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WHY do we have these things?!

Even though some might think they taste good or something, it's bad for you and the cigarettes add much pollution to the air.

Discuss??

Yep, it's better to have the option to have things than to try to deal with the laws against them. If alcohol and tobacco were suddenly outlawed people would just make/grow their own and then get into trouble, causing higher jail populations and other bad repercussions. As responsible humans we just have to try to make the best choices for ourselves.

Wine isn't that bad. Alcohol atleast has some good applications, like in cooking, and in moderation red wine is actually good for you.

my other half likes beer, like, gourmet beers, not miller or whatever that pisswater is alot of americans drink. *shrugs* i have no problem with responsibly used recreational drugs. to start banning things like that leads to a dangerous slippery slope. as an herbalist, i see the medicinal purpose in all of those things. tobacco can reduce blood pressure and stress(but i'd prefer is people used pipes again for that, as it will cause one to smoke less and cause less waste and not put all those nasty chemicals that are in cigarettes but not pipe tobacco in the air) alcohol can have beneficial effects for the heart, cannibus is a pain killer and an appetite stimulator and has been very useful in the field of medicine

you do realize that both alcohol and smokable herbs occur in nature, right? anytime a fruit ferments on the vine, it's insides turn to alcohol. it was more discovered than made in the first place.

I drink, I smoke, and I brew my own wine. I don't see what demonizes these substances. It isn't the substance that makes bed decisions, it's the person.

Tobacco has been smoked for centuries. I smoke rolled cigarettes because I enjoy smoking. I don't smoke around non-smokers, I'm pretty respectful about keeping the habit to myself.

Is this a guild for discussing sustainability or morals?

i love you. i really do. seriously. you practice your right to do something and don't push it on others, i wish more people were like you. i can't wait for the bus without someone lighting up right next to me, never mind that i'm allergic to whatever preservative is in mas-made cigarettes, they dont stop to think on that, or that the people around them might have asthma, or that perhaps i dont want my toddlers breathing those chemicals in. it upsets me so much, but at the same time i dont want their right to tobacco taken away, because that would make me a hypocrite. so thus i love you heart

people on this board really shouldnt be trying to judge others. we have no right to judge ANYONE on their decisions. PERIOD. this sort of s**t is going to bring down the productivity of the guild, if we start dividing ourselves by morals. next you know, i'll be getting attacked cause i have 2 kids (twins) and want a big family. just take a moment to reflect on history - prohibition only caused people to want alcohol more, and it caused people to seek out dangerous sources of it. this is what will recur if you start banning s**t. i'm already fighting an uphill battle for cannibus legalization, and for the re-legalization of salvia (at least here in florida where it's become a felony to even have it on your person. which is bullshit, it's a simple meditative herb and puritans like [generic] you got it demonized and charlie crist believing the lies about it ilegalized it)

i think atleast in crowded public places it should be
or start more buisnesses that are smoke free