who have made it their life's mission to further the message of God with their ability? (And if so, why have I not heard of them? xp ).
I ask you because I feel I'm in an environment where I will get intelligent and well intentioned explanations. Also, I feel that resolutely calling something demonic or evil is spiritually unhelpful and irresponsible. There is also risking the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit when it comes to some of these works.
Thanks for any and all replies!
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Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2010 11:40 am
These are some pretty deep questions, and honestly, everyone who answers will probably have a totally different take.
I'll give you my quick references from the Old Testament to kick off.
1 Samuel 28
When Saul (David's predecessor) consulted the Witch of Endor in order to contact the spirit of Samuel, he invited the wrath of God. It is implied that the witch did indeed call upon Samuel, because it doesn't say, "and a spirit who was disguised as Samuel...." ,but it actually states, "Samuel said.." in verses 15 and 16.
... and although many people believe that it was an evil spirit, not Samuel, I believe it was Samuel. The spirit gave an important message that was indeed in line with what God had previously spoken, and it did not condone Saul's actions, but condemned him for what he had done.
It also seems that the wrongdoing in this passage was not on the part of the woman who contacted Samuel, but in Saul's dependence on Samuel's word instead of God's...
Leviticus 19:31
This passage states that the children of God were not to seek out mediums for advice, or in doing so you will be defiled. It doesn't necessarily say mediums are evil, but I do believe that it is stressing that reliance on spirits other than God is a practice that corrupts the spirit.
Leviticus 20:6
...goes on to pretty much call you a spiritual whore if you seek out mediums for advice from beyond.
Deuteronomy 18:10 and 11
These verses spell out a list of practices that involve what most consider magic. They are pretty broad terms in English, but we will focus on the end of verse 11... If you take all the middle out to focus on the topic at hand, we get "Let no one be found among you who........consults with the dead."
Consult has 2 definitions the first being "to ask of", and the second being, "to have regard for". Many of today's pastors will rest on the second definition and say that anyone who regards mediums in any other light than demon-afflicted (or worse) is sorely deceived by those same demons.
Yet the Hebrew word- sha'al - that is used in Deuteronomy 18:11 actually means "to ask, enquire, borrow, beg"... so the conclusion I draw is that it is wrong to try and get information or favors from these spirits.
...as to what happens to the spirit immediately after we die... most of that is purely conjecture... There isn't enough scriptural evidence to tell us what the afterlife is going to be. Jesus never truly focused on the gritty details. He left us with similes and metaphors, and focused His teaching on what we are supposed to do and how we are supposed to be while we live. So, to get into what we think happens after we die, probably requires another thread altogether.
I do believe that the spirits of the dead can be contacted, although that doesn't necessarily mean that it they should be. I believe that people who find it easy to contact the spirits of the dead are walking a fine line of losing themselves if they think they can do good by purposely doing so. I do believe that evil spirits can deceive someone into believing they are something else.
As to other "psychic abilities", and the scriptures and references I have to discuss them...well... that will go to another post at a later time... sweatdrop
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Posted: Tue Dec 21, 2010 3:26 am
Now we are getting into talk about the difference between the Mysteries and the other stuff. Being able to access is a skill but at the same time it's not. The Mysteries, or at least what I understand of them, can be accessed by anyone and can be accessed at anytime when they are present. Where the skill comes in at is recognizing when the Mysteries are there and how you can be a vessel for the Mysteries. Matthew 5 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 1 Corinthians 12 4 There are different kinds of gifts, but the same Spirit distributes them. 5 There are different kinds of service, but the same Lord. 6 There are different kinds of working, but in all of them and in everyone it is the same God at work. 7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines. Romans 12 3 For by the grace given me I say to every one of you: Do not think of yourself more highly than you ought, but rather think of yourself with sober judgment, in accordance with the faith God has distributed to each of you. 4 For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. 6 We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. If your gift is prophesying, then prophesy in accordance with your faith; 7 if it is serving, then serve; if it is teaching, then teach; 8 if it is to encourage, then give encouragement; if it is giving, then give generously; if it is to lead, do it diligently; if it is to show mercy, do it cheerfully. Ephesians 4 11 So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13 until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. Granted to my knowledge I have never accessed the Mysteries myself except when I was saved but I have heard of individuals that have from family lore. My great grandfather could instantly heal burns and warts by placing his hand over the injury and saying a Bible verse. I think he didn't even need to be present either for it to heal. From what I understand too the only limit to this gift was that he was a distance away from the person in need, they wouldn't work if there was a body of water. As for Mosaic Law, most of you know how I feel about it, but I don't believe that we as Christians and Gentiles are under the Mosaic Code. But for those that do believe I'll address some of the passages brought up. 1 Samuel 28 has to do with the fact that Saul consulted a Gentile who normally deals with unclean spirits. She happened to get "lucky" and actually got in contact with Samuel who didn't curse him but informed him that his fate was set for disobeying YHVH's commandment. 1 Samuel 13 11 “What have you done?” asked Samuel. Saul replied, “When I saw that the men were scattering, and that you did not come at the set time, and that the Philistines were assembling at Mikmash, 12 I thought, ‘Now the Philistines will come down against me at Gilgal, and I have not sought the LORD’s favor.’ So I felt compelled to offer the burnt offering.” 13 “You have done a foolish thing,” Samuel said. “You have not kept the command the LORD your God gave you; if you had, he would have established your kingdom over Israel for all time. 14 But now your kingdom will not endure; the LORD has sought out a man after his own heart and appointed him ruler of his people, because you have not kept the LORD’s command.” Samuel was basically reaffirming this in 1 Samuel 28. Concerning Leviticus 19:31, there are quite a few words not taken into context due to the context being lost in translation. The main one being the differentiation between "clean" and "unclean" spirits. The other issue is that certain words were selected because the words at the time carried similar connotations that they don't anymore. Anyway the short and sweet, without delving into mine or Tea's guide, is to don't mess with unclean spirits, don't lie about prophesying or pass lies off as prophesy, and don't mess with other so called gods. Leviticus 20:6 needs some context. Back in the Biblical day it was common for people to get inebriated to go into a trance state so one could talk to spirits. The most common was was getting drunk on wine. In most cases it was wine used by these Gentile mediums, specifically wine that was dedicated to various Gentile gods. The Hebrews did this too but they had specific tools and Kosher requirements to keep. In context, the mediums being described here are basically those who are "drunkenly rambling" at best or worse "consulting with unclean spirits" using non-Kosher techniques. The "spiritualist" described in this verse is a piss poor translation of false prophet. Deuteronomy 18:11 uses the same word to describe this.
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