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 Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:41 am
This trial will be known as The People of the Mercenary League vs. Typo_Negativ. The Honorable Judge Nxegex will be presiding. The prosecution will be led by CSM Gear-Richie. The defendant is o-KARMA-o, alias Typo_Negativ. o-KARMA-o is being charged with conspiracy against the Mercenary League, abuse of rank and position, and the 2009 attack on the Mercenary League. o-KARMA-o will be represented by Commander The_Master_Wielder.
Rules for the courtroom and guidelines to procedure can be found in the Department of Criminal Justice in the Departments Subforum. These rules must be followed at all times, or the judge may declare the offender in Contempt of Court. This thread may ONLY be posted in by Nxegex, o-KARMA-o, The_Master_Wielder, and Gear-Richie.
The defendant will now be asked to put in her plea of Guilty, Not Guilty, or No Contest.
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:03 am
I plead guilty to abuse of rank and position, and the 2009 attacks. I plead not guilty to conspiracy against the Mercenary League.
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Posted: Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:48 am
Your honor, Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, the prosecution hereby declares its two intentions. First, I intend to prove that the Defendant, o-KARMA-o, henceforth referred to as Typo_Negativ, acted in bad faith in conspiring against the well-being and security of The Gaian Mercenary League by initiating the aforementioned attacks in 2009, to which she has already pled guilty. My secondary intention is to prove that the actions she took merit full punishment to the extent of the League's law, to include permanently banning her from the Mercenary League, stopping her from openly being a member, and placing restrictions further requiring that any mule account determined to be hers be banned immediately.
The prosecution recognizes that this trial will have two parts. First, I will work to prove Typo_Negativ's guilt in the charge of conspiracy against the Mercenary League. I will then work to prosecute her to the fullest extent of the law. The Prosecution is ready to present evidence.
And now I turn the floor to the defense's council, The_Master_Wielder, for his opening statement.
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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 2:03 pm
Apologies for the Delay.
I'm not as skilled in Legal Terminology or Phrasing as my respectable opponent, so I will say this plainly. The Objectives of the Defense are to prove that Typo_Negativ was not involved in any conspiracy to harm the league (To clarify: she was the only person involved.), and that her actions were for a good cause, and therefore should be, to a reasonable degree, excused. The cause I refer to, for the record, is the well-being of the league.
As well, I would like it to be noted, that any records of prior conversations should be presented in the form of Screenshots, possibly in addition to copy/pastes of them, so as to secure their credibility.
Now, if I'm not mistaken, my opponent Gear will be presenting his opening arguments.
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The_Master_Wielder Captain
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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 9:28 pm
Ladies and Gentlemen of the Jury, Typo_Negativ is a criminal. In direct contrast to the rules of the Mercenary League, in 2009, she deleted nearly every thread and banned nearly every member in the guild while the rest of the crew were away. Typo_Negativ's prior actions and activity had led the crew to nominate her for crew status at the time, though all pretense of desire to work towards the good of the League was quickly washed away when she wrecked the guild.
This claim she does not deny. However, she does deny the fact that it was part of a greater conspiracy to ruin the Mercenary League as a whole. She also claims that the actions she took were selfless and intended to be beneficial to the League, despite the fact that she was too scared to admit her intentions to the rest of the League's crew.
Ladies and Gentlemen, let me take you back somewhat to prior days of the Mercenary League. There was a user by the name of Suicidesoldier#1, a user whose name lives in some level of infamy with this guild. When MerDefsGirl, founder and first commander of the League went inactive, I took over the task of rebuilding the League. SuicideSoldier#1 was given temporary crew status for the intent of giving him a chance to recruit members. He did so very well, albiet a bit randomly, and after some deliberation, his crew status was granted indefinitely.
Things changed, however, as SuicideSoldier#1, one night, attempted to delete threads and ban multiple people from the guild. His justification was that the League needed his kind of "help."
Does this sound familiar? Typo_Negativ's actions directly echo SuicideSoldier's intents. The only difference is that crew member Super_Chihuahua caught Suicide in the act and stopped him before he was able to do too much damage. Typo_Negativ, however, managed to perform her task without being caught.
I would ask the defense to address this question: if Suicidesoldier#1 and Typo_Negativ were not affiliated, why did they both feel the need to perform the same actions and claim the same reasons for them?
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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:02 pm
By her request, Typo_Negativ, under the Account of o-Karma-o, will be representing herself. I hereby relinquish any claim or title as her defense, but reserve the option to return to this position, should it be requested or required by the accused.
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The_Master_Wielder Captain
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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:24 pm
I object. You have no evidence linking my so-called "destruction" of the guild to SuicideSoldier, and as such your statement is moot. Circumstantial evidence serves only as a pattern, and is grounds for profiling, which I'm pretty sure is against the code of the Mercenary League. I request that the prosecution present a form of evidence to prove a relevant conspiracy between Typo Negativ and SuicideSoldier#1, and if not the prosecution resubmit their opening statement. If you can prove I'm the same person as him or had the same intentions as him, with undeniable evidence, then the defense can rest.
As well, I object to your statement, "In direct contrast to the rules of the Mercenary League, in 2009, she deleted nearly every thread and banned nearly every member in the guild while the rest of the crew were away." I see nowhere in the Mercenary code, as of 08/22/ 11:55PM CST, that directly objects to my deletion of every thread and banning of every member. I can provide screenshots for this, if necessary, as evidence.
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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 10:53 pm
The court will allow the defendant the right to defend her own case in lieu of using the appointed lawyer. In addition, a screenshot of the rules at said time will be permitted as evidence for the Defendant's use.
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Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2010 11:09 pm
The defense brings to the stand the following textual evidence, as well as screenshot images of the mentioned locations. Clicking the images will take you to the location where the evidence was found. []EDIT: For the purposes of not stretching the page with large images, I've provided links instead. Please click the "Mercenary League Terms of Service" title, and "Mercenary League Code of Conduct" title to be brought to the images, and "source" to be brought to the original page. Exhibit A Mercenary League Terms of ServiceSource1. The Mercenary League will maintain a Mercenary Armeekorps, the group which represents the force of the League. Leadership Positions are likely to be given to members of high rank, who have shown loyalty and dependability through their career in the League. 2. Mercenary Armeekorps leaders in this league will be expected to participate, and will be on called on to lend their support to any they are required to. 3. There will be no spamming in the Forum, and ToC rules will be ruthlessly enforced. Your posts could be locked, deleted, and you may even be banned (Le gasp!). 4. Mercenaries in the Armeekorps are not to express support for actions or propaganda contrary to the Mercenary League's position once a course of action has been decided upon by Tactical Operations Command (Crew). 5. Rank will be respected. A direct lawful order from a superior officer or NCO must be followed by any member of the Armeekorps. 6. A mercenary will not attempt to represent the entirety of the League without the permission and support of the leadership council. All projects relating to the league that take place outside of the guild must be brought to the Department of Foreign Relations, the Department of Advertising, or the Department of Research & Development before any action is taken. Otherwise, disciplinary action may be taken. 7. Any member of the Mercenary League who keeps his or her ID card or other Mercenary League indica in their signature are expected to behave in a manner that brings honor to the Mercenary League. No member should behave in such a way that it casts doubt upon the league's abilities, legitimacy, or professionalism. 8. This is a semi-literate guild; please keep it that way. Excessively bad grammar will be frowned upon, and in some cases can be cause for dismissal. 9. OUR INACTIVE MEMBER POLICY- Four times per year (every three months), we will do a sweep of the guild, sending messages to members who have not been recently active. Those who receive messages have two weeks to respond in order to remain a member of this guild. If no response is received, the member will be banned. Banned members may reapply to the Mercenary League at any time at the cost of rank. 10. The Mercenary League has a discipline system that is strictly followed. A warning is used when indicated. The next offense may cause a loss of rank. The number of ranks lost depends upon the nature of the offense. Serious offenses may cause a temporary suspension from the League, while the most serious or persistent offenses may be punished with a permanent banning. 11. No mercenary will be rejected based on their methodology. Mercenary swordsmen will be given the same respect as mercenaries that use sniper rifles. Mercenaries that use a bow and arrow will still be eligible for the same missions as those who use hypersonic cannons. Gaians of all types, thank you for considering The Mercenary League for your employment and mission fulfillment needs. Whether in roleplay or in zOMG, we hope to be your one-stop-shop for mission success. Exhibit B Mercenary League Code of ConductSource 1. The life blood of the Mercenary League is the contract, a mercenary must sacrifice everything possible to fulfill the terms of a contract. 2. A member mercenary is not expected to go beyond contractual obligations. 3. A member mercenary is ruthless in combat. No mercy is to be shown to the enemy. 4. A member mercenary will never take a contract that puts him against other mercenaries of the League. 5. The Mercenary League is not a bloodlust organization, nor a world domination guild, and its members should never consider it as such. 6. Members of the Mercenary League are not encouraged to freelance. Assignments will be listed in the future. 7. Members of the League who keep guild insignia, id cards, or other indica in their signature will conduct themselves at all times in a manner that does not cast doubt upon the League's professionalism, abilities, or trustworthiness. 8. The Mercenary League reserves the right to refuse any client for any reason. 9. Any assignment that involves hate or discrimination based on race, gender, sexuality, or religion will be refused and reported. Members are forbidden from this type of work. Any member that takes such an assignment on their own will be dismissed from the League. 10. Any posts or topics made in the Mercenary League forums must follow the Gaian TOS. We will not engage in hate speech, nor will we allow flaming, trolling, or any other actions with the intent of making Gaia and the Mercenary League a less enjoyable place for anyone. Spam is strictly prohibited outside of the Parlor. 11. No stalking or trolling, any assignment that involves internet stalking or trolling will be refused and reported, and any member who takes such an assignment on their own will be dismissed from the League. 12. No member of the League is permitted to represent the League as a whole without the prior consent and authorization of Tactical Operations Command. 13. No porn, anyone who posts such or a link to such will be dismissed from the guild immediately. 14. Do not PM the Captains/Crew of the League with spam messages. Contact them only with legitimate questions that you feel can not be answered in the main forum, or you feel uncomfortable asking in a public manner. 15. Do not PM the Captains/Crew of the league about rank promotion or becoming crew! Procedures for promotion have been determined, if you participate, follow rules, and complete missions you shouldn't find it too hard to be promoted. Promotions and demotions will be posted or edited with no obligation of prior notification. 16. We will fight our battles honorably.
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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:13 am
The prosecution submits the following evidence to offer proof of the link between Suicide and Typo: Gear-Richie suicidesoldier#1 Haha, so I see the guild has inevitably ate itself like I thought it would. No matter, I have a message from gear. "It isn't about being thick. I don't believe your lies. No matter what you say at this point, you have no more credibility with me. What makes you think I would believe anything you say? Anyway, I'm leaving Gaia. Any messages you send after today won't reach me for quite some time. This is your last chance to make your crazy justifications and attempt to tell me that blowing up a building is the best thing for it, and all the people inside. I just warn you: you're wasting your time." In this case, I am ecstatic becuase he is leaving. In that matter, I request, extraordinarily humbly, to join the guild to do what I can. I also warn you to escape from Gear; he is doing much worse harm to this guild than even I imagined. Those were messages I sent to Typo. I think it's clear now. I'm declining his request to join. I doubt I'll have any objections. This message and thread is currently in Tactical Operations Command. The quote inside the message was sent privately to Typo_Negativ, and showed up in a join request from SuicideSoldier, who believed that I had already left on my intended vacation from Gaia. The only way he could have known what was stated was either by Typo sharing the information with him, or if Typo herself was actually Suicide. Unless the defense intends to claim Suicide hacked her? I am not moving the thread because it is in the TOC. However, the judge can verify the validity of this evidence since he has access. On the defense that Typo_Negativ's actions were perfectly legal, I have two arguments to make: Typo_Negativ acted in bad faith. I ask the jury to make a common sense decision here. Does a guild promote people so they can attack the very guild they are asked to take care of? When promotions occur, the statement is that the League has placed "special faith and trust" in the "loyalty", "fidelty," and "honor" of the person being promoted, whether in rank or status. How much loyalty, fidelity and honor is there in a crew member who seeks to destroy the guild they've been entrusted with?
Gaian TOS: By using Gaia Online, you agree not to "intentionally interfere with the operation of Gaia Online or any Member's enjoyment of it." (TOS rule #11). The League upholds all the rules not only of itself, but of Gaia as well. However, guild moderators are expected to deal with guild issues, rather than getting global moderators involved. This rule was clearly violated. Am I correct in reading that the Defense is trying to state that arbitrarily deleting threads and banning members in a guild you have been trusted with is morally justified and should reasonably be excused in any guild if it's not specifically stated? Is the Defense saying that Typo's actions are perfectly legal, and that crew members should continue to sabotage the guild they are supposed to lead?
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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 10:19 am
Objection again. I fail to see the relevance in what you posted above. When the guild was rebuilt, my mule posted our conversation in the guild for public eyes to see. I had nothing to hide, and never have. However, you did, so you deleted it. If given permission, I will post the whole conversation as evidence if necessary. Suicide could have easily seen the conversation when it was posted before that mule account was banned, and gotten the text from there.
As I well, I object again on the grounds that there has been no proven link between myself and SuicideSoldier, and his case is completely irrelevant to mine. Unless irrefutable proof can be produced that he and I are actually connected, any words or actions on his part serve no purpose to prove my guilt. He has had his trial already, and I trust him even less than you do. So, perhaps you should focus on the person who is currently on trial, instead of someone who, quite frankly, had nothing to do with this.
As well, you had made it public information at that point in time that you were going to be taking a break from Gaia. You even made a thread about it, to which I have no link because yes, I did delete it along with most everything else.
I never intended to defend that my actions were "perfectly legal", as you put it. I only intended to show that, in the rules of the Guild, as well as Gaia, there is no express rule against what I did, thereby nullifying your previous argument. I have already plead guilty to the charges against me in deleting the entire guild, and recognize that those actions were, in the eyes of most, a bad thing to do.
In that, you are very much mistaken in assuming that I'm looking to be excused for what I did. In no way did I state that I should be excused, only that your statement of my directly breaking any rules was unfounded, and it still is. In following with rule #11, that could easily be turned around on anyone were that the purpose of this thread. However, that is not, so I will leave it at that.
Furthermore, I did not sabotage the guild.
The defense would like to request that the judge allow the submission of several pieces of evidence to prove my lack of involvement with SuicideSoldier#1.
[]Also, nxegex, when there is an objection, you can choose to "sustain" or "overrule". Overruling an objection means that it is pretty much being ignored, or is irrelevant or unfounded. Sustaining an objection means that you will allow the objector what they have requested, or require the statement objected to to be modified in some fashion. Depending on the situation, of course. Just a tip on being a judge...[]
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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:18 am
[[Miss Karma, the Judge is aware of the merits of being the judge and being able to sustain objections, (despite the fact that you still type them). Thank you, though.]]
All objections allowed to proceed, and proof of the message being sent to Typo should be required before the message may proceed as evidence.
The Court would like to ask the DA to please name the thread which he mentions in his posts, so that way the Judge may validate the evidence.
The defense is allowed to present evidence proving a lack of involvement with SuicideSoldier#1.
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Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:07 pm
The defense can provide screenshots for these, if necessary, however does not feel the need to do so unless the prosecution objects to their validity. []EDIT: It seems I can't post the whole thing, as the quote trees won't go long enough. So, I'll post it in plain text. Again, if you need a screenshot to verify its existence, I can provide that.[] The Conversation in Question What you did means nothing. With all the backup threads we created, everything will go back to the way it was before. I still don't understand what you hoped to accomplish, or more accurately, what you failed to accomplish, and with your cryptic nature, I'll never know. What you have against the League after all this time... I suppose it doesn't matter. But as a US soldier, I don't tolerate terrorism, and all you are is a terrorist. I fought those overseas. Compared to them, you are nothing. Don't forget that. You are a useless waste of flesh. I'm not angry, I'm just stating a fact. The air you take up is more valuable than you are, and rightfully belongs to someone else. Why don't you get your a** up out of your chair and go outside. If you think the Internet is everything, then you'll never get out of your mother's basement. Gear, you are not going to effect me or anger me with words, so please, save your own breath. The reason for this is because I know that you do not know me. You know nothing about me. And so, your opinion of me means less than that of a stranger, because you assume that I have somehow wronged you.
What I hoped to accomplish is already coming to fruition. And I'm proud, though under your rule I doubt the Mercenary League will survive much longer if the others do not pick up the slack that you leave behind.
What you fail to recognize is the reason, which should mean the world to you. But it doesn't, because you seem to equate my deleting threads with someone blowing up a building. I am not some minion of Suicide Soldier, and I am not some pathetic person trying to destroy something. I did a lot to try and build that place up, but your lack of leadership made that impossible.
If you are so much smarter and better than I, Gear, then tell me why you aren't smart enough to relinquish control to someone who can care for and nurture the guild the way that it deserves? Why is it that you expect people to take care of it all for you, yet get angry when something does not go the way you like it to? You change the rules, or do not enforce them, and expect your crew to do so under the assumption that they will see things the way that you do.
If you are so much smarter and better than I, Gear, then where were you while your guild fell apart? Where were you when your guild needed to be protected? I have done something good for the guild, because I have brought activity. It is a Roleplay, Gear, not a war. And there is always a villain in the Roleplay, or else things get boring and people lose interest. I made a sacrifice by playing that role, the role of the villain, because I am smart enough to recognize that this guild is not real, it is just a Roleplay.
As well, I know that you all have what you need to rebuild the guild. All of the information can be found on most of the crew's computers, and in the old League. My plan was not to destroy it, it was to force you to recreate it. And look how many people have come to surface who never would have before!
I don't expect for you to understand, because you are far too proud to see my purposes. And quite frankly, I don't care if you see that what I did was for the best. What I care about is the guild itself, and watching it flourish. It's life, Gear, has never depended on you, because the guild and its members have already learned to survive without you. But what I've done is going to force you and the rest of your crew to do what you should have been doing all along. And I can see that this has already come to pass.
I'm sure you'll get paranoid, and be more on guard, but I can assure you that I intend your guild no harm. I can also assure you that I will be in the guild, and there is no getting rid of me, but I have no interest in trying to weasel my way into any position of power. I simply want to watch. I would never do anything to hurt the GML unless I believed that it would lead to progress, and I'm sure that this will. I hope that you can see that later on, but like I said, your opinion on my actions is the least of my concern.
I did far more for the GML than you ever have, and probably ever will. This was my last gift to the guild, disguised as a punishment. Do with it what you will, but don't assume that you can know me or my motives or what good or bad I have in me simply by my actions. You should try expanding your mind to understand those around you. It will help with your people skills. You have no place lecturing me. Only a sociopath would destroy that which (s)he hopes to help create or make successful. As a minor in psychology, if I go on your statements alone, it's not hard to see that you are mentally disturbed in some way. No, blowing up something doesn't make it better. And my leadership is not under your scrutiny. Because unlike you, I know how to balance what's fun with what's important. If I'm not around in the League, that means I have college, work, or a deployment to IRAQ to deal with. That's why we have a crew, that's why we have a VC. In the Army, if a leader can not or will not rely on his or her subordinates when the going gets tough, then they will fail undoubtedly. But my leadership style or lack thereof is not your concern, nor was it ever any business of yours. Other than that, if you're not a minion of Suicide, then that means you ARE Suicide. Or some kind of copycat who was inspired by terrorists. I sincerely hope you don't try to harm actual people in real life because you idolize terrorists and the like. I'm sick of your stalking, and I'm sick of your sociopathic attempts to justify your wrongs. But nothing I say will get through to you, because you're like an extremist in a sense. Those who so strongly believe in a cause, they don't see the flaws in their logic. For your information, the people who are currently active in the guild ARE THE SAME TEN PEOPLE THAT WERE ACTIVE BEFORE. No one new has crawled out of the woodwork, so your argument doesn't even hold air, let alone water. But of course, you probably are scoffing and laughing at my statements as your basement leaks with water and your mom tells you for the fifth time to get a job. Why am I even trying? I am indeed a sociopath. I never claimed to be anything otherwise. As I said, I don't expect for you to understand.
Pinning all of your problems on Suicide isn't going to solve them, Gear. Did you ever stop to think that maybe I thought of this on my own? That maybe the reason I have been avoiding the topic of him is because I have been watching him? That maybe the reason I have been banning people is because he's revealed his mules to me? Of course not, because everyone is an enemy in your eyes.
As I said, your pride will keep you from seeing anything but what your anger shows you. You don't care about the truth, like your profile would suggest. You only care about power, and about controlling things the way that you think they should be controlled. This is not the military, Gear. It's a videogame. Get over yourself.
You are mistaken. I know, because I invited several of the people who are posting right now. Pynkk, for example, is from an RP guild that I am in. She had not a single post before today. Many of the others were inactive for a long time. If you paid attention to EVERYTHING, Gear, instead of just what your closed mind wants to see, maybe then you WOULD see the truth.
There you go again, assuming you know who I am or anything about me. If it makes you feel stupid, I don't have a basement, I do have a job, and not everything I tell you about myself in the GML is who I really am. Like I said, your words don't effect me. And, actually, I was very happy that the members of the guild were starting to see the purpose behind my actions (another thing you would have noticed had you been watching as closely as I have), but my joy was diminished when I got the very predictable message from you degrading me as if I had ever respected your opinion to begin with.
You are no better than anyone else on this planet, Gear. Actually, your judgmental nature would go to prove that you are in fact less of a person, and you want to believe that you are above others because it makes you feel like you are worth something. You want to get into a battle of words, Gear? Fine. But throw something solid at me, anything that has to do with me as a person, not this predetermined assumption of things you seem to have made up in your mind. No. I will not have a battle of words with you. Like I said, you're not worth the air. We're done here.
That's another way of saying you can't win.
If you say so Gear. I just can't believe, after looking at your thread on "What Happened", that you still don't get it. You really must be thick.
It isn't about being thick. I don't believe your lies. No matter what you say at this point, you have no more credibility with me. What makes you think I would believe anything you say? Anyway, I'm leaving Gaia. Any messages you send after today won't reach me for quite some time. This is your last chance to make your crazy justifications and attempt to tell me that blowing up a building is the best thing for it, and all the people inside. I just warn you: you're wasting your time.
You're still taking this far too seriously.
I would recommend, for the sake of the guild, at least having an active VC before you go AWOL again. Or else the place really is going to fall apart.
I don't need to justify myself to you, yet you seem to feel the need to try and degrade me as much as possible. I just wish you could see how unaffected I am by your words. I'm sure it would infuriate you, what with that temper of yours and all.
Oh, and Gear...you've got something on your face.
Wow. The one who tried to destroy the guild is giving me tips on how to keep it alive. The irony.
Still to stubborn to see. You'll see, though. Or are you leaving Gaia because you know that I'm right, and you can't stand to stick around long enough to watch as what I planned comes to bear?
Whatever the case, Gear, it matters not. I know what I did and what my intentions were, and I knew what the consequences of those actions would be. I'm willing to deal with them because I accepted this before I cleaned the guild. You, however, will probably be angry for quite a while. Anger, you know, is not a real emotion. You're substituting it for something. But what?
Are we done here? You don't have anything original to say, and I've already said all that I needed to.
I think we're done here. I'm leaving Gaia for a while because I used Gaia to relax from the rigors of being an underpaid college student who can barely make rent. If Gaia is only going to prove to be another stressor because of terrorists trying to make my experience miserable, then there's no reason for me to continue is there? Yeah, we're done here. Then I'll keep my comments to myself. Goodbye, Gear. Goodbye, Typo. The defense will now proceed to post further evidence of my lack of involvement with SuicideSoldier#1.
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Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:13 pm
The defense would like to apologize for any delays. I was waiting for approval to disclose a number of the following pieces. The first piece of evidence I'd like to show is a conversation between myself and Darius Roslyn before the alleged "attack". The relevance of this is to show my commitment to this guild, and and my opinions of SuicideSoldier#1 at that point in time.
A screenshot has been provided of the entire conversation. The textual evidence will follow a link to the image. ((NOTE: Alterations made to the text: Typo's post color, Darius' post size [both for easier reading purposes], and the quotes from the PM, which I stated earlier were too many for them all to show up in the guild post.)) Exhibit C Screenshot LinkExhibit C Hey, it's no problem. Inspiring productivity is one of the side-effects we hope the UMC will bring to the GML. You're just an example that the theory works; now to get to where we need to be to put that theory into practice.
I'll work on a post after I read what you've written.~~~ After you read what I've written? 0.o
I'm headed over there in just a minute, actually, just came back to find like 10 new PM's while I was away @.@ People are only around while I'm gone it seems. lol
My activity isn't inspired by the UMC, it's inspired by needing to keep things moving there. When the place gets dead, I post a million threads all over the place and reply to a bunch of s**t I'd never reply to in hopes that people will do the same. It doesn't always work, but it's doing pretty good thus far.
As for the crew subforum, I realized that Wielder and I are mostly in on this alone at this point, though Nero seems to be coming back and all that. But there are a lot of things that the crew needs to do to prepare the guild for new members coming in, as in times before it has been rather unsuccessful in keeping people active. So I typed for two hours (I still can't believe I did that) on suggestions and changes that need to be made before we can start advertising and bringing people in. These are really mandatory to be taken care of before the UMC gets ready to do its thing, as if the guild isn't ready, then the project, by default, will also not be ready. That's my biggest concern, so pardon if I have a little less of a hand in what's going on in there than I had originally intended. But I've spend the past two days scribbling away in notebooks about how to get things in the guild working properly, and how to reactivate inactive members, as well as make things easier to those who will be coming in with absolutely no knowledge about the guild.
Like I said, I wrote a lot. I won't bore you with any more of it...unless you want to be bored by it...then I can. lol~~~ Sorry about the mass reply, ^^;;
Just like you, I don't like seeing the League in the state that it's in. I mean, out of any one who's apart of the Development Team, I'm the newest member (I think), so I don't really know just how active the League used to be. But I do know I want to see that place alive, and I've always put my effort into reviving it. This is just the first time any of my ideas had the possibility to actually work, xD
Thank you for putting so much effort towards all of this. I know it seems that I have everything (okay, somethings) under control, but truth be told there's a lot of things I just don't know, or even think of. So, thank you for thinking of the things I'm not thinking about.
Wow, odd sentence. xD~~~ No it's quite alright, I like getting messages from you. It's from everyone else that tends to be rather annoying when there are things I have to take care of (one of them being talking to you). I'm so good at prioritizing ^.^
No worries, this kind of thing is fun for me. I was talking with my mom about it, the UMC and the more stressful matters of the GML, and she asked me why I deal with it when I'm supposed to be having fun. I laughed, because I had been getting really frustrated about a few things (league related), and it's funny because I LIKE it. lol
The league hasn't really been all that active, even when I first joined. A few of us did a really good job of keeping it alive, but then things died again. The original guild, though, was very alive for a long time, until it in turn eventually faded away. That is before Gear made this one, though.
There's A LOT that I'm planning to do with the GML right now. I just hope I get the authorization to start implementing some of my ideas. I spent two effing hours on that post in the TOC, and Wielder replied to ONE of the topics I had briefly mentioned, so I'm not very hopeful. If I don't get authorization, I'm going to start taking action on my own and hope for the best. I've been on Gaia since this place began, and I've owned a guild since a month after that, and had it running up until a year ago when I stopped coming online. I know how to run a guild. And I blame most of our issues on crew inactivity. :/
Sorry, /rant. I'm in an odd state this evening.~~~ Good, 'cause the PM's ain't stopping any time soon, sweetheart. ^^
For reference, when I speak of the GML I'm talking about both guilds. I've been through most of the forums in the old guild (any I had access too, anyways) for a number of reasons; it started with Suicide and I began gathering intelligence on him. Turns out, not such a bad guy, and he didn't really do anything to destructive imo (you have me using chatspeak now, xD). Then, I wanted to see what sort of recruiting efforts were taken when that guild was alive, along with advertising strategies. There is knowledge in the ways of the past, and even now my research is for from over.
Crew inactivity is seriously destroying our guild, and even though I understand that appointing someone the responsibility of Crew status is iffy business, desperate times call for desperate measures. When I joined in May, people were suggesting that Wielder be promoted to Crew. It took several months for that to happen, and I'm sure it was being mentioned long before I showed up. We need a more active Crew, a more dedicated Crew to make bring this Guild to new heights.
You don't know how badly I want to be Crew. ~~~ As far as Suicide goes, I agree, not all that destructive. But there's a lot behind the scenes. There was a whole guild dedicated to stopping him, but what he did in the GML was unacceptable. It's a long complicated thing of nonsense that's long since forgotten in my opinion, though the others seem very paranoid and they are overreacting about his business.
Just for curiosity's sake, why were you gathering intelligence on him?
Yes I've read a lot in the old guild, I felt it was necessary when I became crew and realized that the current crew was hardly crew.
The main reason they were cautious with Wielder is because he was in league with Suicide for a long time, so they couldn't be absolutely sure whose side he was one. Suicide wants to destroy the GML. And all other military guilds. He gets in, gains crew status by helping out, then goes in and wipes the place clean. He didn't get that far this time, we ended up being able to stop him while he was in the middle of banning a bunch of active members.
You don't know how badly we need you as crew right now. I'll recommend it in the TOS, see what kind of response it gets, though I don't think they want any more new crew. Chi is kind of a nazi as far as that goes. In turn, you don't know how badly I want to be a VC. That would make us far less dependent upon Gear and Chi and Ubou (who are never around), and I wouldn't have to wait for approval for everything I do.
I'm going to send you the ridiculously long post I put up in the TOC. Read it if you want, or don't, but I just thought I'd show you what the issues are I am trying to address right now.~~~ His memory is another thing that causes problems. It seems everyone eventually learns who he is and that he's done something to harm the guild, but they have no idea what it was so they overreact and think that his thread was bigger then it actually was.
"He's been dealt with a LONG time go. Give it a rest,"
"But what if-"
"We ain't playing the 'what-if' game, n00b! Now STFU, and go do something actually significant."
I began gathering intelligence to figure out the best way to fight him. He'll never again have crew status, but he always seems to find a way to get inside the guild and cause some sort of ruckus. I've noticed every time he rears his ugly mug he usually begins to talk about how he's done more good for the League then bad, how he was more active as Crew then any of the current Crew, ect., ect. This usually inspires an argument, and he sits back and enjoys it.
The next time he comes around, I don't care what any one says. It's my turn at the sucker. I'm done watching people fuel his chaos; it's about ******** time someone stomped out the embers so another fire doesn't start. I believe, if he and I had a discussion, I could ultimately convince him to leave the League alone, and his memory could die away like it was suppose to.
All I have to do, is figure out why, and I can do it. I know I can.
We need new VC's, or one's that'll be active. Gear's great and all, but... it just doesn't seem like he's putting in a lot of effort towards the restoration of the guild. Then again, I don't know the happenings of the TOC, so I don't know what sort of projects you have underway, and what's being discussed.
I'll read that tomorrow. Holy jeeze girl, I'm impressed.~~~ lol What's big and scary and has lots of words? giant alphabet soup? That post. It's ridiculous. lol
Yeah, Suicide is impossible to get rid of. He wants chaos, that's his plan. It's fun for him to screw s**t up for us. I hated the kid from the beginning. Yes, he's actually very intelligent. But no, he pisses me off like none other. And he lies. I don't care what he says, he lies. And has a distorted sense of reality.
You know he thinks that I'm Gear?! lol
As for Gear, I don't think that he cares much what happens to the guild. Honestly, nothing really happens in the TOC at all. I just recently got people going in there because I sent them all PM's about Suicide's request to rejoin the guild. Now they keep coming because I keep posting threads. lol But no, TOC's been dead because we don't have anyone leading us. We can't do anything without permission, and we sometimes have to wait weeks to months to get it. We DESPERATELY need active crew and VC's. That is, actually, not covered in the impossibly long post however. I should make another thread about it. I hope that if I keep making threads it'll keep them on their toes, and at least they'll be watching the guild. But Gear's online a lot more than he wants us to know. He just spends very limited time in the guild. He made his FIRST POST in the parlor today though. lol Because we have a whole thread of everyone ragging on him for not doing anything. That was fun indeed.~~~ I'll read it all, and have three points for every one you've brought up.
That's why I'm gonna do it tomorrow.
I still think I could get rid of him. Instead of giving him the chaos he feeds from, maybe give him a taste of some order through his chaos. Hopefully, others will realize that we need to show our strength as a League, not our weakness. Even though he knows how to pick at our weaknesses so well. -rolls eyes-
I was recruited, and then he was revealed to the public like a week after, so I've never dealt with him personally.
What?! Man, if you were Gear I'd smack you, xD
If I were in his shoes; things would be different. That I know. He relies too much on the Crew, which is basically you and Wielder, and Nero during his spurts of activity. Now, I wouldn't expect two (three) people to do the work of ten, would you? He needs to start showing some effort, or a least appoint someone the power to act as a Leader in his absence.
I know he's online more often then we think. I've kinda been watching him... and Ubou, and Chi, and Nero, and well.... pretty much everyone who's on our member's list.~~~ Lucky you. lol I've dealt with him a lot. Working undercover for a league trying to stop him, along with a few others whose names I can't reveal. The kid thrives on madness, chaos, destruction. It's fun for him. Gaia is, after all, just a game.
Dude, if I were Gear I'd smack me!
Heh, so you're as creepy a stalker as I am. Yeah, I get way too obsessed with the guild redface Always have. I made it to crew within my first month of being a member, and have ALWAYS done what was needed.
Well I requested that you become crew, and that I be a VC. I don't think it's going to go very well, but we'll have to wait and see (oh s**t I'm rhyming again @.@ Damned weather report). That way Gear doesn't have to do anything, and I can make things work. This has been my plan for a while, now, and I've been waiting for the right time. Again, so many things are falling into place perfectly, this seemed like the perfect time.~~~ I WOULD have been Crew already, if Gear and everyone else wasn't so paranoid that another Suicide is gonna come along and try to destroy the guild again. Damn b*****d's ruining things without even being there!
-shakes head-
I hope you're appointed as a Vice Captian. At least something would get done about the state of the guild, instead of half finished plans and hopeful discussions. With you and Wielder in charge, and me
On another note, I may have to leave for a short amount of time. Short, as in, under an hour, above half an hour. Exhibit D is a message I received from a former member, one who had not been active for months, immediately after her banning. As well, the shot shows my response. I would like to point out that it is highly unlikely for someone conspiring against the guild or intending it harm would openly invite a member back to the guild after banning all of them. I had left out of many of the ban forms the reason, but there were a number of them that I did say that we were doing some Spring Cleaning, and to rejoin the guild if they had an interest in doing so. The reason it didn't go into all of them had nothing to do with who the messages were sent to, and everything to do with the fact that it was like 6 in the morning and I hadn't slept a wink. Exhibit D Screenshot LinkExhibit D Kitirena Typo Positiv Kitirena Hello. I just got a message telling me that I was banned from the Mercenary Guild. May I ask why? The League is being cleaned out for right now. If you'd like to remain a member, I'd recommend rejoining next week. Sorry for not giving a reason. Whew! I was afraid I'd broken some rule without realizing it or something! I was pretty sure I'd kept my nose clean in the Mercenary Guild, but when I got the message that I'd been banned, I thought maybe I'd possibly said something I shouldn't have and offended someone without meaning to. Believe me, I'm very relieved to know that it wasn't anything I'd done, just a "spring cleaning", and that I can rejoin later. By the by, is there a time of the week that you'd recommend? And thanks for responding so fast--I was prepared to wait until the next time I logged on before getting an answer. >^_^< Exhibit E is a prime example of how I helped try to rid the guild of Suicide, and what a problem his name had become in the guild, and obviously still is. The only association I had with him was a secret. However, for the same reason several of the other crew at the time were secretly investigating him. Because we could not work together without being found out, and we all wanted to stop him. It is also a prime example of the lack of trust and communication within the TOC, and an absurd and uneducated display of power on Gear's part in reaction to the situation. As a side note, Vermyn was my mule. I know that some of you will remember her. She was an experiment, to see if you guys were so paranoid at the time, that you could believe I was him. Which I am clearly not. She caused no harm to the guild, and did not even spam like Suicide does, but because of her hyperactive and somewhat grim personality, she was persecuted. Yet, someone like TP, who actually WAS Suicide (which I can prove if you want but, seriously, all you have to do is look at some of his guilds and you'll know) got off free on things, even after it was decided that he could not be in the guild. The defense would also like to point out, at this time, that nobody knew that Vermyn was my mule at that time. Moving on...I'd like you to note that the screenshot provided only has the first part of the conversation. At the court's request, the defense is able to provide a full image. The following conversation was also had between myself and Darius Roslyn. Exhibit E Screenshot LinkExhibit E
So Gear's mad at me because he doesn't believe that TP is Suicide. Wielder holds the same opinion as Gear, and I've yet to hear from the others yet. His banning has been changed to a one-week suspension by the Captain himself.
So if there are any other problems, please report them to him instead of the rest of us, per Gear's request.
-a various array of insults and comments better left unsaid-
Fine.
Wait, what? Wielder said he doesn't think TP was Suicide?
Hang on, I'll send you something that says otherwise.
This is not the first time he's contradicted himself in that respect. It's rather infuriating actually. Everyone was very sure of it until this happened.
He's using the excuse that we were too hasty with Vermyn as well, and assumed her to be him. Well..I have a million things I could say about that. Gr...if they only had a brain. 
Jeeze; Vermyn acts too stupid to be him, and I'm not sure it was ever really implied by anyone with the right to that she was him (as far as I'm concerned).
What we talk about stays between us, right? Just throwing that out there; I know I shouldn't ask it, but I'm asking just for the sake of asking.
<< Side thought; I'm pretty much Crew if you think about it. Anything said in the TOC I hear about. At least I'm someone intelligent to converse with. Don't get me wrong; love the Crew and all, but sometimes they're a Dunce with a CAPITAL 'D'.
They try, really, and I give them credit when it's due. But it's not hard enough; at least not yet.
I almost suspect Wielder of playing his own separate game,
Yes, that's exactly what he's doing.
No in Vermyn's case Nero and Wielder were both suggesting she was him openly in the Parlor, which was unacceptable. Then Chi goofed around her thread and changed the title and text and poll to something that degraded her, openly admitting in the TOC that if Suicide wanted to play his game then she was going to play one too.
I know Suicide, like I said. I can find the kid easily in a pack. I know him better than Nero does, but we'll let Nero think that he knows more. Keep them oblivious by making them think I'm oblivious. Anyway, Vermyn is definitely NOT Suicide. SHe's not stupid, either, she's just far too out of control. Suicide's very good at controlling himself. Nearly everything he does is intentional, whether he makes it seem like an accident or not. Vermyn's lack of punctuation and ranting doesn't make her stupid, but she's certainly lacking in self-control. As well, she's not perved enough to be Suicide. That's one thing that always slips out of the kid that he can't help. That, and talking about having MPD and all sorts of physical/mental problems. I'm sure we'll see that from TP soon enough. Vermyn just has rabies. lol
Yes what we say stays between us. I tell you things because I know I can trust you, but everyone else I know gets information from me on a need-to-know basis. With the way that I do things, there is hardly a time that they "need to know" anything. Save for tonight. I may be sending Gear my proof that Suicide is TP. Which can be cause for problems in the GML. I'm pretty sure they're going to think I'm his stupid spy in the TOC, even though I'm almost positive it's Ubou. Anyway, I'll not send it to him if he doesn't ask, but if he does then he's going to know that I've been watching more closely than I've let on. :/
Yes, the crew is lame. To be honest, Nero is the only member I really respect. Gear doesn't care about the guild as much as he wants us all to believe, this I know for sure. Chi and Ubou are never around so they don't even count anymore in my opinion. Klamachpin and Disaster are from the old guild, and hopefully will be helping, though they know nothing about the new guild and the problems we've encountered. As for Nero, he doesn't care about anything but Suicide and RPing. And he thinks he can decide everything off of those two things. His accusations are flung about freely, which is why things went the way that they did with Vermyn, and also why I'm suspicious that he's willing to give TP another chance.
As for Wielder, he's a whole other story. I haven't trusted him since the beginning, and made that very clear to him when I recommended him for crew. I trust in his ability to be active and to help the guild, but I will always be watching him with the Hawk's glare. I can't really get into ALL of the reasons, as I've known and watched him for almost a year now. But, even though he shows that he wants the guild to grow, that doesn't mean that it isn't for his own purposes. His comments on our way to deal with Suicide, as well, have not been as tactical as I would have expected from him given his past in our now dead SuicideSquad. His recommendations have been much along the lines of, "TELL HIM THIS AND HE'S NOT GOING TO GET AWAY WITH IT AND WE'RE BETTER THAN THAT AND HE'S STUPID...SO HA."  It's super effective? No, not at all. Lately, he's been recommending that we pretend he isn't there, and just forget about it because he can't hurt us. IDK, just a lot of things key me off to the kid not being trustworthy.
When I first met Wielder, I warmed up to him a bit. But as time rolled on, like it always does, I started to not trust him. Not just because of the things I've found out through you and Nero, which shed some light on the matter actually, but before that. It's his mannerisms, and the way he acts at times. The way he forms his posts, the things he says, the jokes he makes... I'm not saying their identical, but there's a similarity I can't quite put my finger on. Maybe it's because I think he always has more to say then what's he actually says.
Just a thought.
Oh, questions....
Why Ubou? Lack of activity? Or other reasons?
Isn't what we're doing more harm in itself then what Suicide can do (although, it's fun to plot against him with no one else involved)?
Is Nero a trustworthy person (in general)?
Ubou: Lack of activity, similar personality, as well as the two claim to know eachother IRL, then deny knowing eachother, then Ubou is one minute a guy and the next minute says he's a girl...and only seems to be active when he's mentioned. In which case I'm sure Suicide has not only a spy but a mule. Someone to tell him that Ubou's been discredited, so that he can log on and protest that.
How is it more harmful?
Nero as far as I can tell is trustworthy. He supplied nearly all of the information for the Suicide Squad and is more or less Suicide's arch nemesis. However, I wouldn't put it past him to change his mind about things, overreact or misinterpret things (which he's proven he's very good at). But I have faith that he has good intentions. We're all guilty of mistakes, so I can't hold it against him. ALso...I don't know how well he can keep a secret. Not to say that he can't, I just don't know if he can. That's one of the few reasons I haven't contacted him to try and talk about this stuff. I'd rather he go on thinking I know nothing than let him know something that may cause him to overreact. I'm sure, though, that Nero suspects me as being Suicide's spy in the TOC. He didn't say it in so many words, but a post he left in the TOC leads me to believe that I'm at the top of his list. :/ Basically, he was saying why he thinks Ubou is Suicide, and said something along the lines of, "I'm not helping him, Gear isn't, Wielder isn't, Chi isn't, and Typo probably isn't." :/ I'm not usually sensitive to things like that, but it's one of those subconscious slips I believe that some of us have. He can't honestly say that he thinks I'm not because he thinks I am, sort of thing.
Wielder is very controlled most of the time. However, when he does slip out of his shell, he's eerily similar to Suicide in many ways. As well, his writing style has changed drastically every since the Suicide Squad was shut down. He Used to Type Like This, Putting Main Words in Caps all the Time, as if He were Doing it on Purpose to Make Himself Appear Different. When I mentioned this to him, however, he stopped even though he had said that it was just habit for him to type that way. :/ IDK, I over-analyze things a lot. But it's that quality that has enabled me to learn so much about the people I surround myself with.
Those with access to the TOC are the following; Gear, Chi, Ubou, Nero, you, Disaster, Wielder, and klamachoin. Your suspects are; Ubou and Wielder. Mine are; Gear, Wielder, Chi (probably because of ingorance),and now Ubou.
Well, I don't know how it could be harmful; that's why I asked you xD
Let me deal with Nero. He and I have built a connection between ourselves since the beginning of the summer. I won't tell him anything we got going on, but I may include him in on some of the theories and the information gathered.
Typo, I hope he's trustworthy. But if it comes down to it, I'll take the wrap.
I noticed that too, about Wielder's typing; I just thought he smartened up and realized it looked a little weird when he typed that way.
I'm positive Chi's not Suicide. She was far too useful before for things he's not useful for at all. For instance, she does excellent Graphic work and art, which Suicide could never do. As well, she has no interest in playing into his antics, and is actually the one who demoted him from crew to begin with.
If Gear's Suicide, then we've got nothing to worry about because in that case the guild is already in the wrong hands. I don't think he is, though.
Just don't let Nero know that you and I are discussing it. If you have already, then I guess oh well. But like I said, I'd rather him not know. It's a lot harder to play the role of his balance when he knows I don't really see things that way. As well, I don't trust him enough to assume he wouldn't say something about it to Gear, with whom is loyalties lie.
I'm more than happy to let you deal with Nero as it is. I would rather not get myself involved there anyway. Heh, but I totally thought you were Nero's mule when I first met you,. >.< Just randomly thought I'd throw that out there. Iz not paranoid eek
I can't even remember why I posted that in my profile; I guess I wanted to throw people off. It's hilarious at times, and annoying others. Being accused to be Wielder was a shock, however. For the Guild, I really did think people would pin me as Nero's mule; similarities in views, opinions, our signature bares the same quote ending, at one point our avatar's faces were identical save for the hair. It all fit into place a little too easily for my liking. But after you start talking to me... you realize I'm not as like him as I give off. I act a little differently in the Guild, it's like my focus finds its way to the surface, and if you sort through all that, you realize I'm a man with ideas that need to be expressed, not a man who just takes orders with a 'Yessir' and I'm off.
Even if they think that; no one's saying anything. I've probably been accused of worse behind my back.
If/when I talk to Nero, I won't mention you. It'll be 'my' observations, views, theories, and the information collected I'll use as a reference tool for myself; but I don't think I'll tell him about it.
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Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2010 9:18 am
The prosecution will now extract each statement line by line and present its opposing arguments. Quote: Objection again. I fail to see the relevance in what you posted above. When the guild was rebuilt, my mule posted our conversation in the guild for public eyes to see. I had nothing to hide, and never have. However, you did, so you deleted it. If given permission, I will post the whole conversation as evidence if necessary. Suicide could have easily seen the conversation when it was posted before that mule account was banned, and gotten the text from there. The problem with your statement, Defendant, is the quote that was listed. Gear-Richie "It isn't about being thick. I don't believe your lies. No matter what you say at this point, you have no more credibility with me. What makes you think I would believe anything you say? Anyway, I'm leaving Gaia. Any messages you send after today won't reach me for quite some time. This is your last chance to make your crazy justifications and attempt to tell me that blowing up a building is the best thing for it, and all the people inside. I just warn you: you're wasting your time." This was a direct message to Typo_Negativ, and yet it fell into Suicide's hands rather quickly, as he attempted to join even before Typo's mule came back to post the conversation in plain view. The prosecution asks how it got to him. I also contend that the reason for the deletion of the thread was due to my own misjudgment in getting angry with Typo in the hours following the attack. Quote: As I well, I object again on the grounds that there has been no proven link between myself and SuicideSoldier, and his case is completely irrelevant to mine. Unless irrefutable proof can be produced that he and I are actually connected, any words or actions on his part serve no purpose to prove my guilt. He has had his trial already, and I trust him even less than you do. So, perhaps you should focus on the person who is currently on trial, instead of someone who, quite frankly, had nothing to do with this. The prosecution is not pushing to identify Typo_Negativ as Suicidesoldier#1. However, I do contend that one of the following must be true: Typo_Negativ is SuicideSoldier#1.
Typo_Negativ conspired with SuicideSoldier#1. Much suspicion of this came from the Department of Intelligence (Disaster.exe) finding Typo_Negativ to be a member of the now-closed Corruption guild belonging to Suicidesoldier#1 on the day of the attack. This guild was specifically created to destroy other guilds.
Typo_Negativ is a copycat of Suicidesoldier#1, having performed the exact same actions in the exact same manner that Suicidesoldier#1 attempted previously. Quote: As well, you had made it public information at that point in time that you were going to be taking a break from Gaia. You even made a thread about it, to which I have no link because yes, I did delete it along with most everything else. 1. My break from Gaia was public information, but not the exact quote Suicide used in his attempt to regain access using his most prominent account. 2. I did not make the decision to take a break from Gaia until AFTER the attack (the decision was prompted by the attack itself), and therefore you could not have deleted it, as you were no longer on crew at the time. Quote: I never intended to defend that my actions were "perfectly legal", as you put it. I only intended to show that, in the rules of the Guild, as well as Gaia, there is no express rule against what I did, thereby nullifying your previous argument. I have already plead guilty to the charges against me in deleting the entire guild, and recognize that those actions were, in the eyes of most, a bad thing to do. If those actions are truly not against the rules of Gaia, then why was Corruption, a guild by Suicidesoldier#1 that was entirely dedicated to doing what you did, shut down by the moderators at my request? And given your wording, other people perceive that what you did was "a bad thing to do," but not you? Do you want exoneration from your crimes when you still feel that your actions were justified? Quote: Furthermore, I did not sabotage the guild. Reference.com: sab·o·tage /ˈsæbəˌtɑʒ, ˌsæbəˈtɑʒ/ 1. any underhand interference with production, work, etc., in a plant, factory, etc., as by enemy agents during wartime or by employees during a trade dispute. 2. any undermining of a cause. Yes, you did. The remaining arguments will be posted sometime between tonight and tomorrow evening. The prosecution apologizes for the delay.
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