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PostPosted: Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:48 pm


What IS freedom? If one man lives the rest of hi life in a prison cell with no windows, and another man lives in a similar cell, with one small window, that man is more free than the first. However, could you really call that man free? He is still locked in the cell forever.

I think this is how people are seeing America these days. The political parties are so intent on arguing what is "free" and what is "right" that they miss the entire point of democracy: To have multiple points of view.

How can we tell ourselves we are free in an era that restricts our access to first amendment rights? Just because we don't hunt down people that are a certain ethnicity like other countries, doesn't mean that our government passing laws by people who don't want us to even THINK a racist thought is ANY more free. People are losing the right to think for themselves and are being told what to think. Whether or not that is a moral issue is not up to the government to decide. The government was established to uphold and maintain laws that protect people's rights. NOT cater to one political party over another.

People are allowed to have their own opinions. People CAN believe, they have the RIGHT to believe, that soldiers can go to hell. I believe people have that right but it shouldn't be forced on people.

Kind of like homosexuality. I can think it's immoral, or I can think it's perfectly ok. But when people shove it down your thoats (metaphorically and literally... >.>), it's just defeating the point!

Liberals want to take away freedom of speech so that people can't have their own ideas about things without being punished.

Conservatives are exactly the same! They want everyone to conform to their views of life and live their lives.

Both groups are just as hurtful to society. sad Washington was against political parties because of the conflict that would emerge. And this is a perfect example of that!

I believe in a "live and let live" society, in which people are entitled to their opinions without having to suffer consequences for thinking a certain way. That's why we HAVE the first amendment. So we can have these individual thoughts! Not be punished as a racist for not agreeing with Obama's policies! Not for having our churches vandalized because a church doesn't believe homosexuality is a sin!

People CAN THINK THOSE THINGS! People are allowed to have racist thoughts! People are allowed to disagree with the president as well! People CAN be homosexual! People CAN do whatever they want with their lives!

It's when those actions are taken to a degree in which it breaks a law or is harmful to society that the government or civil groups should take action!

Notice the word CIVIL. People should have a valid argument, and not have to worry about people trolling and making worthless arguments based solely on emotion, and not on logic.

Emotion is corruptable. Logic isn't!

I'm Mormon. I think homosexuality is weird and not my thing. But people are allowed to live homosexually! That's their right! I shouldn't criticize them for their lifestyle. I can make it known that I don't support it and I don't practice it myself. But I won't judge the PEOPLE based on that factor! If they're living their life and not hurting me, or shoving acceptance of homosexuality down my thoat (again, metaphorically and HOPEFULLY not literally >.>), I shouldn't be infringing on their freedoms!

Which brings me to another thing I CANNOT stand! Acceptance is different than tolerance! You can tolerate a practice without accepting it! I can pray to bless my food before eating and atheists shouldn't look at me in disgust for being "ignorant". Likewise, atheists shouldn't have to not go to church and be shunned as "filthy" or "unholy". You should tolerate people's beliefs! You don't HAVE to accept it!

However, once again, we're arguing in "should"-land. People shouldn't do a lot of things. But they have the right to, yes? Of course they do! That's what we call a liberty we have here in America. I SHOULD look at black and white equally, but I don't HVAE to. I have the right to feel how I like. It's when looking at the two races unequally to a point it physically, emotionally, or economically hurts them that legal charges should be filed.

Maybe I'm just ranting because I have political parties that push things to an extreme. Maybe I hate that people are called ignorant on both sides for how they think. Maybe I just happen to love my constitution and my Bill of Rights. I don't know.

This is just what I believe as a person.

Am I wrong to think people should be allowed to think whatever they want, whether it's morally wrong or not? Am I wrong to believe that strict religious individuals CAN coexist with atheists in harmony?

Is it wrong to take such libertarian principles to such an extreme, if that's even possible????

I'm an 18 year old and I know little of politics, compared to the majority of educated society. And the fact that this is like, SUPER unorganized probably doesn't help haha. But if I am flawed, how am I flawed? How can I imagine a society that IS the Utopia that we strive for?? Help me out here...  
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:17 pm


We all want Utopia, but I doubt that's ever going to happen. MAYBE if each country only had like-minded people {Not for segregation, but to stop hate}. I think that's a silly idea, even. Life would be boring.

But I agree. I honestly despise political parties. I am just me with my views. That's what everyone should be. People are insane. They vote based on parties, not views. They don't care about views, only parties. Unless we're talking the opponent of whom they vote for. Then their views are terrible and wrong. How exactly can those be wrong, anyways?

I think politics is ruining our country, honestly.

violette lumineux


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:36 pm


I certainly don't want utopia, but... almost word for word, man, I agree with you. it's the same I've been saying. my mom is a liberal democrat. so is my sister, and her boyfriend. my brother is so cynical he refuses to even think about politics. most of the folks I know are either democrats, republicans, socialists, or complete cynics. but the ones who vote not along party lines tend to be the one's with the most Vision and Hope.

in the immoral words of John Lennon, "you may say I'm a Dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I've got my plans. I'm gonna live in a Hippie-styled Anarcho-Commune with a Resource-Based Economy. I'm still working out exactly how I feel about how to run it... am I Democratic? Socialist? Fascist? completely Anarchist? I dunno yet, but I know that when push comes to shove I'll do whatever comes naturally, and if anything starts to disfunction I'll adjust whatever I have to to make it work. I'm pragmatic enough to do whatever it takes.
PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:51 am


Quote:
Am I wrong to think people should be allowed to think whatever they want, whether it's morally wrong or not? Am I wrong to believe that strict religious individuals CAN coexist with atheists in harmony?

no

Quote:
Is it wrong to take such libertarian principles to such an extreme, if that's even possible????


philosophically any practice taken to an extreme inevitably creates more problems than solutions. Thousands of years of thinkers from around the world all came to the uniform conclusion that balance is best.

Quote:
I'm an 18 year old and I know little of politics, compared to the majority of educated society. And the fact that this is like, SUPER unorganized probably doesn't help haha. But if I am flawed, how am I flawed? How can I imagine a society that IS the Utopia that we strive for?? Help me out here...


Sadly, the majority of educated society is in the minority in all of society. Even still, educated people make mistakes. I think the search for a Utopian society is fruitless and quite frankly I wouldn't want one on earth. So many dystopian novels (1984, Brave New World, A clockwork Orange) show that in order to manufacture utopia we must forfeit our free will, which is a huge part of our humanity. That's an exchange I'm not willing to make. I'm flawed too, but my flaws are the other half of my redeeming attributes that makes me a unique individual and an individual who is forced to recognize that I need everyone around me in some way to be a whole person because I'm not prefect. To me, imagining a utopia is pointless because it's my utopia, which is probably different from everyone else's and would always strip someone of their freedom even if it's the freedom of disagreement.


I say forgo the rhetorical thinking on politics as many before you have gone down this road and none yet have created a sufficient answer and in all honesty there is no resolute answer because like you said part of freedom is having various opinions.

I say just be the change you want to see in the world. After all, we're human beings not human doings (or thinkings).


p.s. cool moustache!!!

Gjornia X

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