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II Palmtop Tiger II Vice Captain
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 Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:10 pm
As you well know, we will soon be incorporating the ability to exceed 10/10 in any given field. Naturally there are limitations to this "exceed system," as Dante calls it, meaning that only certain areas can be exceeded by each captain.
However, for the time a vizard is using his/her mask, I propose that each limit is remove for each captain, allowing them to add points where they see fit, to augment their specialized abilities. I also propose an addition of 4 points, putting them just below Zenos and Sakuya.
So, for instance, if I were to apply the normal Exceed System to Hei (currently it's Reiatsu at 12 and Physical Strength at 11), then it might look something like this; Before ExceedQuote: Zanjutsu - 10/10
Kidō - 1/10
Agility - 10/10
Hakuda - 7/10 [10/4]
Reiatsu - 10/10
Physical Strength - 10/10 Total - 48 Quote: Zanjutsu - 10/10
Kidō - 0/10
Agility - 10/10
Hakuda - 6/10 [10/2]
Reiatsu - 12/10
Physical Strength - 11/10 Total - 48 Quote: Zanjutsu - 10/10
Kidō - 0/10
Agility - 12/10
Hakuda - 6/10 [10/2]
Reiatsu - 12/10
Physical Strength - 12/10 Total - 52 As you can see, he is now at 12/10 for Physical Strength, Speed, and Reiatsu, which is more or less how I've been RPing him this entire time, or how I have been trying to do so. A minor thing to add is that I suggest that a mandatory one (1) point be added the RPC's base Reiatsu, at the very least. Obviously this is because there isn't a Vizard alive/dead that doesn't have this increase.
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Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:34 pm
I don't see a problem except for the point I stated before.
If you don't remember it was just the major power shift between RPC Captains.
Other than that, go nuts. 3nodding
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II Palmtop Tiger II Vice Captain
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Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:36 pm
Well, there's no avoiding the fact that Captains with a mask will get stronger than those without one. ><
It's only four points, so it's not that much, really.
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Posted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:40 pm
Mhmh.
It comes down to Roleplaying skill in the end anyways, so I'm not really too concerned with power boosts. Just wanted to post that so we can keep track of how much power we dish out. sweatdrop
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:55 am
Uh... actually, I kinda have something else in mind. And seeing as how things are picking up I guess I should get off my a** and post it. sweatdrop
Exceed System
Simply put, it is the possibility of a RPC’s stats to go past the maximum number for an area, for a price of course.
2:1 Ratio
To gain 1 Exceed point, which is 1 point above the maximum of 10, one must trade in 2 points, an example is provided below.
Standard System
Zanjutsu - 10/10
Kido - 4/10
Exceed System
Zanjutsu - 11/10
Kido - 2/10
Vizard System
The System is divided into two aspects, duration and power, and points are distributed to these two from a total of six Vizard points. The minimum, of course, is 1 point allocation. Duration dictates how long it will remain, and power dictates the total number of boost points increased in specified areas.
Once more, an example is provided below.
Standard System
Zanjutsu - 10/10
Kido - 4/10
Vizard System
Duration - 3
Power - 3
Zanjutsu - 13/10
Kido - 4/10
As you can see, the entirety of the power boost points was allocated to Zanjutsu, allowing it to go into the Exceed area, without sacrificing points. Of course, this is only temporary, lasting for only 3 posts or so, as opposed to the Exceed System which is more or less permanent for the RPC.
[Placeholder post will edit]
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:56 am
Taigaa-tono After Exceed Zanjutsu - 10/10
Kidō - 0/10
Agility - 10/10
Hakuda - 6/10 [10/2]
Reiatsu - 12/10
Physical Strength - 11/10 Total - 49 10+10+6+12+11= 49......................
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II Palmtop Tiger II Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:02 am
Ichimura Kenshin Taigaa-tono After Exceed Zanjutsu - 10/10
Kidō - 0/10
Agility - 10/10
Hakuda - 6/10 [10/2]
Reiatsu - 12/10
Physical Strength - 11/10 Total - 49 10+10+6+12+11= 49...................... Irrelevant by all accounts, but thanks for pointing it out?
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:32 am
Dante_Shadowolf Uh... actually, I kinda have something else in mind. And seeing as how things are picking up I guess I should get off my a** and post it. sweatdrop Exceed System
Simply put, it is the possibility of a RPC’s stats to go past the maximum number for an area, for a price of course.
2:1 Ratio
To gain 1 Exceed point, which is 1 point above the maximum of 10, one must trade in 2 points, an example is provided below.
Standard System
Zanjutsu - 10/10
Kido - 4/10
Exceed System
Zanjutsu - 11/10
Kido - 2/10
Vizard System
The System is divided into two aspects, duration and power, and points are distributed to these two from a total of six Vizard points. The minimum, of course, is 1 point allocation. Duration dictates how long it will remain, and power dictates the total number of boost points increased in specified areas.
Once more, an example is provided below.
Standard System
Zanjutsu - 10/10
Kido - 4/10
Vizard System
Duration - 3
Power - 3
Zanjutsu - 13/10
Kido - 4/10
As you can see, the entirety of the power boost points was allocated to Zanjutsu, allowing it to go into the Exceed area, without sacrificing points. Of course, this is only temporary, lasting for only 3 posts or so, as opposed to the Exceed System which is more or less permanent for the RPC.[Placeholder post will edit] Already told you how I feel about the exceed system, but for those who can't spy on our awesome conversations, here's what, exactly;
Being overly proficient in a certain area because you are a Captain is not a powerup or some special ability that involves doping or something, therefore there shouldn't be a "rebound" for excelling in certain areas. Take for example, real life; my sister is an incredibly brilliant girl, but at the same time she kicks a**, and I mean that literally. Her having brains does not hinder her physical progress by any means. A RPC shouldn't be "punished" for being better at something than others because that's his/her main profession, so to speak.
Edit: To be more precise, I know that they already get "punished" for being great at speed, by being bad at something else. Like Hei has little Kidou experience (will be none when this exceed system is implemented). What I'm saying is that 2 for 1 seems excessive, sorry if my example wasn't exactly right, but I believe the principle is still there.
===============================================
Moving on to Vizard. I disagree with the duration being directly taken from the points, I do, however, agree with duration being proportional to point increase.
Duration should be a reflection of how long the RPC has trained with the mask. Hei has had it for many arcs, and is thus able to use it for a total of 6 posts now. I believe that duration should coincide with Vizard rank (B, A, S, etc) and that that rank be determined by discretion of most of the crew, or perhaps Dante and myself. Duration increases with training; it's like that with any power in any anime/manga, with the exception of special powers that are E.O.W-like and thus cannot be changed. Along with this, something I had not taken into consideration before, is that points should reflect the rank and duration.
1 post - 1 point
2 post - 2 points
Etc
Obviously there should be a cap at S-Rank with 6 post Duration and 6 points. or maybe even S-Rank with 8 posts at 8 points. It is not strange to think the most powerful of vizard could go toe to toe with the CC, you know? Try to keep in mind that I am NOT doing this to get Hei to CC level. Admit to yourself the only person he can't beat is Yuki, and that he doesn't care (nor do I) to try to beat her.
So yeah...
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II Palmtop Tiger II Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:55 am
*shrugs*
Just thought I'd make it so that the Exceed System doesn't just feel like an extension of the normal system. In my opinion it's just right, I mean, a 10/10 in Agility lets you nearly as fast as the reaction time of a human. Going past that means more training and specializing in that area, which would entail sacrificing some combat abilities. It's like getting a perfect score in an exam, then getting additional points caused you answered the bonus question.
Take for example Kenpachi, who sacrificed learning Kido and his entire zanpakuto to gain massive amounts of raw physical power.
================================================
Hmm... I was kinda hoping for the ranking thing to be based on the Shinigami's level before hollowfication. Captain rank would garner a higher rank than Lieutenant, etc.
I disagree with the duration part though, prime example, Mashiro Kuna, who was stated to have the longest mask duration out of all the vizards as well as having the least amount of training. I'd use Ichigo as an explanation too, but he's beyond godh4x so it would really be valid. The duration depends on the control of the Shinigami with their inner hollow, me thinks, Mashiro Kuna has been a vizard for as long as Shinji and the others, but her mask duration still differs to them.
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:10 am
Not really; it all depends on how you train. For example, Yamamoto; he has a 100 in all fields except PS, which is a damn lie because he blew Wonderweiss apart with a punch. It's just like I said; Anna's brains have no effect on her physical prowess, nor does the reverse apply. Also, Kenpachi did not sacrifice those things, he was unable to learn his Shikai powers because he cannot speak to his Zanpakuto, and he prefers CQC to long range, so he abandoned Kido. He's already stated that he wishes he could learn his Zanpakuto's name, and then use its powers, so it's a fact that he's unable to do so. Don't misunderstand me, I think it should still be just like the point system we have now, just not 2 for 1. ><
================================================
I was hoping you would bring her up. blaugh You can't rely on degree of control in a RP, we don't do that with Shikai or Bankai, so it shouldn't be done with Masks. Simply put, I could easily say that Hei, because he has sealing powers (to fully subdue his inner hollow) and a god-like refined control of his Reiryoku (to keep the mask together), could hold his mask for eleven years or some other ridiculous number like that. Any member could do that, so we must rely on something "tangible," not the word of the member, who is obviously going to try and push the envelope with powers as much as possible. Legitimately, if you decide that duration should be based on control, then I WILL add that Hei can hold his mask for a long-a** time, because it would be the truth.
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II Palmtop Tiger II Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:14 am
Hmm... point taken. I'm still not that comfortable with it though, so I'll wait for the other to give their input.
==================================================
Yeah, eleven years would be ridiculous. rofl
Anyway, I'd still go for my system though, out of a personal bias of course. With that said, I is now wait for others to give their input.
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:23 am
Well, I can see your system having merits, I just think it makes more sense that points go by duration, which is decided by training time. I wish I could explain this better, but it seems like it would be fair to everyone. It'd be a giant slap in the face to me if I could only add 3 points to PS and then only have it last for 3 posts, when I've been working on Hei's Vizard power level for a while now...
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II Palmtop Tiger II Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:01 am
Maybe Yamamoto wasn't using his Physical Strength but his Reiatsu/Reiryoku to make strong blows. . . <_< And muscles... sorta like Master Roshi does when he goes into the Tenka'ichi Budōkai as Jackie Chun.
I get the 2 point "sacrifice" thing so that you can have 1 point in something else... like with Tetsunosuke, how he's supposed to be the superior Swordsmen in the Gotei 13 (other than Yuki I guess >_> ), he would spend more time training with his sword then anything else, which would probably boost his Reiatsu, Physical Strength as well. . . I only have a 10 in Kido right now because Virgil wanted me to fix my stats when he was fighting as Sakuya... But yeah, I get Dante's reasoning why the point should be "sacrificed"... even though I don't really want to do that. xd But at the same time, I see Taigaa's reasoning... you're going to sacrifice one point in order to make your RPC have an exceeded power in something else... so... it's basically like, just neglecting that one field in not putting anything in it. Video Games, when you level up like in a game like Mass Effect, you get so many points for your level up, and you can put one into whatever field you want, and you're not punished for putting it into one field more then the other. Like saying you put all of your points into Rifle skills, you aren't punished for NOT putting them into First Aid or Specter... I think Taigaa's reasoning is more seasonable in a way, while Dante's version is more "evening it out" Maybe, I suppose. . . ? O_o; Idk. . . stare
And the Vizard power boost thing should really be thought through thoroughly. I sorta see why the number of post should determine the number of boost points you get, it does make since. Ichigo got Speed, strength, and Reiryoku/Reiatsu boost when he Vizard... and I'm sure the other Vizards did too. I see Taigaa's point in the gain to 52.. while I don't think it's totally fair, it does make sense, I suppose... Well... idk, I mean... After Tousen gained his mask, it only took a Lt and Cap to take him down; plus he was Res... so it's sort of hard to say how strong they really are or should be. I don't really want the Caps to gain a super power boost and be strong enough to kill Zenos/Ori in a few hits. It's no fun that way, and it's too DBZ or Bleach-y if we do that... IMO, it'd be lame. I think this should be a long drawn out fight where possibly a Captain or two SHOULD die... I don't see why all of the Arrancar have to die, while Soul Society only looses Kyoshiro... even though Kyo's doing this as a means to an end. We should all draw lots, and whoever draws that number, their RPC has to die... :ROFL: just kidding... >_< But, I really think this needs to be discussed.
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:26 am
My whole point in regards to two for one is, where does it come from? I use a Rare Candy on my Charizard, but I don't have to choose a Pokemon, say Mewtwo, and make his level drop by two. It just doesn't make any sense because its like, all of a sudden these exceed points are extra special good... They aren't different, they're just there to show that Tetsu is a better swordsman than Hei is because that's his primary area of focus. I'm already sacrificing a point in other areas so he can be better in at least one of them, so why does it have to be two? It's like Ichi said, when you get points in video games, you can dish them out wherever, and you don't have to sacrifice two for one...
=================================================
Actually, with my second post in here I decided that, if duration matched point increase, that Hei would probably be at the 8 pt/8 post mark, since he's had his the longest, whereas the rest of them would probably only get, maybe 4 pt/4 posts since it's a year of training. That would put them just under Zenos and Sakuya, so they would still be putting forth effort and not wtfpwning people left and right.
As for deaths, so far Kyo, Ciel, and Nanashi are to die. Well, Nana's not technically dead, but instead gone home. But the rest of them don't know that. But really, it's all a matter of how the fight plays out. If your RPC doesn't sustain the appropriate damage to die, then he/she won't. Frankly I never said the Sephira had to die at all. Zenos lost and he's still alive, albeit unconscious...
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II Palmtop Tiger II Vice Captain
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Posted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 11:29 am
Also, we shouldn't desire to have RPC's die just for the sake of dying. RPCs shouldn't be offed simply because one side is faring better than the other, but instead should have a death that makes sense. It's like if the Shinigami are winning and Yuki is destroying Ori, but then out of nowhere, all because the Shinigami are doing so good, Yuki just up and dies because she magically couldn't get out of the way of a good attack from Ori.
-shrug-
Color me confused though, Ichimura. How is it that you have a problem with power ups for characters that have nothing to do with Sarah and I, but before you were upset that only we got powerful characters? She's giving you that chance, but for some reason you're fighting it...
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