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Which option are you in favor of? |
Complete Retcon/Restart |
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10% |
[ 10 ] |
Writing Out GM Characters and Keeping Established Shop Canon |
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88% |
[ 81 ] |
Other, Which I Have Posted Here/PMed! |
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1% |
[ 1 ] |
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Total Votes : 92 |
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 10:18 am
While things are underway for getting the guild started again, I was under the assumption that the previous offer, of a complete retcon, was not the one people wanted, and rather a continuation of the story, with the GM characters killed/written out, was preferable.
While the talks are going on for this plot possibility, I thought I'd check in with you guys and see where you stand on the idea of it, what your feelings on the restart, in general, are, and feel around for any suggestions you might have on plot/revamps. (Though, what happens to the GM characters specifically is already being discussed: they're working on circumstances for their characters to be written out, so try not to focus on that!)
If you have any specific concerns that you think are better suited to PMs, feel free to send one my way, and I'll do my best to help.
Please remember that hiring will happen as soon as a few more templates roll my way! This includes artists, as well as folks who will help me manage the shop, answer plot related questions, and generally keep things running smoothly. ^^
I'd just like to know where you guys are at!
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:27 am
No one ever expects the Shazarish Inquisition! (Don't worry, guys, my posting here doesn't mean I'm going to come back and haunt your roleplaying like a malevolent ghost you can't get rid of, gleefully stealing half of every pair of matching socks out of the dryer before you can get to them. I've got more socks than I need! I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade, though I hope you won't mind my continuing to read the stories you guys write -- they're wonderful, and I've always enjoyed them.)
No, actually, I'm here with a question which might further guide people's responses, because I think now's a great time to be raising it!
I know that in the shop as it was previously, we always got a lot of positive feedback around our large-scale events -- Barren Pines, the Doom Tree, and Tartaros -- with mass player involvement and participation. Those same plots were all heavily GMed. However, one point of difficulty which I think was always felt by the RP managers and players alike was the degree of Kevin Baconesque separation which always existed between characters and plot, and -- because of the RP setup of the game -- was functionally impossible, despite varied efforts, to fully eradicate.
The metaplot was always maintained and run for the roleplay membership by the RP management team -- much in the way a DM might run a D&D campaign behind their DM screen. They know the metaplot and control cornerstone characters useful for presenting it, while the players play in it. The fun side of this is, well, getting to play organically. If you don't know what's coming, you can only have your characters react to things the way they really would react. It also provides for a built-in amount of quality control -- GM-run plots had to pass muster among the other GMs, and player-run plots did as well.
However, it also means that, well, it's just a little bit harder to try and get involved with the metaplot directly if you're not truly sure that you do know all the hidden details -- what if there's something else hidden behind that DM screen that you just can't see? So, while player-run plots were never prohibited, that sort of setup makes suggesting a metaplot-related role for your own character inherently more difficult to do.
It works well for a D&D campaign, and it works well for a small community or events with a small number of participants -- because the GM can tailor each plot to have a special place in it for each character who's involved -- in a small campaign, the campaign can be built to fit the cast. In a community of this magnitude, however, it doesn't work so well. People have their own plans for their own characters, and the GMs aren't always aware of those, much like the players aren't always aware of what the plans are for the metaplot. In the end, either side of this dialogue is left feeling that there's nothing they know enough to do except to try and take care of what's already happening on their side -- so players and GMs are both left feeling that there's simply no feasible way to bridge this gap no matter how hard they keep trying: because, in fact, there isn't. You, as players, didn't know enough about the metaplot to advocate fully for your characters, and likewise, we, as RP managers, didn't know enough about people's intentions for their characters to advocate fully to your characters -- nor, at our full strength of five RP managers, could we have possibly advocated competently to well over 150 unique characters. Worst, there was no real way to do this without creating an atmosphere where it would've seemed like the GMs wanted to "control" your characters. None of this was ideal for anybody.
In my feeling, it's not a system that works on a macro scale such as Name of the Moon has grown into, and that strain has only shown its wear as more and more time has passed. It's not the game setup I myself would have chosen, in fact. It's not a perfect system (not that anything is) -- and so I think it might be a good idea to examine whether or not it's going to be the case going forward.
The other-end alternative is to have the metaplot -- insofar as it's decided -- be known to the entire playerbase. A staff of RP managers can still be retained to run quality control on the plot requests which come in from the playerbase itself, but plot ideas would ultimately be no secret: nothing hidden behind a DM screen.
And then, of course, there are always options that fall somewhere between these two poles, some compatiblism between the two -- those are options, too.
This is definitely not my decision to make -- I'm no staff member, and no player. However, I do think it's a very important decision to make, because it will color so many other decisions -- there are benefits and drawbacks to whatever's chosen.
So, my question is, Lith -- what are your thoughts on how the RP itself can be run?
Also, a follow-up question: Do you think there will ever come a time where I say something that isn't needlessly long-winded?
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:39 am
I definitely think we will be moving away from the GM scheme of things, simply because, like you said, it's reached a point where that kind of control is no longer the most efficient way to monitor the RP.
Coming from shops like Shadows of Africa and other, more general plot-based B/C's, and being wholly unfamiliar with D&D structures, I think we'll be moving toward a medium of the two poles. There will be staff hired to manage the plots, or at least the shop canon, and there will still be big shop plot events for people to play in that will need to have some managing. BUT, with so many individual characters and plots coming up it seems the better option to loosen the reigns a bit, as it were.
There will be a new set up which will, hopefully, allow for more set up and use of teams and localities, giving players their own little playgrounds to run what plots they might want to, so long as they don't impact EVERYONE. (IE: Taking over the negaverse is a frowned upon idea, but being a team leader in a specific area, maybe even in a nearby town, expanding the world a bit more? That could fly.)
Of course, I will need a staff of people to help me flesh out these ideas, as well as contribute their own to the new process of RPing here at the shop. Hopefully the changes won't impact that actual playing, just the involvement of the staff themselves. My biggest hope is for people to have fun, but not go crazy with it, or feel like they're being too limited. Finding that medium, like I said, is the key.
As for your second question? I DOUBT IT, but that's a good thing. =D
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 11:59 am
Random idea that I don't see happening, but thought it'd be fun to post anyways XD
What about downsizing the scale of the metaplot? Like, rather than every senshi living in Destiny City, it could be divided into separate cities via subforums. Normally I wouldn't like this 'cause of various reasons, but we have so many people that it could work. You could have an rp manager for each city to host a metaplot that's relevant only to their city, and it'd allow people to choose whether they want 'in' on knowledge of the plot or to keep it a surprise. But otherwise cross overs for players could still be done so as not to limit the regular RP base.
I have a question on the GM charas. Will they be permanently staying as npcs, or will they only be around long enough to tie up the current plots?
EDIT: Because I am slow and was playing zomg while typing this post.. XD;; I think your above post answered my question/thoughts anyways so never mind : x
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 12:08 pm
I'm totally on the hybrid-style management boat -- it could potentially give the right amount of freedom and the right amount of control to have a team of moderators who are invested in "guiding" the story instead of "directing" it, if that makes any sense. As Lith said above, there is definitely a lot more room for expansion and exploration in how individual players can contribute, and RP staff could work actively to make sure that everything that is going on is happening with the integrity of the individual factions and the game as a whole in mind.
The metaplot can come at least partially together with player activities -- Negaversers and senshi both acting on a broader scale, gaining and losing control of city districts, the civilian response etc, etc -- with possibly a bit of pow-wowing with moderators on what this is doing for the setting, which side is "winning," will the Negaverse ever revive Metallia, etc, etc. Along with this there can be the larger RP events that can majorly shift the game dynamic, bring new powered characters into the game and so on.
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:15 pm
Will there be some sort of battle system installed? I know while I like the ideas of hybrid management style and I do hope there's still some Staff run choose your own story style events. I think that senshi, nega, cavis (if they're staying) need some sort of battle system in place.
Random a** example.
Lts, Senshis' say they start out at 50 hp. Senshi's role a 10 sided dice to deal damange Lts role... 5 for their weapon 10 for hand to hand (and this is just me bullshitting numbers) When one gets to 0 HP they're "knocked out" or have 'lost' Granted this also sometimes foils plans in battles if everyone rolls all the time and a certain side is suppose to win speically on a 1 on 1.
Captains, Super say they get 75. (blah blah blah blah)
Generals and External get 100
and then you know those like Beryl and say princesses get 125? >>
Like I said random numbers... but you get the general idea of what I'm trying to say I think.
Unless we kinda do it sorta pokemon style... >> And Each attack has a set number of points it takes a way with a dice roll and evens = hit and odds = miss.
Bottom line. Is there a way to do this that's possible and everyone agree with it?? That way battles might not be so hard to decide and easier to deal with.
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:35 pm
I don't think we need an intensive battle system, it's always worked just fine with me to contact the other players I want to battle with and decide who's winning / losing and how, and then write out the battle based on the basic plot we have in mind. Instilling a system of dice rolls and numbers would be sort of harmful to planning and conducting fights the way players here are accustomed to, especially when people want their character to specifically win or lose for the sake of character development.
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Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 1:57 pm
Mouse: That's pretty much what I'm thinking!
LP: I think we can discuss battle systems a little later. For now it's just more general things. While I don't see the need for an over arching battle system, if people want to use one optionally, there's always room to set one up. Might be fun to have something completely random, though I've seen them get pretty complicated.
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:14 am
Straight up gonna say that I hate dice battle systems and would never battle again if they were implemented. Hate.
I am on-board with the idea of hybrid management. GMs that generally are just there to make sure that overall craziness isn't happening, maybe post a prompt or two akin to the dream sequences that went over amazingly well - events that happen for everyone to react to, but nothing overly structured? Hard to keep the walls of a room up when there's three times your capacity, you know?
Mouse has good ideaaaaas~
Also I am of two minds on continuity. Because the GM characters were the most important, central characters of the Negaverse those of us with older characters in that faction are going to have to rewrite entire character bases and motivations, etc. But it would be easiest to keep the canon as it stands now.
However I also think that a little less stress on Princess Serenity/Prince Endymion is useful for senshi. They could be looking for the crystals instead of the users, since apparently in SM canon anyone can use the ginzuishou if they just put grimy fingers on it! Also developing the player characters as potential crystal-bearers on their own is something that could be really interesting!
I have a lot of thoughts and ideas, don't want to put them all here, but if you wanna ask you can lol~
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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:55 am
I have a question about current quests, accepted and applications. Are we still going to have to get our quests stamped and all that when the shop reopens? Or is the system going to change?
I ask this out of having two quests myself, and knowing more than half the raffle winners still aren't stamped and approved.
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Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:53 am
Makette: Speaking as a former stamper, and no longer having any influence as one -- NO CLUE. It's possible if it's decided there should still be that quality control in introducing new characters into the game?
If the stamping system is reinstated I would personally recommend having it just for characters who are commissioned or otherwise guaranteed to come into play if the character's already not approved from a concept contest. Doing events for Stamped Quests Only was an interesting idea, but there are just ENTIRELY TOO MANY of them for it to be practical -- even with the new system we put together, the workload is just too huge and too tedious for it to ever realistically get done. With the process we had under old management, it took on average a few hours to review each quest that was posted, and you're not even guaranteed an approval stamp after all that is done. Take that to 15 quests per page, 5 or so pages of quests, and 3 stampers... both the line and the wait are entirely, unfairly too long, not to mention there's only so much time out of the day we ended up devoting to reviewing quest profiles. So, having approval staff looking at every quest ever = BAD IDEA. If you've actually won a character, though, making sure they generally check out in terms of consistent personality, faction guidelines and RP courtesy = still a good idea, in my opinion.
I have other thoughts on the character approval process and the character form itself, but I'll hold on them until we get the mess involving current players sorted out.
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Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 9:09 am
I was also thinking that perhaps one stamper stamp would be cool? At least, in terms of approval rather than critting (that definitely needs more than one stamper on it!)-- because the second approval stamp usually follows the first one (almost automatically?) and it's a little redundant in terms of getting a second stamp!
That would make the stamping system a little easier?
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iStoleYurVamps
iStoleYurVamps
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:42 am
BECAUSE I AM ON LIMITED TIME WITH a 5 EURO AN HOUR OF A WHORE HOTEL. (With fancy soaps. How I love their fancy soaps. heart )
I will try to be quick. Never mind. I am never quick.
On the story side, I vote as little retcon as possible. Having to remake stories is hard enough, but when you throw in the fact we have so many characters to consider, along with character relationships, it becomes utterly unfeasible to ask for a full retcon. Even a minor retcon is very hard to do, as the shop does just have that many characters. My vote rests on the side of as little recton as possible, the best result is that there is no retcon at all. If the shop chooses to have no retcon but a rather a continuation, I personally think would be best. GM owned characters and things can be written out like a story for whatever end they choose, (Astraea got hit by a bus. Charonite gets lung cancer. Alexanderos is now in crack house. WHATEVS I sound so morbid. YOU GET THE IDEA.), and the shop can continue on, with no little to no retcon. While it would depend on the GMs being willing to give us one last sort of 'story' for the shop, I would think it the best option all sides. Old GMs can leave on own terms with characters clearly defined as to where they stand, new GMs have a solid base from which to 'restart'. One idea I mentioned was Space Cauldron going SHOOP DA WHOOP and making a sort of AU. BUT, this still would mean a retcon occurs on some level. But even I prefer the springboard story idea. SO MY VOTE: As little retcon as possible. If GMs are willing, ask they collab to make a springboard for new GMs and shop's base.
Also, I like Nessy's ideas for the senshi, as if word got out that the silver crystal could be used by ANYONE, you could have some seriosu conflict in and out of fraction. Senshi who might use it for themselves, negas who might also be selfish, senshi who would want the princess before crystal, vice versa.
On GM controlled plots: I vote what has been mentioned. Player make metas, with GMs only needing to give approval if it can effect other players or shop on a larger scale. Small 'prompts' such as the dream prompts are open ended for players to create off of, and major events are prompt or open based. 'X occurs. React.' 'EL OH ALIENS R HERE'. 'New school?!? LOLWUT' These events were open and inviting to new and old players, and allowed people to make plots around the plot itself. Removing heavy GM control and leaving the direction of the meta to players can be a boon and a curse however. Players can slow, drop out, loose interest. in such events GMs can step in and provide nudges, hints, prompts. ... Mouse has good ideas. Listen to Mouse. :U
On Battle system: What I saw a lot in the quest sub forum was a general ??? as to the battle system we have. It's 'complex in it's simplicity'. While dice and randomizers have appeal, they also are VERY limiting battle wise, as then control of a character is lost. If dice said no hit, how would Castor get to punch a dude when the dude needs to be punched for a plot? So, my personal vote on that is to keep the old battle system. While dice do offer a clear X happens, they remove all variables, and can lead to a battle direction in which players might not want. Due to the nature of the shop, (RP heavy and player oriented), a dice system, or a 'battle system' that is numerical based just isn't possible. If a battle guide is needed, I am sure the GMs can create a one. I made one for Bhek in the quest thread to help explain how they work and how it goes into creating powers for senshi. It seems simple, yet is also complex within it's own simplicity. ITS KINDA FUNNY LIKE THAT. (lol idk) While this isn't a cool problem ATM, an option for dice based battles might be nice for those who just want to get reqs out of the way as battles might not be their forte.
WHAT I THINK NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED: QUESTING AND STAMPING SYSTEM.
The old system and Mouse said, was slow, tedious, and very intense. A definite revision of the system needs to be made to expedite the stamping process. I am sure Mouse, Kali, and Maru could provide more insight to this at a later date.
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 12:20 pm
This is just in response to stamping. I agree that the current stamping system doesn't work, mainly because it's too slow and time-consuming. Also, getting a character stamped didn't really increase your chances of getting the character, it only really told you that the staff liked the character.
However, I still think it would be good if there were some shop critters. Maybe there could be a requirement that says, unless a shop critter is bored and crits you without you having to request it, you'd have to have a certain number of crits before a shop critter would look it over? This would probably knock out some of the less serious and/or abandoned quests. These shop critters wouldn't be telling people "OMG, your quest is awesoma; you'll get this character for sure!" Instead the crits would just be a way to point out any flaws that would keep a character from being successful in a contest.
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Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 7:48 pm
In response to the stamping stuff:
My personal thought is along the lines of a few others here- firstly, I think stamping should be kept, if only to get people to really truly think out their characters in a group-type setting, and secondly I would vote for only people who've actually obtained there character in some way may get official shop stamps. It would cut down on the sheer number to be marked, and make it easier to rush people through who have art which would allow them to play.
Sure, I think the questing subforum should be open to anyone to make any number of quests and get critique on them from other shopgoers and stampers/staff if they feel so inclined. It seems to me like quest only competitions could still exsist, but just come with a writing prompt + unstamped quest to see how much thought you'd put into the character. It would work the same with less hassle, it seems.
/2cents
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