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Well, if we want to start from scratch. I shall say my opinion on drow appearance suggestions.

I don't know if this was ever changed, but to my FR knowledge, elves, including drow, are described as being handsome & beautiful along with being unable to grow beards.
I suggest we add some changes to that. Allowing drow to grow beards, and perhaps not all of them are so beautiful. Perhaps not hideously ugly, but not exactly the magnificent beings everyone imagines them being.

In addition to that, I want to suggest setting standard appearances of drow:
Dark skin in various shades, f.e. purple, red-ish, coal grey. Hair in light colours, not just shades of white/grey but also yellow, brown and perhaps even a rare light blue (like in a particular region, or clan). The most common colour for eyes should stay red, in my opinion and in other warm colours like shades of yellow and orange. The most rare eye colour being violet. And anything else is uncommon, and may not be pure-blooded drow.

Them living underground, they should stay short. F.e. 180cm / 5'10'' being extremely tall and rare for a drow. Possibly even of mixed blood with surface elves or humans. Their bodies small, but athletic in aims to survive the dangers of he caverns.

@Chemosh: how does a fly resemble a slave? Also, individuals not controlling the ring who happend to be priestesses of Lolth can also affect slaves of the ring... at will and unlimited by ring uses? Slightly unbalanced, but a good idea; I would remove the ability of non-wearers to be able to affect those embedded with hetracs. But, let's not go into magic items just yet. Let's try to hash out one subject at a time, going from simple generalizations toward specific complexities. This way, we can actually start the RP's back up even before this is finished. smile

@Aglo, great topic to start with!

Let's just start with skin color before going into height and eyes...

I think "drow" dark elves should specifically be defined as having jet black skin and white hair. I think also though, that any other elven breed should be able to mate with drow and produce viable offspring, thus making it possible for different colorations of skin in a given drow population. Keep in mind, drow is a human (common) language word and not used by drow themselves. All elves refer to themselves by whatever word in their dialect of elven applies. In FR, drow call themselves illythiiri and they call surface elves darthiir. We do not have to use these names in our version of the language as we can make up what we wish (and I think we should). The point is, "drow" and "dark elf" are human categories for elves, not elven categories for themselves. This is why I think drow should remain jet black as a general rule, because humans see a jet-black elf and say, oh that must be a drow. Even two groups of jet-black elves may refer to themselves by different names if their dialects differ. So color is by breed, we should label them the same way we might refer to horses. If the horse has an all white coat, we call it a "gray" despite the fact that it's parents may not have the same breed markings.

Okay, so that's where I stand, drow = jet-black skin to me, however I definitely would like to see Aglo's other skin colors allowed for elven breeds, and even see them occur in drow of mixed blood.

Counter arguments most welcome, don't be shy... POST!

@Chem: where'd you pick up the word Dhaerow from? Did you make that up? smile

Also, FYI, I actually own copies of the Greyhawk sources which make Greyhawk drow eye color primarily yellow (most common), amber and violet (rarest), whith no red occurring in these sources ever. Later Greyhawk sources change it to red universally. Personally, I'm inclined to go with Aglo's suggestion of making red dominant and other colors possible through admixture.

More input on skin color anyone?

Thanks Chem. It seems Smedman was trying to invent a fictional etymology for the word "drow" by using her word dhaerow as a progressive term. Due to the nature of the story of the fall (one version has it that all drow were struck black by Corellon at once, and another version has it that Lolth marked them thus as a sign of her patronage and their are other versions), I'd say, what word the surface elves use to describe non-standard drow is probably irrelevant at this stage. I'm hoping we can sort out elven (including drow) skin color options at this point, let's go ahead and ignore the nomenclature just yet.

I will reiterate what we've got so far...

1) I personally want to see elves not include darker human tones (like tan or dark brown) so that they are unique from humans. Please share your opinion on this.

2) Also, Aglo seems to want elves to be able to have fatastic skin color possibilities to include purples, which I think is probably a good idea. What additional fantastic colors should we allow for elves in our world?

3) We all probably accept that elves can have jet-black (or coal-black) skin so this probably doesn't need discussing much.

4) I suggest that half-elves can include any skin color trait from the non-elf parent which would not normally be available to pure strain elves (example, a dark brown skinned human parent would allow for a dark brown skinned half-elf but that no pure elf would have dark brown skin). Agree with this or no?

So, how does everyone feel about the above issues?

I like Chemosh's idea regarding skin tones...

Without deviating too much onto the topic of half-elves... I just wanna say that I don't think elves should be able to produce viable offspring with anything other than humans, other elves and half-elves. A half-ogre half-elf is something I'd rather not consider and makes my brain hurt.

As to regional color schemes, I'd rather avoid tan and brown-skinned pure-blooded elves. For identity and simplicity, I prefer surface sub-races to either have fair skin or pale skin; not tan or dark brown. Again, I'm trying to stay away from complexity, but that's just my opinion so feel free to argue it.

Whether the cause of purple skin be Faerzress or not, we don't have to decide. We can say some scholars make that claim, while others aren't so sure; it doesn't matter. The question is, do we actually want a sub-race of purple skinned, and a sub-race of blue (or greyish-blue) skinned elves? Are they gonna be Lineage II type elves, call themselves Dun Mer, and the whole business that goes along with that? If so, someone better be prepared to contribute and document all the info for that if it is to be considered canon.

Let's keep in mind, if you want something to be included in canon, you should be prepared to do some work documenting it. I for one, like to keep things simple at first. For each race, skin color, detail, whatever.

The initial reason to have this canon is to say "this is how elves look and behave, etc." That way if someone wants to be different, they will have to justify it. This isn't an attempt to set each little nuance and deviation from the norm into stone... it's simpley to set up some norms in our own community so people know what those norms are rather than have to hunt down various conflicting information on different wikis for worlds that have nothing to do with ours.

Speaking of our world... we need to figure out what it is. I initially in the beginning wanted it to be tied in with Gaia (which would neccessitate it being very unserious and chibi-ish), but since people seem to want serious RP, it seems kind of silly to say Ulorbbath lies below Barton town.

If we're gonna be all UG IZ SRZ BZNS, then, we really ought to eliminate all references to Gaia towns and Gaia itself. But then why the name "UnderGaia" if that? Philosophical question someone else is going to have to answer, because I've always voted for the chibi silly underdark of Gaia.

And, on that note, i know, seems kind of like I'm being a sour puss, but I want to add, that we don't seem to have too many people biting on this topic. Might be better to just drop it and move all the canon discussion into archives/recycle bin. confused

That makes senses, I was just wondering in an overall term. I mean, in terms of humans the light you skin tone, the better off you are considered to be. Would it be the same for elves or would be it be different depending on area.

As for the whole lack of tan to brown skinned elves, I wouldn't mind helping to create them. I would be willing to put in the work, since it would different from how most people see elves. Most people see fair or pale skin on elves, but what would a race of tan or dark skinned elves be like?
I would love to explore that....along with how they related with other elves. Where they could live. How they live? It would be fun, to explore that culture and those types of elves. I would do all the complex work, though giving them a name will be tough.