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RurouniZakku

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 5:37 pm


I wanted to post about this when I first joined, but since I was going to one, it probably would have led to my current situation before the school year was finished. My question about these schools is, Why do they have the right to decide what the students at their school can post on the internet when it comes to Evolution and religion? Me and my step brother were kicked out because he was an atheist and I was an agnostic. That, and we both had comments and posts in support of Evolution.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:32 pm


Wow! That sucks...

I went to a Christian School growing up, and they were more strict about instilling certain disciplines in the students that went, but I was one of the blessed few that went to a place that didn't feel they held sway over the very thoughts of the students. They did try to teach us to control our mischievous ideas, but they encouraged us to ask hard questions about God and try to see that God and Science have their places. I didn't agree with everything that the curriculum taught, but I was required to pass the tests...

It depends on the place though. Some institutions feel it is their god-given duty to shape the very thoughts of the students. They fail to realize that it just weakens their influence, and causes conflict within those who can see common sense and the contradiction that many religious stances hold with said common sense.

Each school is responsible for the subject matter and curriculum they teach, and if they feel that actions are a part of the curriculum, then when students act contradictory to the rules, then they are rebelling. If the school has expelled you and your brother for the way you think, then it leads me to believe that you have made some good points that they don't know how to refute, and they don't want you "contaminating" their other students. I feel the school has failed you because they didn't take time to understand where you are coming from, but that is just my opinion.

I do hope I am not out of line here though....

So, what does your parents think about the whole mess?

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Lumanny the Space Jew

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:59 pm


I've been going to religious Private schools all my life, pretty mcuh, exept Kindergarten at Public School. Let me tell you, Public School is INFINITELY better than Public Schools. The work is so much more challenging and you can actually talk about religion without getting buried in red tape.

And plenty of kids over the years have been atheist or agnostic (especially back in high school) and have gotten by just fine. Actually, eighth grade year I was best friends with a boy who was an agnostic studying under Satanism. Sure, he got in trouble when they caught him reading the Satanic Bible in the Bathroom during a Torah service, but he actually aced Judaics Class because even though he didn't believe in any of it, he was amazing when it came to analyzing texts.

My current school is this huge Jewish microcosm of Atheist Jews, Reform Jews, Conservative Jews, and Orthodox Jews. Kosher Kitchen and vending machine to satisfy all. It is amazing. And despite splitting up into our separate prayer groups, we all get along just great. I'm best friends with this really cool Modern Orthodox guy and a few conservatives. And one other reform and one atheist.
A lot of people expect that one set of ideas is being forced upon us, but that could not be further from the truth. We are constantly engaged in this dialogue and debate about the way things are, especially when it comes to Talmud study, which is just that. And the atheists do just fine at my school as long as they keep their grades up, which requires attention but no belief.
PostPosted: Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:38 pm


I would agree with Lumany on the more challenging curriculum. My scores were in the top 10% of the state when testing time came, and I was doing college courses in my junior year, and all my senior year stuff (other than English, go figure) were advanced courses that could be accepted for college credit. Anymore, public schools hold students back and dumb down their courses to make their end-year reviews better (in the States anyway). I am glad for the opportunity. I think it would be great if you can get into a private school that encourages your free thought yet stimulates and challenges your intellect.

Lumany, your school sounds awesome! My Christian school was small, I was the only person in my grade. LOL We all got along great, the older students looking out for the younger like a huge family. But if Zakku's private school was Christian, I could see how things went down. Our school had people coming in who had been expelled from other Christian private schools BECAUSE they thought freely, or didn't agree with the pastor/principal/supervisor of their previous school. Just one of the bad consequences of having people more devoted to religious indoctrination than real education trying to run schools.

Eltanin Sadachbia

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RurouniZakku

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:33 pm


My parents freaked, and even now that we go to a school that encourages free thought, still in a private school, they won't let post on public chat websites like Facebook, or twitter. Which is kind of annoying, but it's better than not having my internet which they took when it happened. It depends on the public school you go to, I was in a pretty good one, by my senior year I was going to be taking Calculus, psychology, and AP physics. I was also studying Russian, and Japanese, and I was going to start taking Spanish this year if I was still there. It was better than here, but my new school has some of the same options for seniors, so it'll all be better now. Though it wasn't the teachers that wanted us out, it was the acting principal, and the board. They didn't approve of us or are opinions. The teachers actually liked us a lot, especially my brother, and the owner of the school said that he would have answered any questions that we had. Now I've heard that half the curriculum for the school is anti-evolution.
PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:17 pm


I love when parents try to force a religion on their children...

But I would imagine they can because it is a Christian/Catholic school after all. They do not want Atheist and Agnostic, even Pagans, in their schools. It would be contradicting to their beliefs. And if the child will not change their belief than the easiest solution would be to kick them out. You would not want a Catholic going to a Jewish school, now would you? That could spell disaster. But the weird thing, and I just remembered this, my mom was raised Christian {I think Lutheran, but I'm not sure. And that would be Catholic, right?} and went to Jewish high school. I do not believe it was private though, just the area she grew up in was mostly Jewish.

Aakosir

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:22 pm


Lumanny the Space Jew
I've been going to religious Private schools all my life, pretty mcuh, exept Kindergarten at Public School. Let me tell you, Public School is INFINITELY better than Public Schools. The work is so much more challenging and you can actually talk about religion without getting buried in red tape.

And plenty of kids over the years have been atheist or agnostic (especially back in high school) and have gotten by just fine. Actually, eighth grade year I was best friends with a boy who was an agnostic studying under Satanism. Sure, he got in trouble when they caught him reading the Satanic Bible in the Bathroom during a Torah service, but he actually aced Judaics Class because even though he didn't believe in any of it, he was amazing when it came to analyzing texts.

My current school is this huge Jewish microcosm of Atheist Jews, Reform Jews, Conservative Jews, and Orthodox Jews. Kosher Kitchen and vending machine to satisfy all. It is amazing. And despite splitting up into our separate prayer groups, we all get along just great. I'm best friends with this really cool Modern Orthodox guy and a few conservatives. And one other reform and one atheist.
A lot of people expect that one set of ideas is being forced upon us, but that could not be further from the truth. We are constantly engaged in this dialogue and debate about the way things are, especially when it comes to Talmud study, which is just that. And the atheists do just fine at my school as long as they keep their grades up, which requires attention but no belief.


Public schools are better than public schools? XD And if you were going to say private is better than public than I will have to disagree. My high school offered some pretty tough classes. You just had to be a good student to get in to the AP and Honors classes.

I chuckled at the Kosher vending machine =^_^=

But my main question is; What is an Atheist Jew??? I can't figure out how that would work.
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:45 pm


Aakosir
Lumanny the Space Jew
I've been going to religious Private schools all my life, pretty mcuh, exept Kindergarten at Public School. Let me tell you, Public School is INFINITELY better than Public Schools. The work is so much more challenging and you can actually talk about religion without getting buried in red tape.

And plenty of kids over the years have been atheist or agnostic (especially back in high school) and have gotten by just fine. Actually, eighth grade year I was best friends with a boy who was an agnostic studying under Satanism. Sure, he got in trouble when they caught him reading the Satanic Bible in the Bathroom during a Torah service, but he actually aced Judaics Class because even though he didn't believe in any of it, he was amazing when it came to analyzing texts.

My current school is this huge Jewish microcosm of Atheist Jews, Reform Jews, Conservative Jews, and Orthodox Jews. Kosher Kitchen and vending machine to satisfy all. It is amazing. And despite splitting up into our separate prayer groups, we all get along just great. I'm best friends with this really cool Modern Orthodox guy and a few conservatives. And one other reform and one atheist.
A lot of people expect that one set of ideas is being forced upon us, but that could not be further from the truth. We are constantly engaged in this dialogue and debate about the way things are, especially when it comes to Talmud study, which is just that. And the atheists do just fine at my school as long as they keep their grades up, which requires attention but no belief.


Public schools are better than public schools? XD And if you were going to say private is better than public than I will have to disagree. My high school offered some pretty tough classes. You just had to be a good student to get in to the AP and Honors classes.

I chuckled at the Kosher vending machine =^_^=

But my main question is; What is an Atheist Jew??? I can't figure out how that would work.

If you haven't been to both Private and Public you can't have an educated opinion. When I went to Public school I was bored literally to tears. Mental Health Proffessionals told me to seek private school. Private school has been so much better.

And did you forget that Judaism is a religion AND an ethnicity? So you can be Jewish ethnically but not even believe in G-d. We have quite a bit of that at my school. Minyans and minyans of them. All Jews at my school but some more religious than others in both extremes. They practice Judaism more as a culture.

By the way, in case I forgot to mention, my school does actually teach evolution. I mean, they touch on 7 days' Creation in Bible Study but in Science class and History class it is all Evolution. Homo Habilis to Homo Erectus to Neanderthals and Cro Magnons to us now in the Cenozoic Era. Fascinating stuff, really. Amazing.
But, LOL, my Orthodox friend doesn't believe in it. Neither does this one Orthodox Rabbi at school... but he's quite the character, actually. Notorious for his 'Zhe voman, she belongs in zhe kitchen' old country attitude. Very Orthodox. But he chants torah really well at the gender-separated minyan. And like I said, we just have all kinds of Jews at my school.

Lumanny the Space Jew

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:10 pm


Well, compared to your situation, Zakku, we've got it pretty good up here.
I'm not in the Bible Belt, happily, which generally means that the Christians aren't pushy, but they will push back.
I go to private Catholic school--I have for all my life--and I have heard from friends who went to public school how much of a joke it was. Yeah, they really don't care if children are learning as long as their grades look high. The teachers don't put in any effort, etc. etc., and most public-schooled kids I've talked to mentioned how unprepared they were for high school. I had a pretty smooth transition, though.
About the religion--we had classes and they taught us Catholic-biased sex ed. (which is funny, because contrary to what they're teaching, abstinence isn't 100% safe--look at Mary!), but they didn't monitor what we posted on the web or anything. Even in high school, I get the feeling they wouldn't be happy if the Administration knew I was an atheist, as "A personal and active faith in God" is one of their goals. rolleyes
PostPosted: Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:20 pm


^ That's the reason the main reason they kicked me and my step bro out, "A personal and active faith in God" is their most important goal, they want their graduates to go off to Bible colleges and become missionaries. I heard at one point they hacked into half the high schools face book accounts and kicked out most of them until people found out about it.

RurouniZakku

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Haha Coffee

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:11 am


They have the right, because they are a private insitution with there own criteria for admission and continued attendance.

This should be fairly obvious.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:40 pm


Dharma Sila
They have the right, because they are a private insitution with there own criteria for admission and continued attendance.

This should be fairly obvious.

I disagree. Free thought is more important than adherence to dogma.

My school doesn't require me to believe in God, they merely hope to instill long-lasting faith in their students. I know plenty of atheists at my Catholic school.

Anyway, it's not even in the rulebook that "If you call yourself an atheist, you will be expelled." Nothing like that. Sure, they want me to be Catholic or theist at the least, but they can't expel me.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:09 pm


Eccentric Detective

I disagree. Free thought is more important than adherence to dogma.

My school doesn't require me to believe in God, they merely hope to instill long-lasting faith in their students. I know plenty of atheists at my Catholic school.

Anyway, it's not even in the rulebook that "If you call yourself an atheist, you will be expelled." Nothing like that. Sure, they want me to be Catholic or theist at the least, but they can't expel me.


Depends on his county's local laws concerning what private schools can and can't do if the private school can get away with it. Required theism might be required by this particular private school, not all private schools are like Catholic schools.

Regardless, getting kicked out seems like it was a good thing considering the that the school requires their students to take a pro-Creationist stance. If he really wants to stay at that school, they might have a legal case since what the school did is discrimination. Fighting this depends on if his parents and him want to fight the school's decision to expel him or just drop it or find a private school more accommodating and less dogmatic.
PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:33 pm


We almost sued them for it, but we were actually happy that we were taken out of it, it had a horrible education system, they just kicked out two students a week ago because their parents were talking bad about the school.

RurouniZakku

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 06, 2010 4:42 pm


RurouniZakku
We almost sued them for it, but we were actually happy that we were taken out of it, it had a horrible education system, they just kicked out two students a week ago because their parents were talking bad about the school.
If stuff like that keeps happening, sounds like the school will shut itself down rofl
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